Jan. 6th commission

I think it's going to put a damper on Trump's present call to "take our country back." People now know where assisting him in such an effort can land them.
 
There were protesters scattered around at various sites in NYC yesterday. Mostly older white people, coming out by the dozens, outnumbered by the press contingents secretly hoping for a repeat of Jan. 6. Trumple Thinskin seems to have burned up his foot soldiers on J6, at least the ones willing to operate in the open. His brand is fading. Still, considering the way his minions in the House are acting, the ex-guy still has just enough support among the militias, evangelicals, and bigots -- the Republican base to get the GOP House to expand their silly hearings to include federal Congressmen trying to overrule a state-level elected prosecutor in a state criminal investigation. So toss Republicans' previous policies of empowering state and local governments while shrinking the reach of the federal government on the growing pile of conservative policies crashed in order to feed the narcissistic fascism-loving ex-guy from Florida.
 
Remorseless1 said:
So toss Republicans' previous policies of empowering state and local governments while shrinking the reach of the federal government on the growing pile of conservative policies crashed in order to feed the narcissistic fascism-loving ex-guy from Florida.
Click to expand...

This has been true for over a century; when the Confederates seceded over states' rights only to immediately forbid Confederate states to make their own policies with regard to slavery (and the Confederacy proved to have a more interventionist federal government than the Union in many other respects as well).

Edit: to be on topic, i see the Guardian is reporting a significant uptick in online threats, which I guess underscores the above points about those willing to take direct action as footsoldiers for trump. Way less of a commitment to post about him than to go and put your body between him and the cops (or whatever).
 
Lexicus said:
This has been true for over a century; when the Confederates seceded over states' rights only to immediately forbid Confederate states to make their own policies with regard to slavery (and the Confederacy proved to have a more interventionist federal government than the Union in many other respects as well).

Edit: to be on topic, i see the Guardian is reporting a significant uptick in online threats, which I guess underscores the above points about those willing to take direct action as footsoldiers for trump. Way less of a commitment to post about him than to go and put your body between him and the cops (or whatever).
Click to expand...
Excellent point. What passes for a political party today closely mirrors the traitors of 1861, right down to its embrace of bigotry, misogyny, and Christian nationalists.
 
The fun never ends, does it?
 
Remorseless1 said:
So toss Republicans' previous policies of empowering state and local governments while shrinking the reach of the federal government on the growing pile of conservative policies crashed in order to feed the narcissistic fascism-loving ex-guy from Florida.
Click to expand...

Remorseless1 said:
Excellent point. What passes for a political party today closely mirrors the traitors of 1861, right down to its embrace of bigotry, misogyny, and Christian nationalists.
Click to expand...
Yep, he might as well just be a Democrat from then or now. Essentially no difference.
 
Remorseless1 said:
So toss Republicans' previous policies of empowering state and local governments while shrinking the reach of the federal government on the growing pile of conservative policies crashed in order to feed the narcissistic fascism-loving ex-guy from Florida.
Click to expand...
Right, the idea that smaller government and individual rights is a guiding principle of Republican or conservative politics is a myth. Sometimes they want a smaller, more limited government, yes; but other times they want a more powerful, more intrusive government. (The same is true for the other side. Everyone wants to empower government in some ways, and limit it in others. The Devil's in the details.)
 
Birdjaguar said:
That is a great summary with lots of numbers about who did what and who was charged with what. To benefit from those facts, though, a person does have to click on the link and read it....
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none of this makes prosecutorial misconduct, perjury, evidence tampering, and brady violations okay. fbi conduct wrt proud boys is a joke

also stuff like shaman's flag was considered a "deadly weapon", and given observed evidence of fake charges + misconduct we have good reason to doubt a significant % of the charges and pleas.

Remorseless1 said:
Excellent point. What passes for a political party today closely mirrors the traitors of 1861, right down to its embrace of bigotry, misogyny
Click to expand...
you talking about democratic bigotry and misogyny, or republican? widespread in both cases.

Remorseless1 said:
There were protesters scattered around at various sites in NYC yesterday. Mostly older white people, coming out by the dozens, outnumbered by the press contingents secretly hoping for a repeat of Jan. 6. Trumple Thinskin seems to have burned up his foot soldiers on J6, at least the ones willing to operate in the open.
Click to expand...
if he promises to get rid of upper echelon of fbi and doj, i will vote for him despite not liking him unless a democratic candidate also promises that. he is constrained to 4 years more at most, but blatant crimes by an organization ostensibly designed to enforce against them are not.

if a democratic candidate also promises that, i will likely give them a chance instead, since trump already had one and failed.

EgonSpengler said:
Right, the idea that smaller government and individual rights is a guiding principle of Republican or conservative politics is a myth. Sometimes they want a smaller, more limited government, yes; but other times they want a more powerful, more intrusive government. (The same is true for the other side. Everyone wants to empower government in some ways, and limit it in others. The Devil's in the details.)
Click to expand...
we could use a lot less of it generally.
 
A vote for Trump in 2024 is a vote to end a democratic republic that has existed for more than 230 years.

The idea that the leadership of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA etc. are all corrupt and trying to bring down the one man (Trump) with the courage to take on the "deep state" is an embrace of utter nonsense.
 
Remorseless1 said:
The idea that the leadership of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA etc. are all corrupt and trying to bring down the one man (Trump)
Click to expand...
they are obviously and overtly corrupt. they target more than trump. fbi literally planned in advance to steal from innocent people in california, and were the primary conspirators of the alleged whitmer "kidnapping plot". neither of these involved trump, at all. the stuff with assange and snowden pre-dates trump being politically relevant. doj has similarly been corrupt hacks since before obama took office, likely long before, though i was young to be paying attention earlier. a lot of fishy/horrible things started being evident during 2000s bush administration, though i wonder how much of that was new/patriot act garbage and how much was just the growth of the internet making things harder to hide. probably some of both.

these are institutionally corrupted organizations that repeatedly break the law and trample on rights. having pretty much anything with term limits checks on power eliminate their present form could be worth the tradeoff. trump doing more damage than 1st term is doubtful, and he seems to have done less than biden.

cia has its own serious issues dating back to before i was even born, but i don't think it's been a driver in trump to the same extent?

Remorseless1 said:
A vote for Trump in 2024 is a vote to end a democratic republic that has existed for more than 230 years.
Click to expand...
lol exaggerate much
 
TheMeInTeam said:
none of this makes prosecutorial misconduct, perjury, evidence tampering, and brady violations okay. fbi conduct wrt proud boys is a joke

also stuff like shaman's flag was considered a "deadly weapon", and given observed evidence of fake charges + misconduct we have good reason to doubt a significant % of the charges and pleas.
Click to expand...
Again you make claims without and specifics. Please list the cases where those things happened. Can you point to any specific cases where prosecutorial misconduct, perjury, tampering, and Brady violations happened? Can you point to any case where the defense attorney of a defendant made any of those claims? Please show us that your claims have some basis in actual court filings or trials.
 
Birdjaguar said:
Again you make claims without and specifics. Please list the cases where those things happened. Can you point to any specific cases where prosecutorial misconduct, perjury, tampering, and Brady violations happened? Can you point to any case where the defense attorney of a defendant made any of those claims? Please show us that your claims have some basis in actual court filings or trials.
Click to expand...
linked the politico document, but the arguments are also made in court filed documents in proud boy cases.

the hidden + deleted excel stuff containing text should be grounds for a ton of compelled production of documents, absent which those charged walk. if the courts are functional, that is. "classified" isn't a valid excuse now. you don't get to classify crimes
 
IIRC about that article the material that was hidden was not connected to the case at hand. It was just one case wasn't it? Did it change the outcome?
 
Birdjaguar said:
IIRC about that article the material that was hidden was not connected to the case at hand. It was just one case wasn't it? Did it change the outcome?
Click to expand...
not just one case, and several defense lawyer teams for proud boys have been trying to follow up on it. considering it involves perjury and evidence tampering and that the proud boys are all alleged to have been involved in the conspiracy with each other, one would expect they'd all have a right to see what exactly the fbi hasn't disclosed about them yet.

in functional courts, that is.

there are also allegations of fbi having a "confidential informant" of some kind that continued to be one after being named a witness for the defense, in essence spying on the defense team. those are only allegations at this point, but along with the evidence tampering above, this would also be grounds for a *lot* more information demanded and/or insta-mistrial.

there's a heck of a lot more smoke wrt fbi involvement with proud boys than the shaman's case. the defendants have a right to know exactly how much, and what information they have. "confidential" isn't valid now. if has even the slightest relevance to 1/6 involvement, an honest court will compel the fbi to provide it.

i don't have much faith in that happening.
 
So the Proud Boys were just peaceful tourists, there were no battles fought between police and "tourists", no one changed hang Mike Pence and erected a gallows outside the Capitol? Thank God, I was worried that what I and hundreds of millions of people saw LIVE on screens was actually true. Glad to know it's just the deep state pulling one of their false flag operations (like those make-up stories about grade school kids being murdered in their classrooms by crazies using military weapons). Stunning, isn't it, it took a genius like Trump to finally identifying the deep state. What were we thinking?
 
Remorseless1 said:
So the Proud Boys were just peaceful tourists, there were no battles fought between police and "tourists", no one changed hang Mike Pence and erected a gallows outside the Capitol?
Click to expand...
"so"

where did you get this quote, such that it's meaningfully different from my quote above? or is this another example of making stuff up/arguing against something literally nobody here said?
 
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