Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Got it. I'm looking at the save right now! 
LK149 - WM, Indonesia
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Midset report:
1475 BC - land the Warrior in the Philippines. He doesn't reveal anything of note.
Surabaya: Temple > Bangka
Russia completes Oracle
1450 BC - MM Jakarta to get a Settler a turn early.
Jakarta: Settlers
Medan: Bangkas
1425 BC - Russia has workers for sale again.
Persia demands 54 gold. I play it meek.
1400 BC - Warrior pops a barb hut in Philippines
We lose the Warrior to a barb
Aztecs complete the Pyramids.
1375 BC - Still no tech deals...
1350 BC - Australia and Persia both have Map Making now!
Unfortunately, we still can't afford Poly or MM at any price.
Questions:
1. Does anyone have thoughts on builds? I'm a little uncertain about building pure Settlers in Jakarta and mostly Bangkas everywhere else. OTOH, I'm not really sure what to build instead...
2. Is it really worth popping huts at this level? In hindsight, I wish I'd left the Philippines hut alone
3. Do we maybe want to move the Settler from the fish/whale spot and claim something else now that the AI has Map Making?
1475 BC - land the Warrior in the Philippines. He doesn't reveal anything of note.
Surabaya: Temple > Bangka
Russia completes Oracle
1450 BC - MM Jakarta to get a Settler a turn early.
Jakarta: Settlers
Medan: Bangkas
1425 BC - Russia has workers for sale again.
Persia demands 54 gold. I play it meek.
1400 BC - Warrior pops a barb hut in Philippines
We lose the Warrior to a barb
Aztecs complete the Pyramids.
1375 BC - Still no tech deals...
1350 BC - Australia and Persia both have Map Making now!
Unfortunately, we still can't afford Poly or MM at any price.
Questions:
1. Does anyone have thoughts on builds? I'm a little uncertain about building pure Settlers in Jakarta and mostly Bangkas everywhere else. OTOH, I'm not really sure what to build instead...
2. Is it really worth popping huts at this level? In hindsight, I wish I'd left the Philippines hut alone
3. Do we maybe want to move the Settler from the fish/whale spot and claim something else now that the AI has Map Making?
Attachments
Northern Pike
Deity
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Thanks for posting the midway save. 
1. Medan can switch immediately to warrior builds to garrison our new cities, especially since we're about to found an ungarrisoned town.
Surabaya can start a barracks after its Bangka. Two Bangkas to move units around our home waters should be enough for now.
2. It's barely worth popping huts at deity as a non-expansionist civ, but that warrior didn't have any other contribution to make, so don't worry about it.
3. It's hard to know what sites the AI will threaten most, so we might as well stick with the site our present settler has reached, and then send the next settler to the site on Borneo in my screenshot.
It's bad that we can't take advantage of the current tech asymmetries, but we may achieve a tremendous brokering position when we start to contact New World civs.
1. Medan can switch immediately to warrior builds to garrison our new cities, especially since we're about to found an ungarrisoned town.
Surabaya can start a barracks after its Bangka. Two Bangkas to move units around our home waters should be enough for now.2. It's barely worth popping huts at deity as a non-expansionist civ, but that warrior didn't have any other contribution to make, so don't worry about it.
3. It's hard to know what sites the AI will threaten most, so we might as well stick with the site our present settler has reached, and then send the next settler to the site on Borneo in my screenshot.
It's bad that we can't take advantage of the current tech asymmetries, but we may achieve a tremendous brokering position when we start to contact New World civs.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Re: tech - do you think it's worth selling HBR to the civs that don't know it yet? We could garner another 200g that way. It might be enough to buy MM or Poly, but that seems like a long shot.
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In general on the WM trying to get a tech is hard until somewhat known. Usually we get block of 5+ tech leaders, and that is when we can buy. Often we survive on the handful of backwards civs early in the game. We still haven't contacted the Americas whom tend to be slower in tech.
Persia and Australia are NOT the ones I wanted to see to map making first! Horses at the end of our island and the last of Asia have become high priority. My vote is fish / whale next. To get domination on the make we need that strong foothold in Asia. After that horses (we need some resources) and the last spot in Asia.
Can our city on Borneo build the settler for the other site? It would be nice to be able to walk a settler over.
Persia and Australia are NOT the ones I wanted to see to map making first! Horses at the end of our island and the last of Asia have become high priority. My vote is fish / whale next. To get domination on the make we need that strong foothold in Asia. After that horses (we need some resources) and the last spot in Asia.
Can our city on Borneo build the settler for the other site? It would be nice to be able to walk a settler over.
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I just loaded the game up to take a look.
1) We should be contacting the American civs soon. We can see Alaska.
2) The ship by northern Africa may want to go to the med. Not our typical, but we are still missing Egypt that tends to be a tech leader.
3) Surabaya really got screwed with that disease hit. It can't swap to settler yet.
4) I like NP's idea of Medan to warrior and stock piling some units. At some point we need to get to spears, but one task at a time.
5) I agree with NP that the naked city is scary. I would send our ship to grab a warrior from Borneo. We should be able to get a unit there in three turns.
6) Jakarata still needs the cow irrigated to hit +5 food.
7) Normally holiday week ends are a pain, but this is early enough I can right after Elephantium.
1) We should be contacting the American civs soon. We can see Alaska.
2) The ship by northern Africa may want to go to the med. Not our typical, but we are still missing Egypt that tends to be a tech leader.
3) Surabaya really got screwed with that disease hit. It can't swap to settler yet.
4) I like NP's idea of Medan to warrior and stock piling some units. At some point we need to get to spears, but one task at a time.
5) I agree with NP that the naked city is scary. I would send our ship to grab a warrior from Borneo. We should be able to get a unit there in three turns.
6) Jakarata still needs the cow irrigated to hit +5 food.
7) Normally holiday week ends are a pain, but this is early enough I can right after Elephantium.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Surabaya: Bangka > Barracks
1325 BC - Build Tangarang. Move Warrior to get picked up from Borneo next turn.
Move Workers to irrigate the cow.
Jakarta: Settlers
Medan: Warriors
1300 BC - We meet someone new.
"My name is Sioux! How do you do!" they yell.
We're up HBR; they have 61 gold and 18 cities.
Bandung: Warriors
1275 BC - our Atlantic Bangka meets Egypt. They have Poly -- and LACK Writing AND Horseback Riding!
I also notice that India and Persia now have Philosophy.
Now for trades:
I buy Poly from Egypt for HBR, Writing, and 230 gold.
That lets me sell Poly to Persia for Philosophy and 40 gold.
Next, we get Map Making and 5g from Australia for Poly & Phil.
We get Mathematics from Russia in exchange for Poly.
Now, Egypt has 338 gold.
Babylon has 91.
Songhai has 106.
France has 85.
Germany has 59.
Sioux have 67.
I'm tempted to sell Mathematics around to everyone to net some gold and encourage AIs to research Construction, but I'm concerned that our gold stockpile will just be a huge target for AI demands.
Also, I'm not sure what to research next -- I'm waffling between Lit and Currency.
I'm going to hand this off now to let LK play this weekend; I'm going to see family this evening, and I might not have time to play again until Monday.
1325 BC - Build Tangarang. Move Warrior to get picked up from Borneo next turn.
Move Workers to irrigate the cow.
Jakarta: Settlers
Medan: Warriors
1300 BC - We meet someone new.
"My name is Sioux! How do you do!" they yell.
We're up HBR; they have 61 gold and 18 cities.
Bandung: Warriors
1275 BC - our Atlantic Bangka meets Egypt. They have Poly -- and LACK Writing AND Horseback Riding!
I also notice that India and Persia now have Philosophy.
Now for trades:
I buy Poly from Egypt for HBR, Writing, and 230 gold.
That lets me sell Poly to Persia for Philosophy and 40 gold.
Next, we get Map Making and 5g from Australia for Poly & Phil.
We get Mathematics from Russia in exchange for Poly.
Now, Egypt has 338 gold.
Babylon has 91.
Songhai has 106.
France has 85.
Germany has 59.
Sioux have 67.
I'm tempted to sell Mathematics around to everyone to net some gold and encourage AIs to research Construction, but I'm concerned that our gold stockpile will just be a huge target for AI demands.
Also, I'm not sure what to research next -- I'm waffling between Lit and Currency.
I'm going to hand this off now to let LK play this weekend; I'm going to see family this evening, and I might not have time to play again until Monday.
Northern Pike
Deity
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A fine tech breakthrough. 
This isn't a reason not to grab all the gold we can, which is an essential part of a brokering game. My grandfather used to say that it's better to be rich enough to have tax problems than to have no tax problems because you've got no money, and the same principle applies here.
Literature is a cheap tech leading to nothing we need at the moment, and rarely a good choice.
This isn't a reason not to grab all the gold we can, which is an essential part of a brokering game. My grandfather used to say that it's better to be rich enough to have tax problems than to have no tax problems because you've got no money, and the same principle applies here.
Literature is a cheap tech leading to nothing we need at the moment, and rarely a good choice.
Northern Pike
Deity
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On further review, it's a close call whether Surabaya should build the barracks I suggested or one of our cheap harbours first. So LK, by all means switch to the harbour if you think that's better.
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1275 BC (0)
I start a 50 turn run on monarchy. At some point we will be in heavy war mode, so I want the right govt available.
I swap Surabaya to harbor.
Bandung goes to worker, as we need a ton of them.
Egypt gets math for $338. Songhai get horseback riding for $106.
1175 BC (4)
I surprised we can get a tech know by only 2 civs. Philosphy and polytheism go to Babylon for code of laws and $166.
Egypt gets the better end of the deal, but I give them philosphy to grab another worker. This jungle is killing us.
1150 BC (5)
Depok is formed giving us another city in SE Asia. Hopefully the Indian settler will turn around and not build an annoying city near us. It pops a hut for useless maps.
(IT) India turns around.
Now we need to impatiently wait for the temples in that area.
I give in to China, and give him horseback riding. No way can 5 warriors survive a deity rush.
1100 BC (7)
We finally meet Mongolia. We are ahead by 2 techs.
We give the Songhai polytheism for worker and $30.
1075 BC (8)
Now Mongolia has a ton of cash, and is tech even.
1050 BC (9)
We have contract with the Aztecs.
1025 BC (10)
Semarang is formed securing a source of horses.
Summary:
The two workers on the ship are heading to help in SE Asia.
The settler on the hill is heading toward the warrior on our island for a hopeful decent production spot.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Northern Pike (up)
Greebley (on deck)
Elephantium
I start a 50 turn run on monarchy. At some point we will be in heavy war mode, so I want the right govt available.
I swap Surabaya to harbor.
Bandung goes to worker, as we need a ton of them.
Egypt gets math for $338. Songhai get horseback riding for $106.
1175 BC (4)
I surprised we can get a tech know by only 2 civs. Philosphy and polytheism go to Babylon for code of laws and $166.
Egypt gets the better end of the deal, but I give them philosphy to grab another worker. This jungle is killing us.
1150 BC (5)
Depok is formed giving us another city in SE Asia. Hopefully the Indian settler will turn around and not build an annoying city near us. It pops a hut for useless maps.
(IT) India turns around.
Now we need to impatiently wait for the temples in that area.
I give in to China, and give him horseback riding. No way can 5 warriors survive a deity rush.
1100 BC (7)
We finally meet Mongolia. We are ahead by 2 techs.
We give the Songhai polytheism for worker and $30.
1075 BC (8)
Now Mongolia has a ton of cash, and is tech even.
1050 BC (9)
We have contract with the Aztecs.
1025 BC (10)
Semarang is formed securing a source of horses.
Summary:
The two workers on the ship are heading to help in SE Asia.
The settler on the hill is heading toward the warrior on our island for a hopeful decent production spot.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Northern Pike (up)
Greebley (on deck)
Elephantium
Northern Pike
Deity
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Looks good.
I've got it.
I've got it.
Northern Pike
Deity
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View attachment 351464, end of turn
Northern Pike
Deity
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1025 (0): Medan worker --> warrior.
975 (2): Jakarta settler --> settler.
950 (3): Our North Atlantic Bangka reaches Greenland.
Construction is in play--independently discovered in the Old World (Germany) and the New (Aztecs) on the same turn. We send CoL, Polytheism, and Map Making to Germany for Construction and 85 gold, then sell Construction to the Mongols for 548 gold.
Medan warrior --> warrior.
925 (4): We found Palembang six tiles NW of Jakarta, on a hilly site that should eventually be shield-strong.
875 (6): We found Djokjakarta on my preferred site in north Borneo. It has two BG, a whale, and jungle fruit.
We can see the ruins of a city the Aztecs have razed, so presumably we'll meet their enemies soon.
Jakarta settler --> settler, Medan warrior --> warrior.
850 (7): Surabaya barracks --> spearman, Bandung harbour --> barracks.
The Indians sneak a city onto our home island, on a worthless site south of Semarang. This is probably good, since it means we should be able to start any war with India by taking this city and their iron town in Thailand, inflicting enough pain that a minimum we'll be able to end the war whenever we want.
825 (8): Our New World Bangka makes contact with the Venuzuelans, who are taking a tremendous hammering from the Aztecs--three razed cities that we can see. They're far off the pace technologically, but we sell them Philosophy for 212 gold.
775 (10): We found Makassar on Celebes, the six-tile island just east of our home island. It has...well, it has one tile that's forest rather than g_____n jungle so it can build a harbour quickly.
Our North Atlantic Bangka reaches Canada and meets the Americans. They're broke and mildly backward (by Polytheism and Construction), a useless contact for now.
Jakarta settler --> settler.
750 (11): Our New World Bangka makes contact with the Brazilians, and we know the whole world apart from the Argentines. The Brazilians are very backward, and all we can do is sell them Philosophy for 106 gold.
Our warrior wandering through Siberia pops a hut and gets barbs. Well, the warrior had no other function at this point.
975 (2): Jakarta settler --> settler.
950 (3): Our North Atlantic Bangka reaches Greenland.
Construction is in play--independently discovered in the Old World (Germany) and the New (Aztecs) on the same turn. We send CoL, Polytheism, and Map Making to Germany for Construction and 85 gold, then sell Construction to the Mongols for 548 gold.
Medan warrior --> warrior.
925 (4): We found Palembang six tiles NW of Jakarta, on a hilly site that should eventually be shield-strong.
875 (6): We found Djokjakarta on my preferred site in north Borneo. It has two BG, a whale, and jungle fruit.
We can see the ruins of a city the Aztecs have razed, so presumably we'll meet their enemies soon.
Jakarta settler --> settler, Medan warrior --> warrior.
850 (7): Surabaya barracks --> spearman, Bandung harbour --> barracks.
The Indians sneak a city onto our home island, on a worthless site south of Semarang. This is probably good, since it means we should be able to start any war with India by taking this city and their iron town in Thailand, inflicting enough pain that a minimum we'll be able to end the war whenever we want.
825 (8): Our New World Bangka makes contact with the Venuzuelans, who are taking a tremendous hammering from the Aztecs--three razed cities that we can see. They're far off the pace technologically, but we sell them Philosophy for 212 gold.
775 (10): We found Makassar on Celebes, the six-tile island just east of our home island. It has...well, it has one tile that's forest rather than g_____n jungle so it can build a harbour quickly.
Our North Atlantic Bangka reaches Canada and meets the Americans. They're broke and mildly backward (by Polytheism and Construction), a useless contact for now.
Jakarta settler --> settler.
750 (11): Our New World Bangka makes contact with the Brazilians, and we know the whole world apart from the Argentines. The Brazilians are very backward, and all we can do is sell them Philosophy for 106 gold.
Our warrior wandering through Siberia pops a hut and gets barbs. Well, the warrior had no other function at this point.
Northern Pike
Deity
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Growing like a weed:
Northern Pike
Deity
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We remain in the tech lead, and we hold most of the gold in the world. Currency is the only mandatory AA tech we lack, and our hope now is that it'll appear while Construction (or in the Americas, Polytheism) still has some trade value. Alternatively, we could sell Construction around for about 600 gold; I don't know the nuances of this mod well enough to judge whether that's an attractive return.
I'd suggest that the settler now outside Jakarta should found our first city in the Philippines, at 1 on the screenshot--the forest south of the hill, where we'd be ignoring the whales for the sake of a site which might be half decent in shields eventually. We can ship-chain a little with two Bangkas to speed the process up, although the convoy will probably have to wait a turn to pick up a garrison unit from Surabaya.
We can address our worker shortage easily by producing a worker out of Jakarta every other turn for as long as we want; we'll just have to give up on settler production for a while to do it. After we've produced one more settler for the Philippines, I think it might be time. We shouldn't build any more workers in towns other than Jakarta, since we need to let them grow.
By opening and closing the Malacca Strait (between Tangerang and Palambang) on alternate turns with the Bangka in the area, we can keep at least the Indian galley visible off Semarang yo-yoing back and forth endlessly, and I think the same thing happens with two more distant Indian galleys. That could mean three settlers we're keeping away from our islands, so it's worth doing for a while. Next turn we'll be closing the strait.
Surabaya is about to become unhappy with the addition of its fifth citizen.
Our warrior outside Tangerang can move up the road to reinforce Bandung.
I'd suggest that the settler now outside Jakarta should found our first city in the Philippines, at 1 on the screenshot--the forest south of the hill, where we'd be ignoring the whales for the sake of a site which might be half decent in shields eventually. We can ship-chain a little with two Bangkas to speed the process up, although the convoy will probably have to wait a turn to pick up a garrison unit from Surabaya.
We can address our worker shortage easily by producing a worker out of Jakarta every other turn for as long as we want; we'll just have to give up on settler production for a while to do it. After we've produced one more settler for the Philippines, I think it might be time. We shouldn't build any more workers in towns other than Jakarta, since we need to let them grow.
By opening and closing the Malacca Strait (between Tangerang and Palambang) on alternate turns with the Bangka in the area, we can keep at least the Indian galley visible off Semarang yo-yoing back and forth endlessly, and I think the same thing happens with two more distant Indian galleys. That could mean three settlers we're keeping away from our islands, so it's worth doing for a while. Next turn we'll be closing the strait.
Surabaya is about to become unhappy with the addition of its fifth citizen.
Our warrior outside Tangerang can move up the road to reinforce Bandung.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,062
Summary:
This game is highly atypical for tech. Usually we suffer in the AA, and are scrounging for any possible trade with the backwards AI. Being the tech leader really feels odd to say the least.
Seeing this much positive cash flow is also odd. I think we are already seeing the effects of commercial.
I'm not sure if I want to totally stop settlers. I want northern Philippines and the island east of Makassar. That island won't last long before Australia claims it. Maybe flip between settlers and workers. Plus peel from cities that exceed their happy cap.
Overall another great set. Hopefully Greebley can find some more workers for sale.
ROSTER:
LKendter
Northern Pike (just played)
Greebley (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
This game is highly atypical for tech. Usually we suffer in the AA, and are scrounging for any possible trade with the backwards AI. Being the tech leader really feels odd to say the least.
Seeing this much positive cash flow is also odd. I think we are already seeing the effects of commercial.
I'm not sure if I want to totally stop settlers. I want northern Philippines and the island east of Makassar. That island won't last long before Australia claims it. Maybe flip between settlers and workers. Plus peel from cities that exceed their happy cap.
Overall another great set. Hopefully Greebley can find some more workers for sale.
ROSTER:
LKendter
Northern Pike (just played)
Greebley (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I could actually find time to play again today if we want me to swap with Greebley for this round.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Got it.
What do you think of moving the Philippines city site 1SW? That will put it CxxC from the site for the whales -- just about perfect spacing.
What do you think of moving the Philippines city site 1SW? That will put it CxxC from the site for the whales -- just about perfect spacing.
Northern Pike
Deity
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I didn't make that choice because it would move the principal city out of range of the fish, which represent its best chance at a food surplus. But it's a close call, and if you prefer your suggested spacing, that's fine.
