KoS4 - Something more casual (?)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
The roster, just in case.
1. kossin
2. Stochastic
3. Mutineer
4. mlinneak
5. timmy827 - Just played
6. Tatran - UP
7. babybluepants - On deck
Tatran hasn't been around for a few days (I'm assuming Easter). Hopefully we get an ETA from him today or tomorrow.
1. kossin
2. Stochastic
3. Mutineer
4. mlinneak
5. timmy827 - Just played
6. Tatran - UP
7. babybluepants - On deck
Tatran hasn't been around for a few days (I'm assuming Easter). Hopefully we get an ETA from him today or tomorrow.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Maybe send him a PM to check up?
Research : Aesthetics
Maybe, we can get Mathematics, Alphabet, Currency and Monarchy for it.
We lack 2 cheap techs for Monarchy.
Hadrumetum has the best production to build a wonder.
We only have a discount on the Parthenon.
The settler should found a city on the dyes spot to get gold and gems?
Try to capture Chinook, it has 4 archers and is on a hill.
Carthage will build another settler.
There's a good spot above France to claim 5 resources.
At last some more scouting in the east to locate Pacal and Joao, so open borders will bring in more commerce.
When there's a consensus I could play today.
Maybe, we can get Mathematics, Alphabet, Currency and Monarchy for it.
We lack 2 cheap techs for Monarchy.
Hadrumetum has the best production to build a wonder.
We only have a discount on the Parthenon.
The settler should found a city on the dyes spot to get gold and gems?
Try to capture Chinook, it has 4 archers and is on a hill.
Carthage will build another settler.
There's a good spot above France to claim 5 resources.
At last some more scouting in the east to locate Pacal and Joao, so open borders will bring in more commerce.
When there's a consensus I could play today.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Could we maybe get Poly and Math for Aesthetics? Then we would be quite close to Monarchy and we want it anyways for GLib.
Sounds good.
I think I prefer timmy's red dot. It starts off with food in first ring and is a better blocker in case Mansa gets some funny ideas.
Totally, bring the boots of civilisation down on their necks! It is the only chance we'll get to invade stuff
While I agree that there are several spots to the north of Nappy that we should grab (one for each fish I'd say), I think they can wait a bit longer. If we have sufficient military units I'd agree to a settler, but for the Dye spot you pointed out earlier.
Scouting is always good.
I agree, it has wheat + gems in the first ring.
timmy827
King
I also prefer my red dot
I'm not too sure about the spot north of Nappy, it is quite safe if we keep the choke on him, has 5 resources (although one of them we won't have the tech to use anytime soon) but no other land tiles. Will make a decent city but perhaps expansion in the SW should be higher priority?
Parthenon - I really don't know if this is wise even with marble. Always regarded it as a nonessential wonder, and we still have land to claim; I would prefer to keep doing things to aid expansion (workers I guess, we temporarily have a surplus but will have 2 more new cities in a few turns, and possibly 2 more by end of Tatran's set). Also, if economy continues to crash, Hadru building research is good. Or Parthenon partway with the intention of failure cash (did 3.19 change something, do we still get the marble bonus on failure cash?)
Normally I'd make another argument for whipping the settler out of Carthage, but here we need those cottages worked every turn in order to make our tech goals before $ runs out.
WFYABTA limits of the relevant foes (with the 40% bonus for Emperor added):
Pacal, Joao 7
Hammy 14
Mansa 28 (god, I love this guy).
With two tightwads, I'm a little reluctant to trade for Polytheism, but our research outlook could be really dire too. Any other opinions?
The tech trading is a bit tricky... Not sure we can get great value all-around. Part of the reason I don't like self-teching IW. I typically wouldn't trade for Poly, but I have no problem with it here. We're very low on beakers, and GLib would be nice. I think we should probably align with Pacal/Ham and start working on that soon. Pacal can be friendly fairly quickly, once we get Monarchy. I'd be inclined to give MM a good tech deal in that case, to offset the religion minus.
It's unfortunate that we haven't scouted the coastline. We should get Sailing soon (maybe in this round of trades), and it would be nice to get insta-TR's with the southern cities. Can't quite tell if we can spare a couple of chariots to scout that out.
Definitely no Parthenon, unless we can really spare some hammers for marble-cash.
Stating the obvious, but be careful with the Chinook capture. We don't wanna come up short and have Zara's archer clean up.
I kinda wish we could build a couple more libraries soon. Not sure we can spare the production?
Do we need a barracks in Hippo? Don't see us pushing many units out of there. I can see we have nothing too useful to build there... Maybe we should at least run a scientist or two soon. A few hammers into walls, for a quick whip in case of some future DOW maybe?
It's unfortunate that we haven't scouted the coastline. We should get Sailing soon (maybe in this round of trades), and it would be nice to get insta-TR's with the southern cities. Can't quite tell if we can spare a couple of chariots to scout that out.
Definitely no Parthenon, unless we can really spare some hammers for marble-cash.
Stating the obvious, but be careful with the Chinook capture. We don't wanna come up short and have Zara's archer clean up.
I kinda wish we could build a couple more libraries soon. Not sure we can spare the production?
Do we need a barracks in Hippo? Don't see us pushing many units out of there. I can see we have nothing too useful to build there... Maybe we should at least run a scientist or two soon. A few hammers into walls, for a quick whip in case of some future DOW maybe?
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Does WFTYABTA count with vassals? Normally whenever I take vassals it is just to speed up a conquest win so either I'm not teching or they don't have interesting techs. But in this variant I'd expect the vassals to keep up with the rest of the pack. So if it does not get counted for them we could probably be a bit looser with our trades than normal.
I'd agree to put Parthenon in Hadrumetum. Just to point it out, it could also work in Hippo if we swap the Marble to it and chop 2 Mathematic-forests (180 hammers worth). The advantage would be additional culture on the iron tile.
I'd keep expanding but we're already pretty stretched economically so work on economy can't hurt. Worst come to worst we'll get a good dump of failure gold.
TGL is going in Carthage.
Trades: let's make sure we get Mathematics as only 2 civs have it atm. I usually don't trade for small techs but it it can pay off (Sailing), perhaps 1 exception can be made.
Alphabet should be second but I'm not convinced we'll be able to get Monarchy in a trade just now. We might be able to but if the AIs trade in between them before we're ready to, it won't be available. If we can get Priesthood and Sailing in a trade it has better chances of working as we'll have to press hard on Literature next.
The spawnbusting warrior by Hadrum is missing 1 tile to the west. Unfortunately we can only get both by moving him outside the borders (1gpt).
OB with Joao and Pacal are only going to be beneficial post-sailing so it doesn't really matter to find them right now. Exploring the peninsula to find other barb cities however might pay off upon capture for the extra gold.
Agree with red dot. Get an Axe/sword near the 5-resource area and kill any incoming settler party.
I'd keep expanding but we're already pretty stretched economically so work on economy can't hurt. Worst come to worst we'll get a good dump of failure gold.
TGL is going in Carthage.
Trades: let's make sure we get Mathematics as only 2 civs have it atm. I usually don't trade for small techs but it it can pay off (Sailing), perhaps 1 exception can be made.
Alphabet should be second but I'm not convinced we'll be able to get Monarchy in a trade just now. We might be able to but if the AIs trade in between them before we're ready to, it won't be available. If we can get Priesthood and Sailing in a trade it has better chances of working as we'll have to press hard on Literature next.
The spawnbusting warrior by Hadrum is missing 1 tile to the west. Unfortunately we can only get both by moving him outside the borders (1gpt).
OB with Joao and Pacal are only going to be beneficial post-sailing so it doesn't really matter to find them right now. Exploring the peninsula to find other barb cities however might pay off upon capture for the extra gold.
Agree with red dot. Get an Axe/sword near the 5-resource area and kill any incoming settler party.
timmy827
King
So we have kossin, Stochasitc, Tatran in favor of Parthenon, me and BBP opposed. Fine with losing a vote but since it's close I would like the opinion of mlinneak and Mutineer.
@kossin - I thought we had been discussing Zhou as GP farm? is TGL in Carthage because we are changing the GP farm, or just out fear of losing it?
Also, good catch on the warrior, sorry about that.
@kossin - I thought we had been discussing Zhou as GP farm? is TGL in Carthage because we are changing the GP farm, or just out fear of losing it?
Also, good catch on the warrior, sorry about that.
Zhou has no production to speak of atm. It needs a library to even start on TGL. Most likely that won't be in before Literature is finished and we need to start it ASAP in fear of losing it. We're really going to need our GPP to bulb us out of this hole, which is why I voted in favor of Parthenon.
Zhou can be a secondary GP farm (To TGL+Carthage) and pick up the duty full time after NE is built there.
At the very least, we should get failure gold from Parthenon if we decide we don't want it. Much better conversion than building science.
If no other barb cities show up, we'll have a handful of spare troops to patrol Zaroleon. We can still build Parthenon while growing up, switching to a settler and whipping it into Parth.
Zhou can be a secondary GP farm (To TGL+Carthage) and pick up the duty full time after NE is built there.
At the very least, we should get failure gold from Parthenon if we decide we don't want it. Much better conversion than building science.
If no other barb cities show up, we'll have a handful of spare troops to patrol Zaroleon. We can still build Parthenon while growing up, switching to a settler and whipping it into Parth.
Personally I felt that we need just run to feudalism asp, accept capitulation and switch for peaceful mode for a time. I would be happy with pantheon fall money, but otherwise I would try to get capture barb cities money. The moment some one get currency we should be able to beg from pleased, with our power we should get some.
I don't believe we have enough war success atm to get Zara and Napoleon to capitulate. Moreover, we're not even a land target to either of them as we have 0 border tiles with them, which makes it even more unlikely.
If we're lucky we can get a Philosophy bulb before MM and use that to trade for Feudalism, but that's still fairly off in the future. Feudalism doesn't help the economy and it's an AI early target, so it is my opinion that we should look to trade for it rather than research it.
If we're lucky we can get a Philosophy bulb before MM and use that to trade for Feudalism, but that's still fairly off in the future. Feudalism doesn't help the economy and it's an AI early target, so it is my opinion that we should look to trade for it rather than research it.
Bordering tiles makes it easier for capitulation... however I agree with you that we should have enough war success, land and pop to capitulate both of them.
It'd still like to get the basic economy techs before though as it will be hard to trade with other AIs afterwards. Moreover, we still need to fill in the gaps before capitulating them or they will settle in our face.
It'd still like to get the basic economy techs before though as it will be hard to trade with other AIs afterwards. Moreover, we still need to fill in the gaps before capitulating them or they will settle in our face.
huerfanista
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,276
Just a comment from the peanut gallery:
according to DanF's complete XML variables spreadsheet, Joao's wfyabta limit is 15, not 5 (so adding 40% gives 21).
Nice game so far.
mlinneak
Prince
Honestly, the discussions in this SG are pretty advanced for me. I am just reading and learning and trying to keep up without messing anything up terribly when playing my turn.
Normally I am a wonder addict, but I have been too concerned about not having enough military units/settlers/workers to cover our current needs to consider any wonder.
These comments intrigue me, though ~
If we have a city anyway that doesn't have anything too useful to build, Hippo, I would think that whipping some of our settlers into the Parthenon there would be a good move. It will help with our culture concerns in that area.
So at this point, my vote would be for building it, in Hippo.
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