Cairo awakens to small clashes and tear gas
I've seen this movie before, Mohammed Morsi assumes broad judicial power
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aronnax
Let your spirit be free
This is a most disappointing move by Mursi. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt that this arrangement is temporary until the Parliament is elected, up and running, this effective throws the whole revolution into a darker more sinister path.
Except the army was on the side of the protestors before. Something that really needs to be kept in mind at all times. If the army abandons Morsi, then nothing he has proclaimed matters for long.
Good point. We may recall that the election was between Morsi (The Muslim Brotherhood) against the candidate supported by the Army.
Democracy takes time to take root. It's worthwhile in the long run if it takes root in Egypt, no matter how difficult it is to get it started. The problem with living with a Mubarak for so long is that at least he's the devil you know. And you know nothing about what will succeed him.
But here you have a situation where the army abandoned Mubarak rather than all out war against their own population. And Morsi can well face the same thing. Morsi may think his electoral mandate trumps that. But it would only do so so long as didn't stretch the bounds that others are willing too tolerate too far.
But here you have a situation where the army abandoned Mubarak rather than all out war against their own population. And Morsi can well face the same thing. Morsi may think his electoral mandate trumps that. But it would only do so so long as didn't stretch the bounds that others are willing too tolerate too far.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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This is a good move by Morsi, and good move for Egypt.
A constituent assembly should be exempt from judicial tampering! Prosecutors and judges from the old dictatorship should have received the boot long ago. And there are still many to replace.
The only legitimately elected powers in Egypt were indeed the president and the parliament. The elected parliament was illegally dissolved by the military. The supreme court judges from the Mubarak era making a mockery of the law sought to block the president's attempts to reconvene that elected parliament!
Some foreign interests that didn't manage to get their puppet ElBaradei in power are the ones producing these pieces in western (and Gulf states) media.
A constituent assembly should be exempt from judicial tampering! Prosecutors and judges from the old dictatorship should have received the boot long ago. And there are still many to replace.
The only legitimately elected powers in Egypt were indeed the president and the parliament. The elected parliament was illegally dissolved by the military. The supreme court judges from the Mubarak era making a mockery of the law sought to block the president's attempts to reconvene that elected parliament!
Some foreign interests that didn't manage to get their puppet ElBaradei in power are the ones producing these pieces in western (and Gulf states) media.
Ayatollah So
the spoof'll set you free
Then you're probably talking about a different place:
source = the Egypt Independent
And if you're suspecting the Egypt Independent is a shill for the Muslim Brotherhood, read this.
Worry, but don't panic, I think.
Agarwaen
King
I agree with Innonimatu here. Although I think they should substitute the higher courts instead of declaring themselves above the law.
There is no law. And if all law derives from the constitution, so the constitutional assembly is sovereign. The previous actions from the judges were quite against democracy in Egypt.
There is no law. And if all law derives from the constitution, so the constitutional assembly is sovereign. The previous actions from the judges were quite against democracy in Egypt.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
The OP and its sources have this completely backwards.
Morsi is the only elected official in the country. The people who are overreaching their authority are the Mubarak cronies of the military junta who have taken 'caretaker' (for which read, "indefinitely and unaccountably") power, backed by the Mubarak cronies of the judiciary deciding to declare the (democratic) parliament invalid.
These are the anti-democratic forces (and they are backed by the US and Israel etc.) who are standing in the way of democracy, while Morsi represents the only "step forward" for democracy that has yet been taken.
Morsi is the only elected official in the country. The people who are overreaching their authority are the Mubarak cronies of the military junta who have taken 'caretaker' (for which read, "indefinitely and unaccountably") power, backed by the Mubarak cronies of the judiciary deciding to declare the (democratic) parliament invalid.
These are the anti-democratic forces (and they are backed by the US and Israel etc.) who are standing in the way of democracy, while Morsi represents the only "step forward" for democracy that has yet been taken.
Inhalaattori
Emperor
I think you are very naive when it comes to Muslim Brotherhood, but we will see what happens. Hope for the best, fear for the worst.
You must understand that Mursi is playing a game here. He might protect some Christians now, but what will happen later? That remains to be seen. Overall the situation of religious minorities in majority Sunni-Muslim countries is pretty much a nightmare, except some small countries like Kuwait.
You must understand that Mursi is playing a game here. He might protect some Christians now, but what will happen later? That remains to be seen. Overall the situation of religious minorities in majority Sunni-Muslim countries is pretty much a nightmare, except some small countries like Kuwait.
The fact that Mubarak ruled over an authoritarian regime does not mean all the large segments of Egyptian society that backed him should be marginalized. A huge part of the population did not vote for Morsi, and even if they are a minority they must have rights and political influence. This is how free societies are supposed to work. The fact that Morsi got the most votes should not make him an elected pharaoh.
I maintain that such "illiberal democracies" (like Venezuela for instance) are no better than clear cut autocracies.
I maintain that such "illiberal democracies" (like Venezuela for instance) are no better than clear cut autocracies.
arya126
Squad Leader
Well at least people are starting to realize that the Muslim Brotherhood isn't actually the champion of democracy that a lot of people, especially Liberals who put so much stock in the Arab Spring and the principles it supposedly shown were taking root in the Middle East, thought it was. Like other posters in this thread have said, we handed democracy to an extremist majority. And while extremism isn't bad in and of itself, the strands of extremism that combine with religion and advocate violence and authoritarian rule are usually not friends of a democratic country that likes to meddle in affairs in far away lands.
So I believe it is clear that while a harsh and brutal domestic ruler, Mubarak was an effective ally of the USA and served for the most part to keep some measure of stability in the country. Most of the time. Which is more than can be said for this 'democratic' Egypt I should note.
EDIT:
Please read further down the page where there are rumors of the Copts being forcibly relocated to Arish. While no doubt an independent source, and also while the Bishop in the article denied the rumors, this also highlights the fact that gathering correct information in such an unstable country can be rather harder than it is for news to flow out of a region in a western country. Therefore, I am sure if any of us dug deeper into other regional sources we would find some measure of conflicting reports.
So I believe it is clear that while a harsh and brutal domestic ruler, Mubarak was an effective ally of the USA and served for the most part to keep some measure of stability in the country. Most of the time. Which is more than can be said for this 'democratic' Egypt I should note.
EDIT:
Please read further down the page where there are rumors of the Copts being forcibly relocated to Arish. While no doubt an independent source, and also while the Bishop in the article denied the rumors, this also highlights the fact that gathering correct information in such an unstable country can be rather harder than it is for news to flow out of a region in a western country. Therefore, I am sure if any of us dug deeper into other regional sources we would find some measure of conflicting reports.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
An ogre savant.
Inhalaattori
Emperor
Well extremists won majority in Egyptian elections. Muslim brotherhood is extremist and even more extreme Islamist Bloc got 127 out of 498 parliament seats.
I just cant understand how naive some people are when it comes to radical Islam. People just dont seem to know what has been happening in many Muslim countries in the last decades. Salafism/Wahhabism is an evil ideology that cant be taken lightly. It has been spreading mainly because Saudi-Arabia has been supporting this extreme version of Islam. Without this Saudi funding world could look quite different.
You know countries like Iran and Afghanistan have not always been ruled by religious extremists.
Did you just claim that the Muslim Brotherhood are Wahabbist?
The Muslim Brotherhood is a pretty broad tent, and it's extremely hard to make assumptions about such a broad and ill-defined movement which includes everything from Hamas to parliamentarians in jordan or Israel. Moreover, there's not much reason to think that given a stable democratic framework the MB becomes essentially an analogue to the Christian Democrat conservative parties in Europe.
The Muslim Brotherhood is a pretty broad tent, and it's extremely hard to make assumptions about such a broad and ill-defined movement which includes everything from Hamas to parliamentarians in jordan or Israel. Moreover, there's not much reason to think that given a stable democratic framework the MB becomes essentially an analogue to the Christian Democrat conservative parties in Europe.
arya126
Squad Leader
....Maybe it is a majority in a legislature made up of Extremist elements? That seemed fairly obvious to me.
I don't believe that the entire movement is of that particular branch of Islam, specifically because it is such a 'broad tent'. But I think it is safe to assume we can at least limit the meaning of the use of Muslim Brotherhood in this thread to mean the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Now that we have that established, yes, any party that wishes to establish a theocratic dictatorship that would have a high probability of being influenced by violent elements of the religion the government is based on is bad in my book, especially when the violent elements of said religion focus their violence on western targets like Israel and America.
Plus, I would like to note that while the Muslim Brotherhood is a 'pretty board tent', the hardliners called The Salafist Nour party are hardly so broad, and they garnered almost 25% of the general vote in parliamentary elections. I don't know about you, but that is fairly representative of a country's political and religious beliefs to me.
Inhalaattori
Emperor
No, I did not say that they are Wahhabists, I said that they are extremists. I was just talking about what has been happening in the Muslim world for past decades.
I truly hope you are right that this will end well, but we must understand that ideologies that Egyptians hold are totally different than what average westerners have. There is still possibility that Islamists just only used the democratic elections to gain power and then try to end democracy and get all the power. This has been seen in some other countries before.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
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