Libya: Seriously, where is this going?

[Ajidica]

The US isn't in the assassinating leaders business anymore

 

[r16]

the mental thing is back in the heights of Bushism , that is about by 2005 or so a think tank published a book in America that persuaded the doubters that continued Islamicisation of Turkey was not a risk , because we were , BY GOD , merely gasbags and a simple demonstration of American space superiority would take the wind out of our sails . America has challenged us to a duel in space and we have accepted . What is the thing people find unbelieveable in that ?


and the pic below is the country France offers to us , kinda . Poor Greeks , wonder what they did against Sarkozy.

 

[Verbose]

and the pic below is the country France offers to us , kinda . Poor Greeks , wonder what they did against Sarkozy.

I highly doubt it.

 

[r16]

and ı would only concur . My entire point with the map is they somehow need Turkey in battle and stop at nothing . All the neo-Ottomanism Turkey can reliably correleated with foreign efforts to get us to do something . But saying this makes you immediately an enemy of the brilliant future of the country . Which can again be correleated with friends of the West .

 

[Winner]

What the hell are you talking about? Where does the map come from, how on Earth is it related to anything we are discussing in this thread?

 

[holy king]

America has challenged us to a duel in space and we have accepted .

 

[asbestos]

and the pic below is the country France offers to us , kinda . Poor Greeks , wonder what they did against Sarkozy.

Is that the Turkish sphere of influence by 2050 according to Stratfor?

 

[Winner]

Is that the Turkish sphere of influence by 2050 according to Stratfor?

I thought I've seen it before. It's still nonsense, BTW

 

[kochman]

Yeah, I mean, unless they plan to take Greece by force, which I don't think the West would be happy about.

The Greek and Turkish cultures collide, therefore, Turks will not have Greece in their sphere...

Turks won't even have a sphere, for crying out loud... They are generally a non-factor on the world stage.

 

[Tee Kay]

18th largest population, 17th largest economy, 6th largest army (2nd largest in NATO), nuclear-armed as part of NATO's code share program, strategic location between EU, Russia, the Caucasus and the Middle East, good reasons with pro-Western and anti-Western regimes, shared cultural ties with six Turkic states, 15 Turkic territories and 47 Muslim-majority countries, historical connections with 44 states, and a diaspora ten million strong.

Non-factor, indeed.

 

[Verbose]

and ı would only concur . My entire point with the map is they somehow need Turkey in battle and stop at nothing .

No, what I'm saying is that "Quai d'Orsay" would NEVER promise anything like that, for whatever reason.

Not just because it would be an odious sell-out of the Greeks etc., but because it would be a stupid offer, not within France's power to make anyway, and with zero probability of making the French look anything but silly if they did.

They may be difficult, but they're far from stupid. Which anykind of offer based on that map would indicate.

 

[Verbose]

18th largest population, 17th largest economy, 6th largest army (2nd largest in NATO), nuclear-armed as part of NATO's code share program, strategic location between EU, Russia, the Caucasus and the Middle East, good reasons with pro-Western and anti-Western regimes, shared cultural ties with six Turkic states, 15 Turkic territories and 47 Muslim-majority countries, historical connections with 44 states, and a diaspora ten million strong.

Non-factor, indeed.

Very useful inside the EU. Outside? Not so much.

 

[kochman]

I should have qualified it better...
They are nothing more than a regional power... they certainly aren't going to be the biggest influence on Greece! I have a hard time believing they will be the major player in the arabic speaking countries as well...

18th largest population

Irrelevant

17th largest economy

Irrelevant

6th largest army (2nd largest in NATO)

With some of the lowest quality troops in the world! Yeah! Quantity vs quality... they can't even keep the peace in their own lands. They have little power to export...

nuclear-armed as part of NATO's code share program

Those are US Nukes, are they not? We could pull them at a moments notice... Either way, they aren't Turkey's to use. Turkey is nothing more than a storage location.

strategic location between EU, Russia, the Caucasus and the Middle East

This is probably the most important thing they have going for them.

good reasons with pro-Western and anti-Western regimes

Good reasons? I'm guessing you meant relations...

shared cultural ties with six Turkic states

All of whom are even less important.

15 Turkic territories and 47 Muslim-majority countries

Again...

historical connections with 44 states

States of???

and a diaspora ten million strong.

Because 10 million people leave, you think that makes the country more important.

Non-factor, indeed.

Glad we could agree.
They are, at best, a regional power, in the official sense of the phrase.

 

[RedRalph]

Turkey is undoubtedly an important country.

 

[Cheetah]

Meanwhile, back in Libya...

Seems like the rebels have finally gotten far enough that they will actually win.

From what I've been reading a de facto siege on Tripoli and betting on a popular revolt of the inhabitants is the most likely plan. It might work.

I hope the Libyan Republic will be able to secure the peace afterwards however...

 

[Winner]

Very useful inside the EU. Outside? Not so much.

Useful as what? A nationalist Trojan horse? A final nail into the coffin of deeper integration?

 

[Winner]

Meanwhile, back in Libya...

Seems like the rebels have finally gotten far enough that they will actually win.

From what I've been reading a de facto siege on Tripoli and betting on a popular revolt of the inhabitants is the most likely plan. It might work.

Lovely.

Who's willing to bet when people start starving in Tripoli and someone blames the West for allowing it?

I hope the Libyan Republic will be able to secure the peace afterwards however...

Indeed. It would be very embarrassing if the new regime collapsed shortly after Gaddafi was deposed.

 

[Camikaze]

Just because they want the leader dead doesn't mean they want a foreign power doing it. Given our history of ejecting leaders we don't like and setting up our sordid little dictators in the Middle East, I don't think doing the same to Gaddafi would endear the populance to their new leaders.

Whilst certainly not saying that an assassination would be a good thing, I'm not sure I follow your logic. Presumably if they're more than happy to get help from the US in 'getting rid of Gaddafi', that would extend to killing him. If they're fine with the US bombing Gaddafi, I don't see how they'd draw a line in between that and killing him.

 

[Verbose]

Useful as what? A nationalist Trojan horse? A final nail into the coffin of deeper integration?

Do we want these places to be like us or not? Either Turkey and Central Asia is inside the EU orbit - politically, economically, socially - or it's outside it. Plenty useful as an insider, not as an outsider.

 

[Tee Kay]

They are nothing more than a regional power...

There are no truly global powers except for the UNSC Big Five, and the status of four of those are highly dubious.

All other countries can really hope to aspire to is the status of a regional power.

Irrelevant

Economy and population are irrelevant to a country's power. Okay...

With some of the lowest quality troops in the world! Yeah! Quantity vs quality...

Citation needed.

they can't even keep the peace in their own lands.

Like the United Kingdom. And Russia.

They have little power to export...

I guess there are some Cypriots who would disagree.

All of whom are even less important.

I glad you think securing the West's energy future is unimportant.

Because 10 million people leave, you think that makes the country more important.

And you don't understand how diasporas work.

Meanwhile, back in Libya...

Seems like the rebels have finally gotten far enough that they will actually win.

From what I've been reading a de facto siege on Tripoli and betting on a popular revolt of the inhabitants is the most likely plan. It might work.

I hope the Libyan Republic will be able to secure the peace afterwards however...

With NATO on their side, however haphazardly, it'd be amazing if the rebels lose.

Indeed. It would be very embarrassing if the new regime collapsed shortly after Gaddafi was deposed.

The new regime looks like it's on the road to collapse now.

Whilst certainly not saying that an assassination would be a good thing, I'm not sure I follow your logic. Presumably if they're more than happy to get help from the US in 'getting rid of Gaddafi', that would extend to killing him. If they're fine with the US bombing Gaddafi, I don't see how they'd draw a line in between that and killing him.

I think it's to give the impression that the rebellion was won by Libyan rebels, rather than NATO.