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Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by WastinTime, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    According to Dhoom's research, I'll keep it since I have 100% of the culture there.
     
  2. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    There will be a quiz.
     
  3. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Aren't you gifting the city? If so, if the AI had Moai in another city, wouldn't it be destroyed when you gift it.


    and I think this thread if fantastic. And the main reason I don't compete in HOF games because there's no way I want to micro to this level.
     
  4. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Yea, I won't be giving it to anyone with Moai. Probably Lincoln. He has one size 1 city (that I think I gave him).

    And the HoF games don't take this level of micro. I'm only doing this to the level of SGotM to get the best Space race ever. Or when I went for High Score--which I need to do again someday to get closer to 15 million.
     
  5. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Your definition of level of micro is different then mine. I don't even check every city every turn so I end up with spy specialists. I automate or sleep my workers when I start my cur rushes. I don't check out my trade deals every 10 turns to see if they can be improved. So while I do do some micro, I don't enjoy it enough to be fully anal about it. I even play with tech trading off so I won't be bothered. :D
     
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I haven't been able to actually play a turn, but I have enough planning to get started once I have time. I won't have time for about 10 days, but then I promise July will have lots of progress.
     
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  7. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I've been playing (up to T184 now) Nothing interesting. I'm frustrated that my army is idle. I've been trying to move it to the other side of the planet and/or attack someone locally, but a good plan hasn't presented itself. Until now.

    Here's the map. Far out west, Liz(white) and Peter(red) have 12 cities, mostly on one large landmass. On an earth-like map, Peter could be considered North America and Liz is in South America. My main empire is roughly Africa (and Russia)


    The biggest reason I didn't want to go for Peter was that it will cost too much to keep his and Liz's cities.
    I don't even have CoL, much less the courthouses needed for Forbidden Palace.

    I have a pink dot-map showing where I would probably put a city to grab copper and gold for Mining Inc. without putting a city on the big landmass.
    So, what's the evil plan for that land?
    It's a long story. New post below...
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  8. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    We're way overdue for a :devil: hot tip.
    This one is really hot. I'll eventually get around to how Peter/Liz fit with this strategy.

    :devil::devil: Several years ago, I figured out how to increase the domination limit so I can own/control more land. 51% on Large (or Huge) is just not enough room to get explosive research and space parts built. Especially gathering all the corporation resources. With the help of this forum, and special mention to elitetroops, we found...
    Domination Limit can be increased to 76%. :eek:
    Think about a duel map. It's 74% with one opponent. Each extra opponent is -2%, so 4 opponents on Tiny would be 70%.

    So how do you get it to zero opponents and 76%?
    The key is : Vassals don't count. Note, they have to be newly created colony/vassals. If, for example, Mansa becomes your vassal, that won't affect the dom limit.
    A good way to think about it is that you have push all the original DEAD AI off the end of the scoreboard, so new leaders need to appear.

    Solution 1: Free your own colonies
    you need 2 cities (minimum) on another landmass to free a colony. For 16 colonies, that would be 32 cities! And a lot of land that they own which counts towards your 76% :(

    Solution 2: Make the AI create colonies
    Here is where I check the code and calculate how/if the AI will do this.
    Short answer for this game on Large: The AI will instantly free a colony (no randomness :thumbsup:) if they have maybe 4 cities, certainly 5, on one landmass that does not contain the AI capital. You just need to make the cities' maintenance exceed their value in commerce/hammers.
    :devil: mini-hot tip within this hot tip: It helps to pillage roads and/or blockade to prevent internal trade routes.
    :( Of course, there's a huge problem with solution 2 as is. You can't be giving away 50+ cities to the AI. And then they'd have a bunch of corp resources they won't trade you.

    edit: I should point out that when anyone creates a new colony, each city gets two defenders. :devil: Hot tip: Keep one stone-aged AI around and deny them metals so each city will have two warriors :thumbsup:

    - Fix #1 for solution 2
    Recapture the cities. rinse, repeat.
    This fails because the dead newly created colony drops to the bottom of the list. The next new colony pushes it off and no change in dom limit.

    - Fix #2
    This is where the Liz/Peter land inspired me.
    I can't afford to hold those lands anyway. And many are horrible jungle cities. So capture them all for the :gold:, but give 5 away to say Lincoln. New colony (let's say Zara) created. Recapture 4 of 5 cities leaving Zara alive. Gift the 4 back to Lincoln plus one more. Rinse, repeat.
    (technically, I have to do a small twist to finally get rid of Lincoln, but...)
    Eventually, I could end up with 17 new AI all on that landmass in 17 cities. Dom limit is then 76%.

    Conclusion:
    I'll most likely not do pure solution 2 and instead mix 1 & 2, meaning I'll have a few of my own vassals. 2 cities each, on islands with mining/sushi resources. Each of these vassals is also +1 happy which I planned to benefit from.

    So now my army can finally move confidently west. As they trickle in, they can first perform mass worker stealing and I'll ship those home, then pillaging, and then capturing cities for colony creation/dom limit increase.

    edit: After you raise the dom limit to 76% or whatever you want, you can kill everyone (except one so you don't win by conquest). Maybe reclaim some corp resources.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  9. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Very nice. When reading the previous post, I wondered if it involved a trick with Lincoln, seeing as he had less than 4 cities.
     
  10. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Oh wow, I had no idea killing newly created colonies over and over wouldn't raise the dom limit.

    Very nice work!
     
  11. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    That's what the current research/testing shows. I'd love a workaround.
    I think we need to figure out how/why the DEAD AI get ordered and make sure the new AI doesn't go to the bottom. I thought I had figured it out, but I don't care to dig further because I have a solution that will work for this game.
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Oh, I almost forgot one of the most important things. After you raise the dom limit to 76% or whatever, you can kill everyone (except one so you don't win by conquest). Maybe reclaim some corp resources.
     
  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I've got a turnset report! I would have had much more by now, but I could pass up kcd_swede's final Gotm/BotM scenario.
    Then I spent even more time on Pangaea's debut BotM 134 (currently still running for another month).
     
  14. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Edited my DomLimit increase plan to include: ....when anyone creates a new colony, each city gets two defenders.
    :devil: Hot tip: Keep one stone-aged AI around and deny them metals so each city will have two warriors :thumbsup:
     
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Turnset 179-196 Buildup, then War #1 on Peter

    179 - 191 was pretty dull. Every. Single. Turn. I was putting a whip overflow into Moai and/or Temple of Artemis.
    I triggered Moai for like 5000:gold: and Liz built ToA for ~3000:gold:

    I whipped an assortment of units to go mess with Peter. My old army marched all the way from the far NE to the far West and then sailed another 25 tiles. Basically traveling 2/3 the way around the globe. It felt wrong, but I couldn't attack anyone with Quechua any more except the beaten down Justinian and Lincoln. But I'm leaving them alone too. Mostly because my Diplo is pretty bad and I don't want someone DoWing me.

    I've got Engineering and most of Feudal. Useless Mansa is doing Feudal, but he's too slow.
    Guilds is scheduled for T205 and I have the money for that.
    I need about 3000:gold: more to make Banking/Merc, then I don't care so much about the research slider.

    191 DoW Peter

    Turned out, after exploring more, Peter's land wasn't one big area :(, it's off on a couple islands. But there's still 6 cities plus Liz. Four Peter cities are complete garbage in the jungle. Perfect for my vassal plan a few posts back.

    War Goals

    1. Capture the 3 workers I located on the coast.
    2. pillage iron and copper (and more if convenient)
    3. kill a few easy targets.
    4. Look for a way to get 2xp for my old Quechua. I have a 24/26 quechua. C1, cover, CRIII. If I upgrade him to axe (and eventually Mace; no CS rt now) XP drops to 10/26. So the best thing to do is get that 26xp promo.
    I have another 26/26 Q that I want to upgrade, but I don't want to spend money til I know Banking is secured.

    Result:
    I chased a 4th worker out of the jungle and he started work on a coastal tile. My sword amphibiously grabbed him.
    So +4 workers, 26 total.
    Attacked and archer at 93% and got my 2xp for my Q.
    I couldn't resist killing a stray Axe at 96% with my chariot, but he died in the counter attack.

    196 Cease Fire
    I'll need to go pillage/blockade the iron on Peter's other island. I didn't know you could blockade someone you're at peace with. Then I'll wait for him to build me more workers.

    Meanwhile... Random events/quests...

    Justy and Linc are at war. The two guys with like 5 archers between them :crazyeye:
    I believe what happened was a random event which Lincoln had a Hindu wedding and Justinian DoW'd based on that.

    I had forgotten about the Horse Whisperer quest I got T144.
    I don't know that it's smart to do it, but it sounds like fun, so I am. I need 9 stables where normally I'd probably build 1 or 2. They are 180h each which is not a really good number to whip for overflow. Especially in cities without forges, but I have many forges.
    My reward: 9 Horse Archers (which only cost 100h)
    HAs will still be very strong even tho I'll soon be making Knights.
    (Note that this quest is better on normal speed where stable=60 and HA=50.)
    I have all the stables finishing in a few turns from now. Still looking for a local target. I can't send all that to Peter. I suppose I could add Liz to the target list while I'm over there.
    My capital has been doing barracks, stable, Heroic Epic, so should put out a lot of knights after guilds.
    I'll have to pay particular attention to the anit-knight: Ivory/War Elephants (Mansa, Roos, Willy, Vicky). Basically everyone on the mainland but Darius.
    The AI are all getting Construction about now, but no one with HBR.


    T195 Literature Quest
    This one has 3 reward options. None of them very exciting.
    The best option is only if you already own the Great Library. Then reward is +1 scientist in GLib city.

    I need to be first to 9 libraries. Don't I have 9 already? Nope, 6 plus 2 coming soon. I just need to find one more. It's surprisingly hard to find a city that can 3-whip this in 10-15 turns, but I got one.
    I should finish Glib around T210 and I'll hold off on this 9th library til then.

    Religion/Missionaries/OrgRel
    I thought about a 5 turn stint in OrgRel after the golden age starts (say T215-220) to build misssionaries and finish wonders with 25% bonus, but I opted for a Monastery. I thought I'd have to put out 5 missionaries, but now it's only 3 since I got some Budda spreads. I'll have to manage the wonders without OrgRel. Now I'll be able to have 23 turns of caste instead of 18 in GAge #1.
    I'm still planning a 5t slavery gap between GAges.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  16. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Thanks for the turn update. Sounds like it's going well. Hopefully the vassal trick will work out.

    Just keep an eye out for when the quest expires. It's at certain technologies. Don't know when it is for this particular one, but could well be Guilds. There is an excellent article about it somewhere, probably in the War Academy (which is difficult to find post-forum redesign).

    edit: I found it, and you have plenty of time (maybe you already knew).
    Spoiler :
    Horse Whispering
    Prereq: ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY AND Horse resource
    Obsolete: NATIONALISM or PRINTING_PRESS or EDUCATION or GUNPOWDER or ASTRONOMY
    Active/Weight: 25/500
    Aim:
    Build default number of players for this world size stables (7 for standard)
    Result:
    1.you get default number of players for this world size Horse Archers (6 for standard)
    2.All mounted units get the Sentry promotion
    3.All stables provide +1 food
    Third option is actually a little intriguing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  17. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Yea, it's Renaissance that expires the quest. Same with my 9 library quest.

    I also just got a literacy event. Pay 100 for 67% chance of a scientist (and +3 health) in the city. And it triggered on my future Glib city (Lisbon), so that will be 4 free scientists there :eek:
    I need a major revisit to my GP plan soon anyway because I'm not doing the 5t of OrgRel/PoliceState.
     
  18. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I'm hoping for Guns/Butter quest which can only be triggered after Gunpowder.
     
  19. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Turnset Report T197 - 215

    This is the final turnset before the Golden Age where I switch out of slavery. I'm being as aggressive as possible with the Wonder Bread Economy so I can make it to Banking by 215 and after 215, it'd be nice if my research isn't only scientists.

    T197 Willy gets Calendar and will trade because Darius has had it for a while (this is why we play with the Dutch)

    My workers(26) are almost all re-tasked to swarm the luxuries. They've probably already done their last farm. When they're done with spices(6), dye, incense, silk, it's probably time to workshop the planet. GrassRiverWorkshops will be 1f4h2c in my golden age, exactly the same as a grassRiverMine

    These happies allow my GPfarms to grow in preparation for the GoldenAge T215.
    My non-gpfarms are all whipping mercilessly and putting max OF into Paya mostly. Some Parthenon, NatEpic, Mids, and some in MoM.
    It appears there is no way the AI will bulb Philo and if they do, they won't give it to me, so I've been planning to use Paya to get Pacifism. Sometimes I've been able to get Philo from Mansa, but he doesn't even have CoL.

    I'm also trying to whip out my buddhists and overflow all of them into MoM. MoM
    is 1350h, so I still need to chop 3 forests in that city.

    The wonders are going very well, but they did not go as I had envisioned. In a perfect WBE, I would build them only as a backup plan. Plan A is to capture all of those (except NatEpic) As far as I can tell, not one AI has started any wonder. Not even Mids. And they're not fighting each other much. :confused:

    T203 2nd Peter War
    I catch another 2 workers on his iron and copper. He's the most backward AI and I easily capture Moscow T206 as a keeper city (has iron for Mining Inc)
    Two more cities T209. By the end of this turnset, I should have all of his mainland and can attempt the AI-vassal creation.

    In the next few turns, I'll be finishing all my wonders and the 2 quests. Whipping a Knight in every city that is at least size 4 and is not a GPfarm. I'll post all that here to wrap up this turnset. Then the GP plan goes into affect next.

    Calendar luxuries are all connected and some workers are getting bored...or at a minimum feel their work is not important.

    T210 Horse Whisperer
    Live and learn I guess.
    In hindsight, I would have probably skipped this quest. I got my reward. I was expecting a 2xp HA in each stable city and 5xp HAs where I also have barracks.
    Possibly all could appear in one city instead of spread out.
    I did get all 9 in one city, but they all have zero XP :(
    Those were very expensive, almost obsolete units.

    T211 :dance: Sports League quest offered!
    One of the best quests in the game. (I wonder if I had to complete one of my other quests for this to have a chance happen.)
    Code:
        Sports League
        Prereq: CONSTRUCTION
        Obsolete: RADIO or REFRIGERATION or PLASTICS or SATELLITES or ADVANCED_FLIGHT or ECOLOGY
        Active/Weight: 25/500
            Aim:
            Build default number of players for this world size Colosseums (7 for standard)
            Result:
    1.+1 happy face for every Colosseum
    2.+4 culture for every collosseum
    3.IF you control the Statue of Zeus wonder trigger a golden age
    It's not quite a great as it sounds. The Golden Age is the goal.
    9 Colosseums is 2160h, plus you need 3 monuments + Zeus.
    So the way to do this is capture Zeus. (note to self: get Aesthetics to AI that have Ivory and are not on the top of my hit list. Mansa probably)
    It's also nice if you capture colosseums.
    And 2160h is a lot more than Taj at 2100h because you don't get +150% for IND and marble.
    Now I'm more eager than ever to start my GAge, cus I can run it til the end of the game. Maybe even do my slavery window without ever exiting the GAge.

    My GAge now can run from T215 to T336 (121 turns) Remember, I promised to launch T349 at the latest.
    :hmm: maybe I should just start the GAage now? Grr. no, I don't have my wonders. Especially MoM.

    T213 As I said, often the AI will bulb Philo by now, but I just realized :hammer2: that they haven't even coughed up CoL. I can't take Caste with out it!
    So, I set almost all my cities to build research to squeeze out a few more beakers
    I'm also out of money, so I have to trade a couple techs just to make it thru this turn.

    Great Library
    (Lisbon) Will run 12 scientists!!!
    (very small amt of failgold)

    Literature Quest complete
    (free scientist in GLib city)

    T214 Banking
    I get 40% bonus on CoL for having both pre-requisites

    Paya
    (for Pacifism) First time I've ever built this for Pacifism, but I planned to this game since I knew I was going to start my GPfarms much earlier than ever before.
    Maybe I'll just research Philo next time. If I end up getting Philo free from the AI then I'm happy I built Paya. But if I have to research it :(

    Parthenon (Orleans, with NatEpic ~5 turns ago...artist points all in one place.) I wanted MoM here too, but I didn't have the hammers.

    Lots of failgold which allows me to finish CoL in 1 turn.

    T215 Code of Laws
    (1911 :science:) :thumbsup:

    Civil Service (also 40% bonus) should be about 4-5 turns which is perfect. I can start the GAge and change civics now and again T220 Bureaucracy.

    End of Turnset
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Final GP Plan (take 3)

    Everyone loves pictures, right?




    I dug this out of our old SGotM thread and modified it for this game.
    This is the first time I used a spreadsheet for GP plans. I really like it. I used to just do it in my head and with a calculator. Thanks @Mitchum for the template!

    If it looks like a lot of math, it's not. The formulas are all there and you just type in how many specialists you want to run each turn. I could upload the actual spreadsheet if there's interest in seeing that.

    Music Artist is for GAge#1

    It took a lot of shuffling around the GPplan, but I'm going all the way to 6000gpp and create these 15 GPs:

    1 GE for Mining Inc
    1 or 2 GM trade mission
    8 or 9 GS for bulbing
    2 GP needed for GAge#2
    2 GP needed for GAge#4 (plus free GSpy)

    Slavery window is still T238-243

    The beauty of this plan is I managed to get Edu, PPress and Chem all in the first golden age.

    Those are the ones needed for Mining Inc.
    After that, SciMeth and Biology towards sushi, maybe Physics.

    I'm wondering if I should do one more GM for a trade mission. Why bulb physics? I'm imagining my bulbs are all ready to go early on SM/Biology ~T266, but I'm still bogged down doing manual research (RepParts, steam, steel). Need a crystal ball.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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