Leaderhead Requests

[Duneflower]

Could someone perhaps resurrect Pachacuti? He was easily my favourite leader in (as you can probably tell by my avatar , though I wish there was a good actual pic of him for that), and to me Wayna Qhapaq just seems a bit lacking by comparison.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Ekmek made a great Pachacuti.

 

[Duneflower]

They did? I didn't see it... >.> <.<

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Not they. He. And check out his library.

 

[Duneflower]

I used "they" because I didn't know whether Ekmek was male or female.

And yeah, I just saw that, thanks. XP

 

[Wolfshanze]

I used "they" because I didn't know whether Ekmek was male or female.

And yeah, I just saw that, thanks. XP

They implies multiple people... it's not a word you use for one person male or female. If you weren't sure of Ekmek's sex, you'd then say "Ekmek did?", not "They did?".

 

[NikNaks]

In some circles, they is used as an impersonal pronoun when you don't know the gender. You might not agree with it, but that's how the language has gone. Here's an article on it.

 

[Duneflower]

Nice, Nik. Just nice.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Well, I'm a big fan of something called "the dictionary"... such as Merriam/Webster. It's always referred to a plural in my 40+ years on the planet.

 

[NikNaks]

Care to check out the second "usage" in that definition there? As I said, not everyone will agree with its usage, but that's just the way it is.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

If you don't want to use "they", use "shi".

 

[Wolfshanze]

Care to check out the second "usage" in that definition there? As I said, not everyone will agree with its usage, but that's just the way it is.

Yeah... and "They" is a plural pronoun not a singular pronoun.

This gives you the option of using the plural pronouns where you think they sound best, and of using the singular pronouns (as he, she, he or she, and their inflected forms) where you think they sound best.

He could have said "Ekmek did?" or "He/She did?"... "They did?" has a very different connotation. The fact that Huayna Capac357 picked-up immediately on the "they" thing as being plural should be a very hot indicator that very few people on the face of this planet think of "they" in a singular term, and it is not a commonly accepted usage.

 

[IgorS]

Yeah... and "They" is a plural pronoun not a singular pronoun.

He could have said "Ekmek did?" or "He/She did?"... "They did?" has a very different connotation. The fact that Huayna Capac357 picked-up immediately on the "they" thing as being plural should be a very hot indicator that very few people on the face of this planet think of "they" in a singular term, and it is not a commonly accepted usage.

I just want to add that I think "they" can be used when you don't talk about someone specific. Like when you want to say what somethig a person might do and this person could be anyone. You can use "they" instead of writing "he/she". Using "they" for a specific person does sound wrong, and not only in English.

 

[Wolfshanze]

English just doesn't have a very good singular non-gender-specific pronoun... which is why the "He/She" combo-pronoun is often used when one doesn't know the gender of the person being spoken about. "He/She" may be a bit clumsy, but the terminology is clear, where-as forcing a plural pronoun such as "they" can be very misleading to the average reader when referring to a single individual.

 

[The Capo]

this is ridiculous.

I can't believe this is even an issue. Using they to mean he or she is simply incorrect and borderline ********. I'm sorry, there is no defense for this. It's like how rednecks say "all y'all," its just patently incorrect. Just say it outloud to yourself...

"[Steve]* already made Pachacuti."

"They did?"

Repeat it again and again, when does that EVER sound correct?

*used a real name to drive the point home a little more

 

[Wolfshanze]

Capo, go easy on NikNaks... he's from England, so he probably doesn't understand proper English very well...

I think NikNaks needs to watch this, and that should clear things up with proper useage of a pronoun.

 

[Duneflower]

Hokay, time for a few real requests...

My Collector trait (insert LH joke here) decided to assert itself again today, so I decided I wanted to add in everyone that's ever appeared in a Civ game as a leader, or at least reasonable replacements for them. I found most of those who aren't already in [bts], but a few still haven't been seen:

Eleanor Roosevelt - couldn't even begin to suggest who to base her on. :/

Spoiler :

Ishtari? (Babylonia) - Can't even figure out who this is supposed to be, unless it's some weird take on the goddess Ishtar. Definitely want some kind of Babylonian female, but up for suggestions on who it should be.
Cunobelinus (Celtia/Wales?) - Based on the one in the upper-left, maybe Suryavarman?

Spoiler :

Hippolyta? (Greece) - Erm, Hippolyta was an Amazon, who according to Herodotus were even less Greek than the Macedonians. Still, seems like I oughta use her somewhere...Based on this pic, actually looks awfully close to Ekmek's Theodora, whoever she's based on...

Spoiler :

Indira Gandhi, as previously mentioned.
Amaterasu (Japan) - Uhm...well, maybe not so much. But definitely some Japanese female or other, and if she's based on this pic...uh, maybe Hatshepsut?

Spoiler :

Börte (Mongol) - Hmm...actually, Ekaterina looked a lot like this when she got older, so maybe use her?

Spoiler :

Sacagawea (NatAmer/Sioux) - Ooh, man, this one could take some work; I can't see anyone with that round a face, especially with the high indian cheekbones...

Spoiler :

Osman I (Ottomans) - Actually, I think Qin Shi Huang would be a great base for him, with those big freakin' huge jowls.

Livia (Rome) - Isabella, maybe?

Spoiler :

Gunnhild, Mother of Kings (Viking) - I think I'ma go with Liz on this one.

Spoiler :

Shakala? (Zulu) - I'm almost certain this one's fictitious, not even based on a mythological figure, just a permutation of "Shaka". Anyone for freestylin'?

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

I think that for a female American leaderhead, Hillary Clinton would be a good choice. I think she could be based on Victoria.

By the way, Duneflower, I know you laughed at the "shi" joke, but herms are gross!

 

[RavenKing]

I don't think NikNaks was actually endorsing the use of 'they' as a singular pronoun, just noting that it is becoming more widely used.

I suspect that it will be pervasive in 10 years' time and 'correct' in about 30 when us old codgers are too feeble to protest anymore. Some things like "y'all" or "youse" (as my old aunt in Sunderland UK used to say when speaking to a plural 'you'), are regional and go nowhere. With the internet, however, other language shifts will occur if the younger speakers pick it up and use it consistently.

As for leaderheads, I still think that there is room for more African leaders, especially sub-Saharan female African leaders. The Kings of Kongo like Joao or Alvaro, Opoku Ware and Yaa Asantewaa of the Ashanti, Oba Ewuare of Benin, Majan Dyabe Cisse, founder of the Ghana Empire, the rulers of Kanem & Bornu, Queen Nzinga of Ndongo & Motamba (Angola), Mutapa of Great Zimbabwe, the Candaces of Nubia/Kush...

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

I've seen Mutapa in Civ Gold.

But what about another leader for Zimbabwe?