Katrina-New Orleans/Wildfires-California

[Japanrocks12]

Hmmm. I seem to remember that the estimated most powerful earthquake the USA has ever experienced was on the New Madrid line. Yup, looking at your link, I was right.

Heh, being from that area, people always talk about the time the Mississippi river flowed North instead of South....

not the Good Friday Earthquake in Alaska?

 

[skadistic]

Just a point but it wasn't the hurricane that destroyed NO directly. If you don't remember the next morning every one was out in the city talking how the damage wasn't to bad. Then the levies burst in 15 places (iirc) flooding majority of the city. A lot of people didn't get out because the thinking was that its been hit before and it wasn't that bad so it won't be that bad this time. But in Cali. Every year the fires come and every year they burn down houses.

 

[EconomistBR]

-- you called americans racist. We're no more racist than any other culture. Racism is everywhere.

You have a bad habit of jumping into conclusions, this is the third time I have to correct your interpretations.

I said: US is racist, your conclusion: americans are racists.
"Racism is present in US society " is far more appropriate.

-- You're an economist and you don't know the ecological fallacy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy
The ecological fallacy is a widely recognized error in the interpretation of statistical data, whereby inferences about the nature of individuals are based solely upon aggregate statistics collected for the group to which those individuals belong. This fallacy assumes that all members of a group exhibit characteristics of the group at large. Stereotypes are one form of ecological fallacy.

IMO, economists are not supposed to know the meaning of "Ecological fallacy", but whatever, crucify me for it. There can be 2 statements.
The US is not racist. wrong!!!!
The US is racist. right!!! Fact, no one can deny this.
Where is the Ecological fallacy there????
Now you created conclusions and statements and attributed those to me.

"americans are racist" ( never said that), "racism is everywhere" ( as if I had said that racism is exclusive of the US)

--I've lived in a gay community (I'm straight). I've lived in a ghetto. I've lived in a hispanic community. Your point?

This sort of segration we don't have in Brazil. Brazil is racist, but we don't black community or gay community etc.

--Umm, (generally speaking) no one here in DC really cares what color the person you're dating is. Again, you're assuming folks where you lived are representative sample of the whole nation.

Once again you assume things.
Where did I write that all black-white relations in the US are judged as inter-racial??? Nowhere, you are jumping into conclusions

 

[Arwon]

Fun fact: Fires are different to hurricanes.

 

[mrt144]

BR, how do you qualify or quantify a statement like "america is racist"

 

[EconomistBR]

ROFL, well then your point is irrelevant. Cataclysmic disasters you can't really prepare for. That's why they're considered cataclysmic.

I disagree, I rate a Megatrust Earthquake a.k.a. "The Big One" as a Katrina type hurricane.

Katrina was cataclysmic as well because it caused $150 billion in damages.
And yet everybody says thet the US should have been better prepared for Katrina.

 

[Merkinball]

The people interviewed praised the help they got from the goverment. One feller said there's plenty to eat and more than enough medical aid. What a difference last time when the people in New Orleans were left to rot there for 4 days before help got underway. And it wasn't a matter they couldn't be reached, since a dutch reporter (Max Westerman, reporter for RTL4 on American issues) simply drove to New Orleans to interview the victims of Katerina ... the next day. - Ziggy Stardust

They shouldn't have been there in the first place. And this is a failure that you can foist more upon the incompetent Kathleen Blanco and the incompetent mayor Chocolate Nagin than George Bush.

Since California is home to some pretty rich white people while the people in New Orleans were poor black people. - Ziggy Stardust

How about contrasting the leadership of Ahhhhnold and Blanco? How about taking a look at Nagin? How about taking a look at the people themselves that are being hit by this? Are people in southern California shooting at cops and National Guardsmen? Is there wide spread, rampant, violent looting taking place?

But, if the charges are true that government officials did not fully understand the threat from Katrina, they'd be less likely to put in full effort. - Yankee

I'm sorry, but to forward this idea is a rewriting of history. Days in advance of the storm, the Coast Guard prepositioned strategic units, hundreds of people, and all kinds of relief supplies. TWO DAYS before the hurricane came ashore, Bush declared STATES OF EMERGENCY for Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi. The National Hurricane Center had hurricane watches up for more than 48 hours before landfall as well. Here is a NWS bulletin issued on August 28th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_bulletin_for_New_Orleans_region

Let's be clear, for the area in question there were MANDATORY EVACUATIONS. The human catastrophe in New Orleans should have never happened.

Also consider this. Mississippi activated its national guard troops at least one day, maybe two days before landfall. Blanco didn't activate her national guard troops (and it's the GOVERNORS job to that) until landfall had already occurred.

 

[EconomistBR]

BR, how do you qualify or quantify a statement like "america is racist"

Is the US racist?
Yes, because racism is quite widespread at US society. L.A. 1994, the 2007 high-school case in the US midwest, the existence of black communities and mexican communities, all point to this direction.

"The US is not racist", this means that levels of racism are so low that the US is not racist, I am quite sure this is not the case.
But if you and Jericho Hill think that this is the case, whatever, it's your country. Smoke screen all you want, I frankly don't care, but don't get angry at me for saying otherwise.

Racism is quite widespread in brazilian and american societies.

 

[Merkinball]

I'm really confused as to why people segregating themselves into neighborhoods is racist.

If I was an Arab, I'd want to live with other Arabs. Does that make me racist?

 

[.Shane.]

I disagree, I rate a Megatrust Earthquake a.k.a. "The Big One" as a Katrina type hurricane.

Katrina was cataclysmic as well because it caused $150 billion in damages.
And yet everybody says thet the US should have been better prepared for Katrina.

My question would be... how likely is a Katrina-level hurricane? I was under the impression that it happens w/ some frequency and what made Katrina as horrible as it was were 2 mitigating factors:
1. It hit a massive urban area right on the nose.
2. That area was under-prepared for it. Remember, there were lots of reports, etc... predicting what would happen.

In contrast, a 9.+ earthquake on the continent of the US has happened once in several centuries. Additionally, at least in CA, building standards are set for a very high level earthquake (not sure what it is, exactly).

TBH, I'm not even sure what we're discussing at this point.

 

[IamJohn]

I disagree, I rate a Megatrust Earthquake a.k.a. "The Big One" as a Katrina type hurricane.

Katrina was cataclysmic as well because it caused $150 billion in damages.
And yet everybody says thet the US should have been better prepared for Katrina.

Katrina was cataclysmic only because those in authority didn't want to spend the money on proper protection and preparation. They hadn't seen what a bad hurricane can do personally, so they didn't do much to protect the city's dikes and emergency responses. CA on the other hand has to deal with this type of thing on a fairly often basis, even if it isn't usually as bad as this one is.

 

[joycem10]

Doesnt Southern Cali have a large hispanic migrant population? Shouldnt the evil racists be using the fires to beat down the Mexicans like they did the NO blacks?

 

[JerichoHill]

@@EconomistBR;6084198]Is the US racist?
Yes, because racism is quite widespread at US society. L.A. 1994, the 2007 high-school case in the US midwest, the existence of black communities and mexican communities, all point to this direction.

Firstly, examples like that are cherry-picking. We can find such examples in every nation. Racism isn't just a US phenomenon, its a global one. To paint the US as a whole as racist is inflammatory, especially to those of us who work to ensure civil rights amongst all citizens.


"The US is not racist", this means that levels of racism are so low that the US is not racist, I am quite sure this is not the case.
--That is not implied (the reverse in what you say). When you say the US is racist, you paint the society with a broad brush.


IMO, economists are not supposed to know the meaning of "Ecological fallacy", but whatever, crucify me for it.
--This is a fairly basic problem in statistical analysis, normally taught to undergraduate students. Inferring individual behavior from aggregated data, that isn't involved in economics. HA!

There can be 2 statements.
The US is not racist. wrong!!!!
The US is racist. right!!! Fact, no one can deny this.
Where is the Ecological fallacy there????
--Both statements are wrong. There are individuals in the US who are racist and individuals who are not. Again you're paint with a wide brush and I do not appreciate it and I view that as very inflammatory.

 

[JerichoHill]

TBH, I'm not even sure what we're discussing at this point.

Im not sure either, but we're agreeing again. Scary

 

[JerichoHill]

You have a bad habit of jumping into conclusions, this is the third time I have to correct your interpretations.

You speak as if you're the old-timer here and I'm the newbie. Perhaps if I am concluding something it is not that I am jumping to conclusion but because of the matter in which you present it.

Note that I was one among many who interpreted your statements as misleading and insulting.

 

[luiz]

oh...ok. So that's the problem...ok, you are right.
By US is racist I meant that racism is quite widespread in US society.

By Brazil is racist, I meant that racism is quite widespread in Brazilian society, with this difference: "a white racist prefers the friendship of a rich black than a poor white". I didn't see this in the US.

Who said Brazil is racist? Are you a member of the PT? Because all you seem to know how to do is repeat their mantras.

Racism is not widespread at all in the brazilian society; in fact I've never been to a country where racism is less prevalent than here.

We are told that we are racist by the criminals of the PT in order to justify their racist AA policies.

 

[MobBoss]

Who said Brazil is racist? Are you a member of the PT? Because all you seem to know how to do is repeat their mantras.

Racism is not widespread at all in the brazilian society; in fact I've never been to a country where racism is less prevalent than here.

We are told that we are racist by the criminals of the PT in order to justify their racist AA policies.

The point is, EVERY country has its racists and racism to some extent. Living where I do in the USA I would also say that racism isnt widespread in the USA either....but it does exist. My reply to this fact is......so what? AND, what the heck does it have to do with natural disasters?

 

[Phlegmak]

Help me out here. I noticed something last evening and this morning. A reporter was interviewing people who fled the fires to a stadium. These people were told to abandon the area and didn't because they thought the fires wouldn't reach them. Eventually it did, they fled to the stadium.

Deja Vu. Only the interview went a little different than last time in New Orleans. The people interviewed praised the help they got from the goverment. One feller said there's plenty to eat and more than enough medical aid. What a difference last time when the people in New Orleans were left to rot there for 4 days before help got underway. And it wasn't a matter they couldn't be reached, since a dutch reporter (Max Westerman, reporter for RTL4 on American issues) simply drove to New Orleans to interview the victims of Katerina ... the next day.

So, I'm feeling myself jumping to conclusions. Since California is home to some pretty rich white people while the people in New Orleans were poor black people. Loaded words enter my mind. I'm reminding myself not to become the loony left wing parody some paint us to be, and shout: Racism! Another part of me wants to believe they (the gov) got smart after the Katerina disaster and made sure to not . .. .. .. . up twice. But geverments getting smart is even harder to swallow than accepting that racism simply is still very actual and only in a dormant state untill the feces hits the airco.

This nudges me towards the loonybin that is the racism-shouting left. Only without the shouting. Hell, I don't even dare to make a topic saying: This is racist because I'm afraid of making a fool of myself. I too have been brainwashed not to use the R-word. But that taboo on it doesn't mean it's really gone. So tell me I'm wrong. And tell me why I'm wrong. Because I want to be wrong. Prevent me from falling of the edge on the left side of the sensible field.

I think you're jumping to the wrong conclusions.

I think it's just a single occurrence where the US government looked particularly bad. How many other times have blacks been in trouble when the government actually did help them? There have been countless hurricanes hitting Florida over the last few years. None of them have resulted in a massive number of people sitting in some place to wait for the government whether they were black or not.

In my opinion, the Katrina debacle had nothing to do with race in any way.

 

[EconomistBR]

Firstly, examples like that are cherry-picking. We can find such examples in every nation. Racism isn't just a US phenomenon, its a global one. To paint the US as a whole as racist is inflammatory, especially to those of us who work to ensure civil rights amongst all citizens.

Again, jumping into conclusions: "Racism isn't just a US phenomenon, its a global one." I never even indicated that racism was just a US phenomenon.

It's is not inflammatory, unless you are sentisitive about the subject.
Is the US racist?
Yes? I've stated my reasons.
No? Please state your reasons.

--That is not implied (the reverse in what you say). When you say the US is racist, you paint the society with a broad brush.

Yes, I agree, in general US society is racist. I've stated my reasons to justify this postion.

--Both statements are wrong. There are individuals in the US who are racist and individuals who are not. Again you're paint with a wide brush and I do not appreciate it and I view that as very inflammatory.

Is Brazil corrupt? Yes
Is Russia Xenophobic? Yes, are all Russians xenophobic? Of course not

Is the US rich? Yes, are all Americans rich ? Of course not
In general US society is rich.
Are you going to dispute that the US is rich? Are you???

You speak as if you're the old-timer here and I'm the newbie. Perhaps if I am concluding something it is not that I am jumping to conclusion but because of the matter in which you present it.

Note that I was one among many who interpreted your statements as misleading and insulting.

The notions of "old-timers" and "newbie" are useless and irrelevant.

You were the only to interpret that statement as insulting, the only one. Many simply disgreed with me, others agreed with me.

 

[EconomistBR]

Who said Brazil is racist? Are you a member of the PT? Because all you seem to know how to do is repeat their mantras.

Oh, boy....

We are told that we are racist by the criminals of the PT in order to justify their racist AA policies.

Dear God....