It's here - Turkey is allowed to join EU

[WickedSmurf]

The most intresting (kinda) thing being that Turkey is yet to acknowledge Cyprus as a nation IIRC. I would guess they need to acknowledge all the nations in the union they wish to join before they can do so.

 

[samildanach]

Get in my belly!

Who next??

 

[Hotpoint]

Neither of those Countrys are even in Europe! Why is it called the European Union if there are non-European countries brought in?

Because if we called it the EurAfricAsian Union the true scope of our plans for world domination would be revealed far too early...

 

[kryszcztov]

I think it's a wrong decision, and I fail to see European leaders' real motives, apart from capitalistic greediness of course.

What will Turkey bring to the EU ? Do we really need them inside our community ? Should we let anybody enter ?

Turkey isn't located in Europe, for the most part. It's in Asia. Yet they belong to the UEFA (French acronymn), the European Union of Football (and football is THE new way of fighting countries ), but Israel also does, France even plays them for the qualifications of the next World Cup. Turkey isn't in Europe, why should they enter the European Union ? ("Because" isn't a real answer...)

We're not even sure the Turkish population really wants to join and wants to do the effort to do so. What we're sure of, is that Turkish leaders are so desperate to join that they will do everything with their laws and stuff to please the EU. Even at the expense of their population's desire. We already have examples in the article, like this law on aldutery or the recognition of Cyprus. Turkey will do whatever pleases the EU to be sure of entering the precious economical market. This is bad. It means the EU will have to babysit Turkey so that they get rid of their crap all the time. We want motivated members, not countries that change stuff only to please the others. What would happen if the EU didn't agree to start the negociations ? Cyprus would still be under Turkey's control, is that the game the EU wants to play in the future ? I'm not even talking about the Kurds, or the borders with Iran and Iraq.

Turkey hasn't recognized the Armenian genocide. I bet they will do it only if the EU asks them to. Morons. I hear arguments saying that Turkey has always stared at Europe, which is false in a way. It was the Ottoman Empire, and Turkey doesn't really want to be shown as its successor, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem to recognize this genocide.

You can see that I have no argument about the size of the population, about the large Muslim identity, or about the economical backwardness, even though they would all be real difficulties. I want the EU to take some challenges, so that's not a problem on the long term. But these are not arguments about letting Turkey enter the EU.

Bottom line : There is no problem for Turkey to have better relationships with the EU, and even have some special commercial agreements (their bigger expectations). But it's not about having a greater market, it's about the identity of the EU. Turkey fails to meet my vision of what the EU must be. Now, if we make the EU evolve to another community, with a new name, with a new purpose, the story is different.

 

[HannibalBarka]

What will Turkey bring to the EU ? Do we really need them inside our community ? Should we let anybody enter ?

What did Portugal, Malta or Cyprus bring to the EU?

Turkey isn't located in Europe, for the most part. It's in Asia.

And so is Cyprus. Would you also be against letting Russia in if they wanted?

We're not even sure the Turkish population really wants to join and wants to do the effort to do so.

Every poll i've seen shows that the Turkish population wants to join the EU.

We already have examples in the article, like this law on aldutery or the recognition of Cyprus.

Sure Turkey has a lot of things to do before joining the EU, but this was the case of a lot of other members. Some of them have still "backwaed" legislation: I think of Portugal or Poland for example where abortion is still outlawed.
Concerning Cyprus, the one that are now no cooperative aren't the Turks in Cyprus or Turkey but the greek chypriotes who refused the UN plan to solve the issue.

Turkey hasn't recognized the Armenian genocide. I bet they will do it only if the EU asks them to. Morons. I hear arguments saying that Turkey has always stared at Europe, which is false in a way. It was the Ottoman Empire, and Turkey doesn't really want to be shown as its successor, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem to recognize this genocide.

Sure the EU should not let Turkey in unless they recognize the Armenian Genocide. But you know that recognizing one's own horrible episode in history is always very difficult. I just want to remind you the french did recognize the Algier War as a war only some 2 years ago. No one within the EU members until today recognized that the Triangular Trade was a Crime against Humanity. So I think closing the door of negotiation (only negotiation for the moment) to Turkey based on that would truly unfair

 

[Reno]

Turkey isn't located in Europe

Yes it is, Istanbul and the Turkish area west the Bosbor Bay is consired europe.

 

[Britannia]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject but if Turkey is accepted as a future EU member then do the people's of the EU get to vote on whether they actually want Turkey in?

I'm no fan of the current EU but it seems to me that if they did get to vote then Turkey would not be accepted as, I assume, the federalists would oppose as it would inevitably slow the pace of integration down and the right in Europe would oppose it because of the Muslim issue.

 

[Iggy]

I'm no fan of the current EU but it seems to me that if they did get to vote then Turkey would not be accepted as, I assume, the federalists would oppose as it would inevitably slow the pace of integration down and the right in Europe would oppose it because of the Muslim issue.

I see the Muslim red herring there. I feel you would be happy for Turkey not to join down to their skin colour.

 

[Britannia]

I see the Muslim red herring there. I feel you would be happy for Turkey not to join down to their skin colour.

I'm not talking about me Iggy, I obviously wouldn't want Turkey to join, I am talking about the conservative element in Europe. The christian parties, the conservatives etc. They will no doubt hide it under other arguments such as "cultural differences" but that will be their main concern.

 

[kronic]

I know the, 'Big Three' of the EU include Britain, France and Germany, but this is presumably because of their populations, right?

No, population is not the only reason. Italy has as many inhabitants as France or the UK but the Italians aren't as influential as the Big Three. It's all about political, economical and military power. Italy always tried to become a great power in modern European history, but the Italians failed all the time. So did Berlusconi.

Turkey would have the problem of being weak economically and also not being located in the centre of Europe. But Turkey certainly has a better chance to join the big 3 than Italy.

 

[Iggy]

I'm not talking about me Iggy, I obviously wouldn't want Turkey to join, I am talking about the conservative element in Europe. The christian parties, the conservatives etc. They will no doubt hide it under other arguments such as "cultural differences" but that will be their main concern.

I doubt there is quite such a large scale Christian v Muslim mentality in European governments. There certainly are some gaps to bridge culturally and that would have to be part of the Turkish commitment prior to joining.

 

[Winner]

I think it's a wrong decision, and I fail to see European leaders' real motives, apart from capitalistic greediness of course.

Greediness is human nature, not some capitalist invention

What will Turkey bring to the EU ? Do we really need them inside our community ? Should we let anybody enter ?

Turkey isn't located in Europe, for the most part. It's in Asia.

So what - French Guayana is in South America, Ceuta is in Africa. There is nothing like "Europe" at all - it is only peninsula of Asia, speaking about geography. We should percieve Europe as a cultural sphere and Turkey is then definitely European country.

Yet they belong to the UEFA (French acronymn), the European Union of Football (and football is THE new way of fighting countries ), but Israel also does, France even plays them for the qualifications of the next World Cup. Turkey isn't in Europe, why should they enter the European Union ? ("Because" isn't a real answer...)

Israel will join either, so calm down It is only question of time - after conflict in Palestine is resolved, there won't be any obstacle on their way to Europe.

We're not even sure the Turkish population really wants to join and wants to do the effort to do so. What we're sure of, is that Turkish leaders are so desperate to join that they will do everything with their laws and stuff to please the EU. Even at the expense of their population's desire. We already have examples in the article, like this law on aldutery or the recognition of Cyprus. Turkey will do whatever pleases the EU to be sure of entering the precious economical market. This is bad. It means the EU will have to babysit Turkey so that they get rid of their crap all the time. We want motivated members, not countries that change stuff only to please the others. What would happen if the EU didn't agree to start the negociations ? Cyprus would still be under Turkey's control, is that the game the EU wants to play in the future ? I'm not even talking about the Kurds, or the borders with Iran and Iraq.

Turkey is motivated and in future they will show if they are ready or not. I don't know why should we say them "you don't have even the slightest chance to join us".

Turkey hasn't recognized the Armenian genocide. I bet they will do it only if the EU asks them to. Morons. I hear arguments saying that Turkey has always stared at Europe, which is false in a way. It was the Ottoman Empire, and Turkey doesn't really want to be shown as its successor, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem to recognize this genocide.

Should Hungarians apologize for their crimes commited in 10th century? They've came from Asia either But please notice i am not saying Turkey shouldn't apologize, this genocide was quite awful thing.

You can see that I have no argument about the size of the population, about the large Muslim identity, or about the economical backwardness, even though they would all be real difficulties. I want the EU to take some challenges, so that's not a problem on the long term. But these are not arguments about letting Turkey enter the EU.

Bottom line : There is no problem for Turkey to have better relationships with the EU, and even have some special commercial agreements (their bigger expectations). But it's not about having a greater market, it's about the identity of the EU. Turkey fails to meet my vision of what the EU must be. Now, if we make the EU evolve to another community, with a new name, with a new purpose, the story is different.

Turkey can be in fact a nice way to destroy CAP (as someone here already mentioned) and then I am 100% for it We need "new blood", and if Turkey is able to become more European in its nature, let it join.

 

[Britannia]

I doubt there is quite such a large scale Christian v Muslim mentality in European governments. There certainly are some gaps to bridge culturally and that would have to be part of the Turkish commitment prior to joining.

I think there is a sort of us and them attitude from some European "conservative" parties. I doubt that the Parties that wanted a christian reference in the constitution will be happy with the largest country in the EU being a Muslim one.
You just have to look at the opinion polls to show that the people do not want Turkey to join, now if the EU's people are not allowed to vote on who joins this little club then this is nothing more than a project of the political elite.

Does anyone know whether there will be referendums held?

 

[Iggy]

You just have to look at the opinion polls to show that the people do not want Turkey to join, now if the EU's people are not allowed to vote on who joins this little club then this is nothing more than a project of the political elite.

If they did not give us a vote on the Common Market becoming the EU, I doubt we would be consulted on membership issues.

 

[Britannia]

If they did not give us a vote on the Common Market becoming the EU, I doubt we would be consulted on membership issues.

Ah well, perhaps this will show people conclusively, that this Union is only for the corporations and the elites.

 

[storealex]

We have enough big countries in EU already. In 20 years, Turkey will be the most populous country in Europe. If they allied with Germany, their combined votes could overrule us small ones.

Also, they're too poor. Poland was poor, but not nearly as poor as Turkey, or nearly as big. It's too much to gasp over.

 

[kryszcztov]

What did Portugal, Malta or Cyprus bring to the EU?

Their... European-related culture ??? (except Cyprus, see below)

And so is Cyprus. Would you also be against letting Russia in if they wanted?

And so is Cyprus, you're right. I had it in mind but its inner division between pro-Greek and pro-Turkish communities stroke my mind harder. Cyprus is in Asia too. But having half a country in the EU is even worse. Of course we had Western Germany for so long, but that was an international matter (Cold War between two superpowers), not a local issue about which no one really cares. Russia ? Each day that passes, I wish they never entered the EU. Someday Russia may come back on the right tracks again. A large part of Russia lies in Asia, and I don't think it's Russia's aim to enter the EU anyway, just look at what happened in Ukraine.

Every poll i've seen shows that the Turkish population wants to join the EU.

It's even better when you have a source when you quote figures... I want to believe you... otherwise it's a crime (to go against its population's desire).

Sure Turkey has a lot of things to do before joining the EU, but this was the case of a lot of other members. Some of them have still "backwaed" legislation: I think of Portugal or Poland for example where abortion is still outlawed.
Concerning Cyprus, the one that are now no cooperative aren't the Turks in Cyprus or Turkey but the greek chypriotes who refused the UN plan to solve the issue.

I agree that the Greeks from Cyprus were quite lame this year. It's the UN that needs to solve such problems, not the EU !!!

Sure the EU should not let Turkey in unless they recognize the Armenian Genocide. But you know that recognizing one's own horrible episode in history is always very difficult. I just want to remind you the french did recognize the Algier War as a war only some 2 years ago. No one within the EU members until today recognized that the Triangular Trade was a Crime against Humanity. So I think closing the door of negotiation (only negotiation for the moment) to Turkey based on that would truly unfair

True. I for one want to recognize all the **** that France did through the years. In hindsight there are plenty of things about which i'm not proud of my country. Still, not recognizing what happened to be a genocide is lame. Do Turks have the guts to do it ? Errr, about Algeria, maybe I lack some knowledge, but I have ALWAYS heard of the "war of Algeria".

Yes it is, Istanbul and the Turkish area west the Bosbor Bay is consired europe.

Thanks for misquoting me.

 

[Britannia]

Incidently, does anyone know of any webite that will explain the EU accession policy in English? I'm interested in whether the council of ministers have any say in the process.

 

[Hitro]

What did Portugal, Malta or Cyprus bring to the EU?

I was against all extensions done in the last years. The EU should work on the huge tasks lying within it instead of constant expansion.

 

[Joeb WK]

Well all I know is that this will screw the U.K you can expect to see half the population of Turkey move to Britain because of are over generous benifit system.