Jordan Peterson

[Berzerker]

it'd be interesting if he could go into detail about what he thinks black culture consists of, and which elements of it are responsible for the supposed devastation of black communities

A new book is out called "Locking Up Our Own" (I think), it delves into the destructive nature of the drug war and makes the additional point this destruction was partly self-inflicted. For years black leaders were pushing the drug war too, now some are having second thoughts. But it was the 'black' culture's response to the drug war that furthered the problem, not that 'blackness' has anything to do with it any more than being Italian catapulted the Mafia to national prominence.

This is racist. Like, really racist man. But neatly bolsters my point that people complaining about "disrespecting the flag" are just using a BS pretext to cover up for their racism.

Why is it racist?

 

[cardgame]

Have you guys never heard of black people looking down on successful or trying-to-be-successful black people, particularly the act of calling it "acting white"? It's a real phenomenon and it's not racist to point it out.

 

[Berzerker]

But thats somewhat 'universal', many of us insecure dummies in school made fun of the smart people... If white people weren't around for comparison the bias against the 'nerds' would still exist.

 

[Lexicus]

Have you guys never heard of black people looking down on successful or trying-to-be-successful black people, particularly the act of calling it "acting white"? It's a real phenomenon and it's not racist to point it out.

No one has said it is? But I'm not sure what you think is served by bringing this up. "This thing is racist" isn't disproved by "oh but black people do this thing too!"

 

[Traitorfish]

Have you guys never heard of black people looking down on successful or trying-to-be-successful black people, particularly the act of calling it "acting white"? It's a real phenomenon and it's not racist to point it out.

There's some distance between "it's a real thing" and "it has a significant causal relationship with socioeconomic outcomes for black Americans".

 

[cardgame]

That's fair.

 

[Berzerker]

Have you guys never heard of black people looking down on successful or trying-to-be-successful black people, particularly the act of calling it "acting white"? It's a real phenomenon and it's not racist to point it out.

I've seen that behavior from well-to-do blacks about conservative or non-liberal blacks... They've become the modern version of Uncle Tom.

 

[miaasma]

A new book is out called "Locking Up Our Own" (I think), it delves into the destructive nature of the drug war and makes the additional point this destruction was partly self-inflicted. For years black leaders were pushing the drug war too, now some are having second thoughts. But it was the 'black' culture's response to the drug war that furthered the problem, not that 'blackness' has anything to do with it any more than being Italian catapulted the Mafia to national prominence.

it's unclear to me what kneejerk responses to mass incarceration of black people have to do with "black culture" and its supposed devastation of black communities

obviously i haven't read this book, but that black leaders called for more strict measures regarding drug offenses isn't surprising to me, especially when you consider white america's scrutiny of lower income (primarily black) areas

the war on drugs was, and continues to be, racist in nature. as far as i am aware, that war was not declared by the black community on itself

 

[Berzerker]

it's unclear to me what kneejerk responses to mass incarceration of black people have to do with "black culture" and its supposed devastation of black communities

obviously i haven't read this book, but that black leaders called for more strict measures regarding drug offenses isn't surprising to me, especially when you consider white america's scrutiny of lower income (primarily black) areas

the war on drugs was, and continues to be, racist in nature. as far as i am aware, that war was not declared by the black community on itself

Given that scrutiny I'd expect (and want) resistance from black leaders, but they mostly climbed aboard the bandwagon because Democrats were making the drug laws. Its 'black culture' only because we see the effects more in black communities, but its more or less just human nature. Criminalizing a popular activity with a 'war on crime' inevitably creates more problems, not fewer. Mass incarceration and the increased long term judicial supervision of 'criminals' with probation keeping the proverbial foot in the door, and the monetary incentives to deal drugs with the associated risks all resulted in a 'culture' in need of fixing.

 

[metalhead]

Have you guys never heard of black people looking down on successful or trying-to-be-successful black people, particularly the act of calling it "acting white"? It's a real phenomenon and it's not racist to point it out.

Sure. But as others explained above, this phenomenon is in no way limited to Black people. Academic achievers are bullied and harassed everywhere. But you only ever hear about this specific example of it - which is possibly not even real and almost certainly is not particularly widespread.

Chalking up all or most of the social problems in Black communities to some unique failing that Black people have - their "culture" - is pretty blatantly racist. I don't know how you can explain it any other way.

 

[Lexicus]

But you only ever hear about this specific example of it - which is possibly not even real and almost certainly is not particularly widespread.

It's definitely real. It is fundamentally racist discourse. I remember it from school, and not only black kids would say things like that either.

 

[Hygro]

Dudes. No one cares about proper flag rules except Boy Scouts. There’s no hypocrisy by conservatives being pro flag and wearing flag apparel because they don’t subscribe to military flag rules, just like you guys don’t.

I think this is an important point. The gotcha involved in pointing out conservative hypocrisy is a tribal circle jerk that falls flat.

 

[Synobun]

The "gotcha" is a way to get conservatives to admit to not liking it when "the blacks" get uppity. The actual discourse on proper flag use is secondary.

 

[cardgame]

The point is to destroy their cover, their veil, to expose the racism underneath. I think everyone knows nobody really cares that much about the flag.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Why is it racist?

Number one, I refuse to believe that you are too stupid to see this for yourself.

Number two, if you actually are, it has already been explained.

So I'm guessing this is just more of your "see how many stupid questions I can ask before someone says something angrily" game.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I like games. Games are fun!
I can play too!
Ahem..
Hillary and the Democrats personally assassinated Lincoln! And they invented slavery! And Racism! they invented that too!

 

[Lexicus]

Dudes. No one cares about proper flag rules except Boy Scouts. There’s no hypocrisy by conservatives being pro flag and wearing flag apparel because they don’t subscribe to military flag rules, just like you guys don’t.

I think this is an important point. The gotcha involved in pointing out conservative hypocrisy is a tribal circle jerk that falls flat.

It serves an important purpose. If they're going to argue against Kapernick et al protesting, they should be honest about it rather than couching it in terms of "disrespecting the flag."

Here is an example of the honesty I'm talking about, incidentally:

spoiled for extremely bad language

Spoiler :

Schilling looked at her husband, Dave McCabe, who’s 67 and a retired high school basketball coach. She nodded at me. “Tell him,” she said to McCabe, “what you said the NFL is …”

McCabe looked momentarily wary. He laughed a little. “I don’t remember saying that,” he said unconvincingly.

Schilling was having none of it. “You’re the one that told me, liar,” she said.

She looked at me.

The NFL?

“Niggers for life,” Schilling said.

“For life,” McCabe added.

 

[Hygro]

The "gotcha" is a way to get conservatives to admit to not liking it when "the blacks" get uppity. The actual discourse on proper flag use is secondary.

The point is to destroy their cover, their veil, to expose the racism underneath. I think everyone knows nobody really cares that much about the flag.

Yeah. It doesn’t do that at all.

Saying they don’t respect military flag doesn’t say whether or not their internal flag logic is racist.

 

[miaasma]

Dudes. No one cares about proper flag rules except Boy Scouts. There’s no hypocrisy by conservatives being pro flag and wearing flag apparel because they don’t subscribe to military flag rules, just like you guys don’t.

I think this is an important point. The gotcha involved in pointing out conservative hypocrisy is a tribal circle jerk that falls flat.

this is pretty off base and lazy

pointing out these hypocrisies corners people's real intentions behind complaining about the things (mostly black) people do

Yeah. It doesn’t do that at all.

it absolutely does

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I like games. Games are fun!
I can play too!
Ahem..
Hillary and the Democrats personally assassinated Lincoln! And they invented slavery!

Must be put in the form of a question or it doesn't count. Something like:

How can you say you oppose racism when you approve of Hillary assassinating Lincoln?