Tomoyo
Fate
Great turns. How far are we planning on going into France? Just the dyes? Enough for pointy-stick researching? All of it?
KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race
- Thread starter Karasu
- Start date
DJMGator13
Still breathing
We have started our 2nd expansion phase of the game. I think most if not all of FRA. Once we get knights in a few turns we should be able to put a big hurt on them. We are now "Average" with FRA after I captured Dijon and have killed about 15 or so units. We should probably move to being "strong" once we upgrade to knights.
Kelts have no iron or horses so we should probably be able to handle them with knights also. After taking these two out we should be able to almost steamroll everyone until riflemen and later infantry. But we want to do this quickly so we can get back to our space research.
I have started a few libraries, we will probably need to start cash rushing them after we get our knights built. But we need marketplaces and luxuries as well. We own 3 different luxes now and will gain control of 2 more from FRA and KELT.
Eventually we need to decide what to do with OTTO. Do we want to keep them around as a science & trade partner or do we want them gone (or seriously weakened) before they get their Balkan Dragoon 8/3/3 UU?
Kelts have no iron or horses so we should probably be able to handle them with knights also. After taking these two out we should be able to almost steamroll everyone until riflemen and later infantry. But we want to do this quickly so we can get back to our space research.
I have started a few libraries, we will probably need to start cash rushing them after we get our knights built. But we need marketplaces and luxuries as well. We own 3 different luxes now and will gain control of 2 more from FRA and KELT.
Eventually we need to decide what to do with OTTO. Do we want to keep them around as a science & trade partner or do we want them gone (or seriously weakened) before they get their Balkan Dragoon 8/3/3 UU?
Great stuff, Gator. France reaped your whirlwind, eh? 
I'll get it tonight and play tomorrow. I need some time to assess the new situation, and may come back with questions.
I'll get it tonight and play tomorrow. I need some time to assess the new situation, and may come back with questions.
Tomoyo
Fate
Regarding to OTTO, I think we definately need to keep them alive, but as to whether we should weaken them, I don't know. My instincts tell me to keep them in the game, as long as well can do 4 turn research sometime in the late MA or early IA and keep it. The OTTO will gives a valuable free tech, and might research part of the top of the IA tech tree, and maybe even Flight or Refining. I say keep them strong.
Great turns -and smooth diplomacy!
So much for our war preparations against the Celts, and thanks to France who kindly volunteered to act as our collective punching-bag (instead of England...
).
Questions:
- if we take France first, what about moving the Palace there instead of Entremont? When I play on my own, I often forget -and later regret- to take the first opportunity to build the second core.
- Shouldn't we trade, or even gift, the other continent to tech parity? They could research something useful while our neighbours are busy with the French. In fact, are we sure that we shouldn't trade contacts?
Regarding Otto, I also believe that we have to keep them as strong as we reasonably can.
Actually, I think we should try to keep as many civs as we can in good health: France, Celts and England should be enough for our murderous instincts...
So much for our war preparations against the Celts, and thanks to France who kindly volunteered to act as our collective punching-bag (instead of England...
).Questions:
- if we take France first, what about moving the Palace there instead of Entremont? When I play on my own, I often forget -and later regret- to take the first opportunity to build the second core.
- Shouldn't we trade, or even gift, the other continent to tech parity? They could research something useful while our neighbours are busy with the French. In fact, are we sure that we shouldn't trade contacts?
Regarding Otto, I also believe that we have to keep them as strong as we reasonably can.
Actually, I think we should try to keep as many civs as we can in good health: France, Celts and England should be enough for our murderous instincts...
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I gifted the 2nd continent to the MA in hope of picking up gpt in exchange for getting them to tech parity with MA techs but the AZT are the only ones with any spare gold. I also wanted to gift all the civs there, so that one civ did not become a broker.
Pushing the MA & IA tech pace is still a weakness in my games, usually because I have already taken the tech lead. I guess its the idea of giving something for nothing. But since we are not going DOM or CONQ in this game the tech pace is important.
So I agree that we should bring them up-to-date.
EDIT: I often build my FP way too late and usually after my second major war. Some games I'll even use a great leader to rush it in a formerly foreign city especially if there is a Wonder present.
Pushing the MA & IA tech pace is still a weakness in my games, usually because I have already taken the tech lead. I guess its the idea of giving something for nothing. But since we are not going DOM or CONQ in this game the tech pace is important.
So I agree that we should bring them up-to-date.
EDIT: I often build my FP way too late and usually after my second major war. Some games I'll even use a great leader to rush it in a formerly foreign city especially if there is a Wonder present.
Hmm! I haven't started yet. I was up in SGOTM 4 as well.
We could buy Chivalry from India for about 350 gold. We are currently spending 99 gpt on science and will research Chivalry in 5 turns. We *could* buy chivalry, turn research off for 5 turns and be 200 gold better off at the end of that time. Alternatively Gandhi will give us Chivalry for one contact. So I don't know why we should continue researching it.
We need to decide whether we want to pass the contacts around yet. Looking at the map, there are gaps of 6 coast-to-coast, so I think it's possible to cross the ocean with the Great Lighthouse and Galleys. I don't know why the Americans haven't already done so. I've seen this before, it seems the AI doesn't know how to use the Lighthouse to make longer contact trips. Or maybe it just doesn't prioritise contacts
In any case, with Education at large, we're on borrowed time with our contacts, and we should consider trading them now. If we do, we should be able to get to tech parity and still have money for upgrades, and promote the tech pace as well.
I can't play tonight, so we have a few hours for comments on the above.
We could buy Chivalry from India for about 350 gold. We are currently spending 99 gpt on science and will research Chivalry in 5 turns. We *could* buy chivalry, turn research off for 5 turns and be 200 gold better off at the end of that time. Alternatively Gandhi will give us Chivalry for one contact. So I don't know why we should continue researching it.
We need to decide whether we want to pass the contacts around yet. Looking at the map, there are gaps of 6 coast-to-coast, so I think it's possible to cross the ocean with the Great Lighthouse and Galleys. I don't know why the Americans haven't already done so. I've seen this before, it seems the AI doesn't know how to use the Lighthouse to make longer contact trips. Or maybe it just doesn't prioritise contacts
In any case, with Education at large, we're on borrowed time with our contacts, and we should consider trading them now. If we do, we should be able to get to tech parity and still have money for upgrades, and promote the tech pace as well.I can't play tonight, so we have a few hours for comments on the above.
Tomoyo
Fate
I say trade them, if we are that close to Astronomy. It will also help speed up the tech pace.
I don't think the AI prioritizes contacts, and if they send something somewhere, it is usually to get somewhere.
I don't think the AI prioritizes contacts, and if they send something somewhere, it is usually to get somewhere.
Mistfit
Deity
If possible I'd trade contacts for both Chiv and Education. Might as well grab everyones gold while we are at it even though there is only 263 world wide cash available.
Mistfit
Deity
The Next time you go on a world wide tour we will have to play a game with all of the Civ's from the places you are going. We could have a varient that we have to be at war with the Civ from where you check in from! Nice to hear from you Nikof.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I knew our contacts are going to have a limited shelf life. I was planning on trading it after Chiv and hoping that there was another new tech available to go with education. But FRA & IND appear to be the tech pace setters currently and with us at war with FRA no trade there. IND just learned a tech so I would go ahead and pull the trigger on the trade.
But before trading lets see if we can get the road with the KELT built because they have a lux we could trade for, unless we plan on attacking them in the next 20 turns.
EDIT: @Nikof - Don't forget to send one of those "lethal bombardment" to FL for me.
But before trading lets see if we can get the road with the KELT built because they have a lux we could trade for, unless we plan on attacking them in the next 20 turns.
EDIT: @Nikof - Don't forget to send one of those "lethal bombardment" to FL for me.
We'll need the road into Keltoi for lots of reasons, but if we trade for Chivalry now I'd say it's highly likely that the Kelts will be on our visiting list in the next 20 turns. That's a cheaper way to get their lux in any case
Mistfit
Deity
Karasu said:
Ive taken the liberty doing the "ring-thing" for Entremont and Orleans for comparison purposes.
Entremont:
Orleans:
There are good and bad things about both but I think that Entremont offers better lands and more readymade cities. Although if we take a couple of indian cities it may sway me back to France for the Palace
Agreed. Entremont and the Keltoi lands, with a some English cites for flavour, is the way to go. However, if we get a leader during the French campaign we'll have to decide whether to use him for a short term palace jump to a French city or to build something else.
Mistfit
Deity
Copernicus - Shake's - Smiths would all be nice
Bach's as well
A quick Summary as it's late:
Preflight - A big bring and buy sale with never-to-be repeated give-away bargains in contacts and techs. We cleaned out all the trasuries, traded contacts for techs, and gifted teh new world up to tech parity. We didn't bring the locals up to speed on techs (Ottomans were at parity anyway). We left England and Keltoi down by Education and the Zulus down Theology. France had Astronomy as a monopoly., but no one had anything to pay her for it. We had Chivalry and Engineering, 1001 gold to spend on upgrade, and we started research on Invention in 10 turns at max rate for positive cash. Sliders 2.7.1, +9 gpt.
I changed a few builds. We need libraries, so I switched Toledo to a Library as it's our highest earner. I also switched Santiago to a library so that it would expand. I stopped mining work in the far north and send the workers south, as Jaen will always be totally corrupt and just waste any shields it produces. I fired the taxmen in Madrid and Barcelona and MM'd the core to get everyone working. I switched all military builds to knights.
IBT - Several wonder builds started up of course. Keltoi complained about a couple of workers loitering with intent. A French galley was attacked by a sqquid and survived. The French cats bombed our terrain with no effect.
Turn 121 - 130 BC
upgraded 6 horses at 80 gold each. Realised Murcia had no barracks and was building a regular knight, so switched its build to barracks and hurried it for 80 gold. Moved workers around, tried to get more efficient groups - we had pairs of workers on blank tiles. A road needs a worker and a slave for 2 turns, or 3 workers for one turn, not 2 workers
Moved 4 medieval swords towards Marseilles. Galley stuck over the ocean decides to spectate as Japan and America appear to be in dispute over Denver on the Hispaniola island. A Japanese archer crently threatens Denver. Moved horses from our recent Dijon campaign towards Mistfitzia for upgrade.
IBT - Jaanese archer kills an unseen defender in Denver. A Fench cat scores a hit on our irrigated Flood Plain, and French spears and a sword move towards Mistfitzia. Barcelona completes barracks, starts knight. Ditto Murcia. Santander completes a temple, starts harbour. French start Sun Tzu.
Turn 122 - 110 BC.
At Marseilles 4 knights attack a pike. 3 retreat leaving the defender undamaged, and one dies. A medieval sword kills one pike and is redlined. I decide to cut my losses and leave Marseilles for another turn. A knght kills a French sword in the forest near Mistfitzia. A Frankish Ax is also threatening Mistfitzia, so two horses engage it on open ground before it can reach the forest. One dies and the other kills it.
Upgrade 4 more horses. 3 left to upgrade. F4 - no change.
IBT - Japan complains about our spectator galley. We agree to move to neutral waters and watch the fun from there. India makes peace with France. French bombard with no effect. A French galley leaves Marseilles bound north. No doubt full of menacing military hardware
Our workers complete the road to Burdigala.
Turn 123 - 90 BC
Check F4 - the Kelts have no spare wine to trade. Looks like they have sold it to England.
At Avignon 3 knights kill 3 regular spears, losing one hit point between them. 4 workers., 4 resisters and 1 taxman.
A knight kills a spear near Mistfitzia. Increase lux slider to 2.6.2 for increased pop in Toledo and Madrid. Invention now due in 8 turns.
IBT - France lands one pike on open ground two tiles north of Madrid. A Keltoi spear heads south through Spain, presumably planning a major offensive against France
Pamplona completes library, starts barracks. Dajorm_gator completes barracks, starts knight.
Turn 124 - 70 BC
Med Sword kills spear near Mistfitzia. Upgrade one horse. Knight kills the invading pike. Knight kills a reg spear near Avignon.
IBT - A Frnch Axeman lands in the same spot as the pike did. They are after undefended Madrid, ad can't coordinate a landing of two units from different galleys
Tmoyoton knight -> knight.
Turn 125 - 50 BC
Back to Marseilles. 5 knights kill 3 pikes. Two of them die leaving two wounded pikes for the Med Swords to kill, capturing Marseilles. 3 resisters, 1 taxman, 1 slave.
A knight attacks the invading Axeman, knocks him down to 2/4 and retreats
I have no other units in range 
. Move a couple of knights to defend Madrid and workers.
F4- France would give Grenoble for peace. Sorry lovely lady, Grenoble is already ours. They just haven't changed clothes yet.
IBT - India wants to trade TMs. We buy their WM for WM+4. The wounded axeman kills our redlined knight. Vitoria completes worker, starts worker.
Turn 126 - 30 BC
Knight kills axeman and promotes.
IBT - An axeman attacks our stack near Besançon and dies, taking one hit point from a knight. Barelona and Seville complete knights and start more. Note that the Ottomans have captured Chartres.
Turn 127 - 10 BC
At Besançon Two knights kill two pikes and take the city with 1 resister, 2 taxmen and 2 slaves. Both knights lose one HP.
F4 - no change. France still offers one city for peace.
IBT - Toledo library->university
Aldea de Ribanna completes knight starts knight.
Turn 128 - 10 AD
2 knights kill spears at Grenoble, but there's an archer still in residence. Upgrade our last horse.
IBT Japan lad a horse and a spear at Denver. Santiago library->harbour. Zaragoza knight->knight . The Aztecs start Leo's, so Invention is out there.
Turn 129 - 30 AD
Aztecs, India and Ottomans have Invention, but we can research it in one turn now with a single scientist and get 212 gold with science turned off this turn.
Knight kills archer at Grenoble and takes the city with 2 resisters. Knight kills a spear near Grenoble.
IBT - Japanese spear is killed by American persons unknown. Horse attacks Dever and retreats. Zulus sign peace treaty with France - teh allieance is crumbling. we complete Invention and start Gunpowder. Jaen completes worker starts harbour
Turn 130 - 50 AD
At Lyons -Knight kills reg spear. Knight dies vs reg sper. Med Sword kills reg spear to take the city with 6 resisters and 2 slaves. Rush a temple at Avignon for 88 gold to expand and enclose the dyes.
That's it. There's still some more of France to annex. War weariness hasn't started yet, but watch out for it. We are producing more knights than we are killing, so we should be in good shape to turn around and hit the Keltoi when we've acquired Paris. Elites are hard to come by. I'm afraid I upgraded our two elite horses when I saw we were up against pikes, and specially after teh bad time they gave me on the hill at Marseilles. Keltoi should be a pushover by comparison. They have no iron or horses hooked up.
Here's the save, and a piccy ...
Preflight - A big bring and buy sale with never-to-be repeated give-away bargains in contacts and techs. We cleaned out all the trasuries, traded contacts for techs, and gifted teh new world up to tech parity. We didn't bring the locals up to speed on techs (Ottomans were at parity anyway). We left England and Keltoi down by Education and the Zulus down Theology. France had Astronomy as a monopoly., but no one had anything to pay her for it. We had Chivalry and Engineering, 1001 gold to spend on upgrade, and we started research on Invention in 10 turns at max rate for positive cash. Sliders 2.7.1, +9 gpt.
I changed a few builds. We need libraries, so I switched Toledo to a Library as it's our highest earner. I also switched Santiago to a library so that it would expand. I stopped mining work in the far north and send the workers south, as Jaen will always be totally corrupt and just waste any shields it produces. I fired the taxmen in Madrid and Barcelona and MM'd the core to get everyone working. I switched all military builds to knights.
IBT - Several wonder builds started up of course. Keltoi complained about a couple of workers loitering with intent. A French galley was attacked by a sqquid and survived. The French cats bombed our terrain with no effect.
Turn 121 - 130 BC
upgraded 6 horses at 80 gold each. Realised Murcia had no barracks and was building a regular knight, so switched its build to barracks and hurried it for 80 gold. Moved workers around, tried to get more efficient groups - we had pairs of workers on blank tiles. A road needs a worker and a slave for 2 turns, or 3 workers for one turn, not 2 workers
Moved 4 medieval swords towards Marseilles. Galley stuck over the ocean decides to spectate as Japan and America appear to be in dispute over Denver on the Hispaniola island. A Japanese archer crently threatens Denver. Moved horses from our recent Dijon campaign towards Mistfitzia for upgrade.
IBT - Jaanese archer kills an unseen defender in Denver. A Fench cat scores a hit on our irrigated Flood Plain, and French spears and a sword move towards Mistfitzia. Barcelona completes barracks, starts knight. Ditto Murcia. Santander completes a temple, starts harbour. French start Sun Tzu.
Turn 122 - 110 BC.
At Marseilles 4 knights attack a pike. 3 retreat leaving the defender undamaged, and one dies. A medieval sword kills one pike and is redlined. I decide to cut my losses and leave Marseilles for another turn. A knght kills a French sword in the forest near Mistfitzia. A Frankish Ax is also threatening Mistfitzia, so two horses engage it on open ground before it can reach the forest. One dies and the other kills it.
Upgrade 4 more horses. 3 left to upgrade. F4 - no change.
IBT - Japan complains about our spectator galley. We agree to move to neutral waters and watch the fun from there. India makes peace with France. French bombard with no effect. A French galley leaves Marseilles bound north. No doubt full of menacing military hardware
Our workers complete the road to Burdigala.Turn 123 - 90 BC
Check F4 - the Kelts have no spare wine to trade. Looks like they have sold it to England.
At Avignon 3 knights kill 3 regular spears, losing one hit point between them. 4 workers., 4 resisters and 1 taxman.
A knight kills a spear near Mistfitzia. Increase lux slider to 2.6.2 for increased pop in Toledo and Madrid. Invention now due in 8 turns.
IBT - France lands one pike on open ground two tiles north of Madrid. A Keltoi spear heads south through Spain, presumably planning a major offensive against France
Pamplona completes library, starts barracks. Dajorm_gator completes barracks, starts knight.
Turn 124 - 70 BC
Med Sword kills spear near Mistfitzia. Upgrade one horse. Knight kills the invading pike. Knight kills a reg spear near Avignon.
IBT - A Frnch Axeman lands in the same spot as the pike did. They are after undefended Madrid, ad can't coordinate a landing of two units from different galleys
Tmoyoton knight -> knight.
Turn 125 - 50 BC
Back to Marseilles. 5 knights kill 3 pikes. Two of them die leaving two wounded pikes for the Med Swords to kill, capturing Marseilles. 3 resisters, 1 taxman, 1 slave.
A knight attacks the invading Axeman, knocks him down to 2/4 and retreats
I have no other units in range . Move a couple of knights to defend Madrid and workers.F4- France would give Grenoble for peace. Sorry lovely lady, Grenoble is already ours. They just haven't changed clothes yet.
IBT - India wants to trade TMs. We buy their WM for WM+4. The wounded axeman kills our redlined knight. Vitoria completes worker, starts worker.
Turn 126 - 30 BC
Knight kills axeman and promotes.
IBT - An axeman attacks our stack near Besançon and dies, taking one hit point from a knight. Barelona and Seville complete knights and start more. Note that the Ottomans have captured Chartres.
Turn 127 - 10 BC
At Besançon Two knights kill two pikes and take the city with 1 resister, 2 taxmen and 2 slaves. Both knights lose one HP.
F4 - no change. France still offers one city for peace.
IBT - Toledo library->university
Aldea de Ribanna completes knight starts knight.
Turn 128 - 10 AD
2 knights kill spears at Grenoble, but there's an archer still in residence. Upgrade our last horse.
IBT Japan lad a horse and a spear at Denver. Santiago library->harbour. Zaragoza knight->knight . The Aztecs start Leo's, so Invention is out there.
Turn 129 - 30 AD
Aztecs, India and Ottomans have Invention, but we can research it in one turn now with a single scientist and get 212 gold with science turned off this turn.
Knight kills archer at Grenoble and takes the city with 2 resisters. Knight kills a spear near Grenoble.
IBT - Japanese spear is killed by American persons unknown. Horse attacks Dever and retreats. Zulus sign peace treaty with France - teh allieance is crumbling. we complete Invention and start Gunpowder. Jaen completes worker starts harbour
Turn 130 - 50 AD
At Lyons -Knight kills reg spear. Knight dies vs reg sper. Med Sword kills reg spear to take the city with 6 resisters and 2 slaves. Rush a temple at Avignon for 88 gold to expand and enclose the dyes.
That's it. There's still some more of France to annex. War weariness hasn't started yet, but watch out for it. We are producing more knights than we are killing, so we should be in good shape to turn around and hit the Keltoi when we've acquired Paris. Elites are hard to come by. I'm afraid I upgraded our two elite horses when I saw we were up against pikes, and specially after teh bad time they gave me on the hill at Marseilles. Keltoi should be a pushover by comparison. They have no iron or horses hooked up.
Here's the save, and a piccy ...
Attachments
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Very nice progress on the annexation of France.
Sorry about some of the workers, I was just moving them as they became available.
Sorry about some of the workers, I was just moving them as they became available.
Joan should have known that it was not a good idea to declare war on Alan...
Great and fast warfare; hopefully we will be able to end it before WW becomes a serious problem, and before too much war slows down scientific research on our continent.
As things are, I agree that Entremont is the best choice for the Palace. How about taking Tours and Paris, stop our French campaign and turn to the Celts?
Science: won't most civs be researching Gunpowder now? Should we try Printing Press instead?
I think that starting to build libraries is the way to go. We also need marketplaces in our core cities (after or before libraries?), and we should try to alternate these builds with some military in the next turns.
I don't think anything will prevent our bloodlusty team from eating the English too, but we should probably wait for the end of the MA to do that if we want to trigger our Golden Age at that time.
Roster time:
Gator - Up again
Mistfit - On deck
Tomoyo
Karasu
Nikof - wandering around the world
AlanH - Cleaning his broadsword
Great and fast warfare; hopefully we will be able to end it before WW becomes a serious problem, and before too much war slows down scientific research on our continent.
As things are, I agree that Entremont is the best choice for the Palace. How about taking Tours and Paris, stop our French campaign and turn to the Celts?
Science: won't most civs be researching Gunpowder now? Should we try Printing Press instead?
I think that starting to build libraries is the way to go. We also need marketplaces in our core cities (after or before libraries?), and we should try to alternate these builds with some military in the next turns.
I don't think anything will prevent our bloodlusty team from eating the English too, but we should probably wait for the end of the MA to do that if we want to trigger our Golden Age at that time.
Roster time:
Gator - Up again
Mistfit - On deck
Tomoyo
Karasu
Nikof - wandering around the world
AlanH - Cleaning his broadsword
