Leftists

[Plotinus]

I would call Obama, and most on the left socialist.

You can call them what you like, but you're not using the word "socialist" in the way that most people use it.

You want to know what a socialist is, find out about Tony Benn or George Galloway or people like that.

I must admit this sickens me a lot. Is there ANY real right wingers in England?

Yes. Plenty. There are one or two of them posting on this very site, in case you hadn't noticed. However, most of them are not as right-wing as the people you call right-wing, because your definitions are skewed way to the right. Put simply, in the UK the sort of people you call right-wing or "conservative" are the lunatic fringe, confined to fringe parties such as UKIP or extreme newspapers such as the Daily Mail.

That said, an awful lot of people do read the Daily Mail.

That said, you'd probably think that the Daily Mail is dangerously liberal.

And policies that you consider insanely liberal, such as government-run health care, are not only standard in the UK but no mainstream politician would ever reject them. No major politician from any of the major parties would consider dismantling the NHS, for example - whenever a politician does say something like this there is an outcry. This is because the NHS more or less works and is very popular, much to the surprise of right-wing Americans who think it's communism.

Why this "sickens" you I can't think. Britain's doing perfectly well without American-style politics, and long may it continue to do so.

Anyway, to point out, the majority of Americans here are leftist too, even though people have reasonably answered the question.

Most of the Americans on this site seem to me to be pretty right-wing, but perhaps they're not by American standards.

Is this word "leftist" a common one in America? It sounds very strange. The term is "left-wing".

 

[sophie]

Also Owen, forgot to quote you, but you said here you were a socialist, but you said somewhere else you are a social democrat. Acknowledging they are the same?

No. I described myself as somewhere between a social democrat and a socialist. Maybe I've moved farther left since then

As for Obama, I really dislike him, specifically because he hasn't done anything truly "lefty" like he promised he would. In truth, it's more of the same corporate bought and owned government that we saw in the Bush administration.

As for the actual topic, refer to my first post.

 

[Quackers]

Plotinus why are UKIP a lunatic fringe party? They got 2nd most votes in the EU elections. Sound like a reasonable party to me.

 

[Disgustipated]

The reason there are so many liberals is because posters here tend to be the intelligent type who do well in school. And they follow the brainwashing the teachers and professors put out. I give you guys this challenge: don't blindly follow what your teachers/professors say. Think for yourself. Teachers/professors aren't that smart. I quickly learned in high school I was much smarter than my teachers. They are bound to support the liberal system because that is where their paychecks come from. Their opinion is biased.

I am not a conservative mind you. I hate organized religion, and think conservatives have too many silly ideas (prayer in schools, 10 commandments etc.). But in economic policy I am conservative. I have seen socialism and social democracy fail too many times to support such a system. the crisis in Greece was the nail in the coffin for me. I have considered socialism (I do have an open mind), but just don't have any evidence it can work.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And the U.S. isn't broken. It's the greatest country in the world to succeed. And don't get me crap about disenfranchised people. If you want to be wealthy you can. I went from poor to middle class. Anyone can if they use their brain.

 

[Plotinus]

[Quackers] UKIP get protest votes, especially in something like the EU elections where their anti-foreign rhetoric is popular and where most people aren't really bothered about the election at all. In the general election we have just had, which people actually care about, they got slightly over 3% of the vote. That is not a major party.

Moreover, a party whose campaign strategy is to put up big posters with pictures of the leaders of the major parties and the slogan "SOD THE LOT - VOTE UKIP" is not a reasonable party by any definition.

 

[Quackers]

15 Million came out for the EU elections. It is hardly a minor election. You can't just ignore it when it doesn't suit your own ideas.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

You can't ignore the UKIP being a lunatic fringe party just because it suits your own ideas.

 

[spryllino]

The reason there are so many liberals is because posters here tend to be the intelligent type who do well in school. And they follow the brainwashing the teachers and professors put out. I give you guys this challenge: don't blindly follow what your teachers/professors say. Think for yourself. Teachers/professors aren't that smart. I quickly learned in high school I was much smarter than my teachers. They are bound to support the liberal system because that is where their paychecks come from. Their opinion is biased.

In my experience, too many of the teachers are either fanatically religious or ridiculously illiberal, actually, and they normally don't put out philosophical ideas of any sort, unless they're RE teachers, in which case they tend to use the job to try and convert as much of the class as possible to Christianity.

I can say with complete confidence that my teachers' social views have had minimal effect on mine.

 

[Quackers]

Out of my 3 lecturers. 1 is apolitical. 1 says he is a labour supporter but he doesn't discuss a lot. The other calls Ronald Reagan a Nazi and makes snide remarks at the American right. Basically a cariciture of a left-winger.

At school nobody was political except for my English teacher who forced us to read dire articles by Polly Toynbee.

 

[Plotinus]

15 Million came out for the EU elections. It is hardly a minor election. You can't just ignore it when it doesn't suit your own ideas.

I didn't say it's a minor election. I said it's one that people aren't as bothered about as they are by other elections, and many of the votes cast in it are protest votes. This is why minor and fringe parties invariably do better in it than they do in general elections. 34% of the electorate voted in that election, and of them, 16% voted for UKIP. Still not very much. Compare that to the general election we have just had, where the turnout was 65%, of whom only 3% voted for UKIP. Its leader not only failed to win the seat he was contesting, where neither Labour nor the Lib Dems fielded candidates - he came third, being beaten not only by the incumbent Speaker but also by by an independent with a dolphin. That makes it a fringe party, end of story, just as the Greens, Respect, the BNP and others are fringe parties - although it is arguably the largest of the fringe parties. I'm not ignoring it, I'm recognising it for what it is. And as I said, even its own posters during the campaign recognised this fact and tried to get people to vote for it purely as a protest against the mainstream parties.

Also, like other fringe parties, UKIP is basically a single-issue party - another reason why it does well in European elections, since Europe is its issue.

Not that this has the slightest bearing on the subject of this thread, of course. Especially since no doubt the OP would think Nigel Farage a dangerous socialist anyway.

 

[Mathilda]

Out of my 3 lecturers. 1 is apolitical. 1 says he is a labour supporter but he doesn't discuss a lot. The other calls Ronald Reagan a Nazi and makes snide remarks at the American right. Basically a cariciture of a left-winger.

At school nobody was political except for my English teacher who forced us to read dire articles by Polly Toynbee.

We had a classic one.
She said: I'm going to be teaching you this, because the curriculum says I have to, but it's just a story among other stories. Here we go: evolution.

 

[GhostWriter16]

You can call them what you like, but you're not using the word "socialist" in the way that most people use it.

You want to know what a socialist is, find out about Tony Benn or George Galloway or people like that.



Yes. Plenty. There are one or two of them posting on this very site, in case you hadn't noticed. However, most of them are not as right-wing as the people you call right-wing, because your definitions are skewed way to the right. Put simply, in the UK the sort of people you call right-wing or "conservative" are the lunatic fringe, confined to fringe parties such as UKIP or extreme newspapers such as the Daily Mail.

That said, an awful lot of people do read the Daily Mail.

That said, you'd probably think that the Daily Mail is dangerously liberal.

And policies that you consider insanely liberal, such as government-run health care, are not only standard in the UK but no mainstream politician would ever reject them. No major politician from any of the major parties would consider dismantling the NHS, for example - whenever a politician does say something like this there is an outcry. This is because the NHS more or less works and is very popular, much to the surprise of right-wing Americans who think it's communism.

Why this "sickens" you I can't think. Britain's doing perfectly well without American-style politics, and long may it continue to do so.



Most of the Americans on this site seem to me to be pretty right-wing, but perhaps they're not by American standards.

Is this word "leftist" a common one in America? It sounds very strange. The term is "left-wing".

The NHS destroys lives. I read an article recently, that told of someone who died because of something stuck inside of her that could have been easily taken out, in ENGLAND! BECAUSE OF THE NHS!

Besides, most Americans don't even want it, meaning in the United States its a government-corrupt program by definition.

As long as England isn't invading Israel, supporting terrorism, or supporting dictatorship (Which they are not) I don't care what you want to do in England. It will fail, as it will in the US.

To Owen, yes, I read your answer, and I must admit it was the most satisfactory one given IMO.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Right.....

Don't you think women needing to abort a baby because it would kill them to be murder?

 

[Ajidica]

Domination, don't even try and argue with Plotinius. You will fail.

The NHS is no worse than the mangled abomination we have in America. Ever seen Michael Moores movie Sicko? A person was denied health care on a 'pre-existing condition'. The 'pre-existing condition' was a yeast infection she had twenty years ago.
And for the object thing, have you not heard here about how doctors have accidentaly taken out the wrong organ or left tools inside the body?

Sorry Domination, a vote last year proved that Americans do want health care reform. Sorry, but a democratic process says you are wrong.

Plotinius, how much of Englands economic issues are due to a large welfare system or Thatchers reforms?

 

[Dudemeister]

i wonder how long plotinus will care to write long drawn out posts telling you about reality when all you reply is LOL NHS KILLED SOMEONE I HEARD.

 

[Senethro]

Whereas in America the woman would certainly be dead if she couldn't afford healthcare AND still possible to have whatever form of malpractice went on in your anecdote.

How certain are you that most Americans don't want public healthcare?

How many "socialist" healthcare provisions have collapsed spectacularly around the world compared to how many established and surviving?

Edit: woops, fast posts.

 

[NBAfan]

I don't have a problem with the real liberals. I just have a problem with the progressives and the communists.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

If it's in caps IT MAKES ARGUEMENT BETX0R N00B.

Moderator Action: That's not necessary.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The NHS destroys lives.

Then why are life expectancy, infant mortality, and maternal mortality rates better in the UK than the US? That means that there you live longer, your child is less likely to die during or shortly after birth, and the mother is less likely to die giving birth, than in the US. So tell me how that "destroys lives." It sounds to me like it saves them and makes them better.

I read an article recently, that told of someone who died because of something stuck inside of her that could have been easily taken out, in ENGLAND! BECAUSE OF THE NHS!

You mean like an unborn fetus?

 

[Behind The Mask]

The NHS destroys lives. I read an article recently, that told of someone who died because of something stuck inside of her that could have been easily taken out, in ENGLAND! BECAUSE OF THE NHS!

And?

If you havent noticed people die all over the world because of crap like that... even in the lovable USA you might find you were stitched up with a frikken syringe left poking into your left lung.

Pray that if a doctor does leave something in ya its his gold watch, that way you know he'll be sure to get that damn thing back.

Point is, thats not because of NHS.

I don't even support NHS that much, I feel its a good concept but the rendition put into practice can be somewhat poor.

But healthcare is not that damn bad and NHS isn't so bad either.

You act as though the ambulances are being driven around while on fire, carrying patients off to prisons where they lock them up and then midgets come and beat them with waffles.

Thats what happens, its just covered up.