Jordan Peterson

[Broken_Erika]

What about American Flag Underwear?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What about American Flag Underwear?

Whether this is disrespectful or not is dependent upon the wearer's probability of skid marks.

 

[Mouthwash]

I don't think it's really a red herring, just a poor argument by analogy. But whatever.

Tammy Lentils, seen here totally respecting the flag (maybe MW can tell us whether she faced a backlash from conservatives for this):

They also notably don't get their panties in a wad over this:

There's kind of a gigantic difference between treating the flag casually and deliberately disrespecting it and what it stands for.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There's kind of a gigantic difference between treating the flag casually and deliberately disrespecting it and what it stands for.

There's kind of a gigantic difference between what the anthem protests are actually doing and "deliberately disrespecting the flag and what it stands for." But of course conservatives want to keep making that misrepresentation so they have a reason to complain that is less obviously racist than their actual motives.

 

[inthesomeday]

There's kind of a gigantic difference between treating the flag casually and deliberately disrespecting it and what it stands for.

CAUGHT YA! At last you admit the flag stands for police brutality and racism!

 

[Traitorfish]

There's kind of a gigantic difference between treating the flag casually and deliberately disrespecting it and what it stands for.

In the latter case, the actor implicitly accepts that the flag is an object of significance and consequence. Whether or not they are showing it the expected reverence, they would seem to be treating it with somewhat more solemnity than somebody who thinks that the flag is a good place to casually stuff his nutsack. Active and deliberate disrespect would therefore seem preferable to casual and unthinking disrespect.

 

[Lexicus]

There's kind of a gigantic difference between treating the flag casually and deliberately disrespecting it and what it stands for.

But this is just nonsense. Kaepernick actually talked to a soldier and worked out kneeling as a way to avoid disrespect, and the message of his protest is actually what the flag stands for - Liberty and Justice for all.

 

[Mouthwash]

In the latter case, the actor implicitly accepts that the flag is an object of significance and consequence. Whether or not they are showing it the expected reverence, they would seem to be treating it with somewhat more solemnity than somebody who thinks that the flag is a good place to casually stuff his nutsack. Active and deliberate disrespect would therefore seem preferable to casual and unthinking disrespect.

It's not about the flag. It's about the message they're trying to convey, and conservatives interpret it to be that America is an evil nation.

But this is just nonsense. Kaepernick actually talked to a soldier and worked out kneeling as a way to avoid disrespect, and the message of his protest is actually what the flag stands for - Liberty and Justice for all.

I've not seen anyone explain this ever. Without context, it's reasonable to assume they just want to spit on the symbol that conservatives (sometimes literally) consider sacred. The misunderstanding is on the heads of leftists.

 

[Berzerker]

Commonly known as a red herring, intended to derail the thread so as to avoid recognition that his previous post had been exposed as stupidly erroneous.

he exposed your post to be 'stupidly erroneous'

 

[Timsup2nothin]

he exposed your post to be 'stupidly erroneous'

C'mon man, we expect better of you than a random "so you are but what about us" dribble bit.

 

[Lexicus]

I've not seen anyone explain this ever. Without context, it's reasonable to assume they just want to spit on the symbol that conservatives (sometimes literally) consider sacred. The misunderstanding is on the heads of leftists.

Oh, all our fault, is it? FYI, it's not like Kapernick hasn't explained this publicly. He has given a public accounting of his actions any number of times.

It's not about the flag.

they just want to spit on the symbol that conservatives (sometimes literally) consider sacred.

Also, color me confused about this glaring contradiction...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I've not seen anyone explain this ever.

Of course you haven't. The conservative media sends up a nonstop stream of misrepresentation that you swallow and regurgitate on our rug. Open your eyes and look, or your "well, I've never seen such" is just pointless drivel.

 

[Berzerker]

It's not about the flag. It's about the message they're trying to convey, and conservatives interpret it to be that America is an evil nation.

I've not seen anyone explain this ever. Without context, it's reasonable to assume they just want to spit on the symbol that conservatives (sometimes literally) consider sacred. The misunderstanding is still on the heads of leftists.

When people fly the flag upside down they are conveying the message something's seriously wrong and needs correction. But that was why Kaep started taking a knee, a veteran told him it was a more constructive demonstration - prior to that he just sat on the bench. If 'conservatives' interpret that as an attack, its their ideology they think is being attacked.

 

[Lexicus]

its their ideology they think is being attacked.

This is...exactly right, and of course their ideology needs attacking as it is contrary to everything the flag is actually supposed to stand for.

 

[Mouthwash]

Never figgered you for a patriot.

 

[inthesomeday]

Maybe conservatism and the American flag contain the same values in the eyes of the kneelers, and maybe that’s the problem.

 

[Traitorfish]

It's not about the flag. It's about the message they're trying to convey, and conservatives interpret it to be that America is an evil nation.

What message is conveyed by stashing your meat and two veg in the flag? What implications does that have vis a vis the sanctity of Old Glory?

 

[Lexicus]

Never figgered you for a patriot.

The left wins when we assert that the values the flag stands for are our values.

Maybe conservatism and the American flag contain the same values in the eyes of the kneelers, and maybe that’s the problem.

I mean, I don't think that's true...in the eyes of the kneelers, the flag is an aspirational symbol. The public statements I've seen make that clear.

For example:

“Last week both the Commissioner and the Chair of the NFL Management Council John Mara were clear when they assured our union leaders, in the presence of other owners, that they would respect the Constitutional rights of our members without retribution,” Smith said in a statement. “I look forward to the day when everyone in Management can unite and truly embrace and article what that Flag stands for: ‘Liberty and Justice for All’ instead of some of them just talking about standing. We look forward to continuing our talks with them on this very issue.

“No player is disrespecting our Country or our Flag. As thousands have shown in the past, it takes bravery and courage to speak and confront these issues as our players have, especially when it is unpopular with some. There is room for Management to do the same and maybe then players do not have to risk the taunts and threats alone. This is their opportunity to lead as well and will be a true test of the motto that ‘Football is Family.’”

Heh, it's funny he used the exact same phrase I did...

 

[metalhead]

Certain aspects of black culture have devastated the economic and social life of many black communities.

This is racist. Like, really racist man. But neatly bolsters my point that people complaining about "disrespecting the flag" are just using a BS pretext to cover up for their racism.

 

[inthesomeday]

This rabbit hole of discussion has been pretty conveniently indicative of exactly what we’ve been saying about JP. He can talk about defending western culture and opposing postmodernism all he wants but what’s underneath is immense racism and transmisogyny. I’ve actually been pretty impressed with the ability of like mainstream reddit liberals to recognize this, for the most part. It seems like the ONLY people fooled by his façade are alt righters who are only pretending to be fooled.