LK154 - CCM - Bablyon

[Northern Pike]

We build Supply Centre Wines in Shanghai.

The Israelites complete Arms Race; receive two untradeable techs from the six possibilities Fascism, Steel, Marine Engineering, Electricity, Atomic Theory, and Radio; and so become the global tech leaders. So our decision was correct—we could never have beaten them to AR.

The Canadians default to National Monument, so that’s out of reach too.


1772 (10): We sell Steam Power to Egypt for 18 gold and 59 gpt.

We unhorse a cav and a hussar landed next to Axum by the Nubians (46-16).

Including the upcoming interturn, we built fifteen steam engines, eight academies, eight royal barracks, six libraries, six town centres, five National Symbols, three universities, three town clocks, three walls, two hospitals, two aqueducts, one courthouse, and one railyard this round.

Three mullah victories this round didn’t yield a monk.

Two lawyer victories this round didn’t generate a Great Artist.

Nine elite victories this round produced two Great Leaders.

 

[Northern Pike]

The coming storm:

 

[Northern Pike]

Strategy and Tactics

In two turns we can strike into the heart of the Inca empire, taking a route Vilcas --> Vilcabamba --> (possibly the city NW of Vilcabamba) --> Cuzco. All our attack units won’t be on the border at that point, but they’ll catch up quickly. Our big stack of fast units now most useful for suppressing resistance on the safe interturn—slavers, mullahs, elite knights, etc.—will be able to reach Vilcas in two turns, provided it’s been taken.

For our strike at Vilcas we’ll need to build a road as indicated on the screenshot, which our one-turn roading team (now a little W of Nantes) can’t do next turn, but can do as our first action on the turn of the attack (1776 AD). We’ll also need a garrison as indicated; there are plenty of foreign workers and slaves in the area. Apart from the main stack we’ll need a few cav in Tatung to take out the pikeman manning Vilcas’s garrison.

We have a reserve of cav and hussars positioned just outside Napata, intended as recapture forces in case any of our Nubian towns flip again. We could also use them for a quick strike against (Inca) Delphi and Piraeus if the next player would like to try that, but they shouldn’t leave the area entirely.

We have units stationed just outside Kerma, and between Ballana and Dongola, so they can’t be lost in flips. They can move into cities as necessary once we’re at war with the Incas.

We’ll need to make sure our cav unit making a reconnaissance of the Inca lands is back across our borders when we strike, so that it doesn’t count as a sneak attack.

Bear in mind that we’re also at war with the Germans and Austro-Hungarians, wherever they are.


Tech, Trade, and Our Golden Age

We’re caught up in known-world techs that are also tradeable/visible, meaning that no other civ has Corporation or Industrialization yet. We know that the Israelites have at least two invisible techs, and other advanced civs might have them.

We’ll discover Corporation (meaning double-speed workers) in five turns, and if we’re lucky we’ll be able to exchange it for Industrialization, the last tech-for-tech trade we can make. Selling it to the rich civs would also be good.

Our Battlefield Medicine pre-build in Nineveh represents an attempt to trigger our GA by building Blue Riband, which can only be constructed in a coastal city. The idea is that after we discover Corporation we’ll research Marine Engineering, which will probably take eight or even seven turns at that point, and then build BR the moment we discover ME. This isn’t guaranteed to work, particularly if the Israelites have taken ME as one of their free techs from Arms Race, but the reward/risk ratio is so good—a Golden Age we can’t otherwise see how to get, versus a few hundred wasted shields—that I think we should try it.

If the pre-build in Nineveh looks as though it’s getting ahead of our research on ME, we can reassign some engineers there.

In two turns (1776 AD) moderate payments we’re receiving from Greece and Mongolia will run out, so we should be certain to sell them more techs then.

We shouldn’t take any of the deals available for our resources and luxuries from the tech leaders, unless it’s necessary to complete a tech trade. The benefit to our enemies would be too great relative to the modest amounts they’re offering.


Miscellaneous

We’re building one-turn hussars in Ellipi, because the city can reach 70 spt but not 80. We don’t want to make a lot of attacks with hussars now, but they can replace infantry types as second garrison units in cities, and then upgrade to armoured cars when that becomes possible.

Except on a small scale at Babylon, we haven’t started work on our rail net. Building rails very slowly before double-speed and buildable workers is of limited value, IMO.

We have the Small Wonder Capitol available, but the problem is that it does the same thing as Great Palace, and we know that Great Palace doesn’t work. Even if we choose to be optimistic and build Capitol, it should go in a city more distant than any we hold yet, perhaps the Incas’ size-27 capital.

Please add two foreign workers from the tile W of Aniba to the roading stack on an oasis two tiles NE of Kerma first thing next turn, to avoid inefficiency.

Shanghai will probably need a happiness adjustment after it grows this interturn.

We should micromanage Umi strictly for +5 food and quick growth, since it has a hospital. We should develop Hangchow for +5 food, even if this means cutting down a forest, for the same reason.

 

[Northern Pike]

Becuase I am not familiar with all the CMM rules, could you swap ? Arms Race is a great wonder and Battlefield Medicine is a small wonder? I could not swap small wonders on my last turnset.

Yes--we can do this, as the Blue Riband scheme described above requires, provided that the pre-build has no tainted shields from a Leader rush or forest chops. I believe that in the case you mention the city had received shields from a Leader rush.

 

[LKendter]

ROSTER:

LKendter (up)
Greebley (on deck)
Jersey Joe
Elephantium
Northern Pike

 

[Greebley]

We should try building 2 (or more?) buildings that reduce corruption in the great palace city. I think without the 'second palace' benefit, it may just make the maximum corruption 25%. If we can build the courthouse and town hall that may reduce it by 10% (so at most 5%) - Something like that; I don't know if the numbers are exactly right....

i.e. If this is true, limiting corruption to at most 25% will appear to do nothing until you build the other courthouse type buildings.

[Edit: so most cities will always have 5% uncorrupted no matter how far from the capitol; 2nd capitol adds 70% and other buildings add 10% to that 5% for 95% uncorrupted with the two buildings is vanila civ. Police station may add 15% as I thought corruption might vanish with both]

 

[LKendter]

1772 AD (0)
I can tell we are getting into the late part of the game. I could take a nap waiting for the initial game load.

I agree with the ASAP path for techs including a painful diversion to marine engineering for a possible GA. I am to the point that I want to be able to start building workers above all and marine engineering delays that.
The main reason I went with Nubia was to get the cash for unit upgrades. It is frustrating to be burning the cash for tech pace delayed tons of upgrades.
(IT) We get kicked by the Inca. We won't have to worry about the cavalry taking a look.
The Indochinese drop an annoying city in former Scandinavia.
MAJOR ugh - the Canadian's are building Blue Riband.


1774 AD (1)
Elite lawyer takes out a reg cav giving us another artist.



1776 AD (2)
I am waiting one more turn for the attack on Inca. The troop count still feels light.
I sell Mongolia absolutism for $73 and $96/T.
I sell Greece democracy for $63 and $99/T.
Everyone else is broke or offering meaningless cash.
(IT) I have no idea why we lost a supply of elephants.
Canada completes the Great Monument.

 

[LKendter]

1778 AD (3)
Our Great Pirate ships a Mongol ship. (1-0)
We dial up the Inca, and give them bad news - WAR.
Cavalry destroys pike and the garrison. (2-0)
Cavalry dies to Villista. (2-1)
Cavalry dies to Villista. (2-2)
Cavalry kills Villista and goes elite. (3-2)
Cavalry kills Villista. (4-2)
Cavalry dies to Villista. (4-3)
Cavalry dies to Villista. (4-4)
Cavalry dies to Villista. (4-5)
Cavalry kills Villista. (5-5)
Vilcas has fallen for a high unit cost giving us just $1.

Cavalry kills Villista. (6-5)
Named Hussar kills a pike. (7-5)
Argos is captured for $1.

Elite lawyer kills a pike. (8-5)

Indochina suddenly has cash, so I sell them naval power for $48 and $74/T.
(IT) I am not sure why Indochina has a large stack of infantry wandering near our borders. I didn't see any attack units in the stack.

 

[LKendter]

1780 AD (4)
Knight kills cavalry. (9-5)
That was the only unit I saw cross our borders from the Inca.

Hussar kills a pike. (10-5)
Hussar kills a pike. (11-5)
Ica is captured for no money.
(IT) The discovery of corporation made the forbidden palace obsolete. I am not sure how much that was doing for us.
Our exploring hussar was killed by a villista. (11-6)
2 villista died attacking our stack by Vilcamba. (13-6)
The stack of units reversed direction.

 

[LKendter]

1781 AD (5)
Cavalry killed a villista that wandered into former Nubia. (14-6)

We sell Israel corporation for $13,625. Canada gets it for $7,050. America gets it for $6,550.
~3,700 of that goes away for musket upgrades.

Cavalry kills meso fire lancer breaking a garrison. (15-6)
Heavy artillery dies to villista. (15-7)
Cannon kills villista. (16-7)
Schneider75 kills villista. (17-7)
Cannon dies to villista. (17-8)
Lawyer kills 1 HP villista giving us an artist. (18-8)
Mullah barely kills 1 HP cavalry. (19-8)
Vilcamba is captured for $1.

Cavalry kills villista. (20-8)
Cavalry kills villista. (21-8)
Knight kills mesofirelancer. (22-8)
Atico is captured.

Cavalry barely kills villista. (23-8)
Cavalry kills villista. (24-8)
With too many retreats, Nasca holds for another round.
I burned an artist at Vilcamba to get the Incan capitol closer to range for attacks.

I am really enjoying double speed workers. It feels like the worker choke is starting to go away.
(IT) We lost a cavalry, and 1900 infantry. (24-10)
Canada is building Wall Street.

 

[LKendter]

1782 AD (6)
Cavalry kills villista. (25-10)
Nasca is captured.

Cavalry kills cavalry and goes elite. (26-10)
(IT) We lost 1 cavalry and 2 infantry. (26-13)
We killed 2 cavalry. (28-13)
Spain is so pathetic they now have zero GPT to give for furs.
Israel and USA sign an MPP. That makes Israel a lot less appealing as a short-term target.
USA declares on Indochina.
More YUCK - USA is building Blue Ribband.
France builds a nuisance town in former Scandinavia.

I am still plugging away - just wanted to post what was done so far

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for the midway report--always enjoyable.

It's unfortunate that the Canadians and Americans are building Blue Riband, but we have a good head start on the US and Canada's coastal cities are shield-poor, IIRC. I'm sure we could afford to investigate both Blue Riband cities and see exactly where we stand, if you'd like to do that.

With Canada having just built National Monument, I don't think we can be beaten by a cascade to BR.

 

[Civinator]

The discovery of corporation made the forbidden palace obsolete. I am not sure how much that was doing for us.

With tech corporation the Doge Palace is becoming obsolete. The Great Palace (=Forbidden Palace) never becomes obsolete. To reduce the mix-up between the Doge Palace and the Great Palace, in the next version of CCM the Doge Palace is named "The Arsenal" and receives the graphics of the Arsenal of Venice.

 

[Northern Pike]

Civinator, pardon me for correcting you about your own mod , but so that an already confusing situation doesn't become more confusing:

1. Forbidden Palace is a China-only Great Wonder in CCM, and not the same thing as Great Palace. We hold it due to our conquest of China, and it did just go obsolete with Corporation.

2. Great Palace is a Small Wonder that any civ can build. We've just built it in Shanghai and it evidently doesn't work (but see Greebley's theory above).

3. Doge Palace does become obsolete with Corporation, but we don't hold it.

4. Just to complete this list for future reference, Capitol is a Small Wonder with the same claimed function as Great Palace, but since GP doesn't seem to work I'm skeptical that Capitol does either.

 

[Jersey Joe]

1780 AD
(IT) The discovery of corporation made the forbidden palace obsolete. I am not sure how much that was doing for us.

The only effect I could see from the Forbidden Palace was that it acts as a barracks. NP took care of that lose by building a Royal Barracks in Beijing.

I do not know where the US is building the Blue Riband, but Miami beat Nineveh to the last "Ocean" based wonder we went after. As I recall, Canada did not have any coastal cities that could produce more than 5-6 shields per turn.

 

[Northern Pike]

We should be only seven turns away from ME/BR, or possibly even six. BR costs deity civs 240 shields, and the Americans have one turn invested in it, but the way the interturn works we win ties. Putting all that together, America's BR city would have to produce 35 spt to beat us to BR. That seems theoretically just possible but quite unlikely for a coastal city suffering the tile penalty in theocracy--in fact, if we assume at least four water tiles yielding no shields, I think it is impossible.

Edit: The above estimate may not sufficiently allow for the possibility that the American BR city has all three possible production-boosting improvements, but I still think the odds are in our favour.

BTW, I shouldn't have suggested that we can investigate America's BR city, since they're in theocracy.

 

[Civinator]

Civinator, pardon me for correcting you about your own mod , but so that an already confusing situation doesn't become more confusing:

Forbidden Palace is a China-only Great Wonder in CCM, and not the same thing as Great Palace. We hold it due to our conquest of China, and it did just go obsolete with Corporation.

Yes,you are right. I have to be careful not to mix up 1.8 and the new version of CCM that I´m currently working on. In the next version of CCM that wonder doesn´t exist any longer, as it becomes a culturspecific graphical form of the Great Palace for asiatic civilizations - but in CCM 1.8 it is still existing. When looking on that wonder in the editor, the GW Forbidden Palace in 1.8 has the barracks options, gives two culture, provides 1 happiness to every city, increases the change of Leader Appearance and works as a tourist attraction. It doesn´t reduce any corruption.

The tourist attraction bonus should stay, when the GW is going obsolete.

The Capitol reduces corruption in all cities and gives two culture to the city where it is built.

Edit: When looking at the settings of the Great Palace (version 1.8) in the editor, this SW only reduces corruption and is resistant to propaganda in the city where it is built (and not for all cities), additionally to providing 5 culture and two happiness to the city, increasing the change of leader appearance and becoming a tourist attraction.

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for the clarification.

What exactly is necessary to look at a Wonder (or anything else) in the editor as you describe? Is there a download?

 

[Civinator]

Thanks for the clarification.

What exactly is necessary to look at a Wonder (or anything else) in the editor as you describe? Is there a download?

Northern Pike, you only have to open the biq with the editor. Use editor version 1.00 that comes with C3C vanilla -if you use editor 1.03 (the version of the editor after the last patch) and change something in the settings of the biq, C3C looses the option to create scientific leaders due to a bug in the patch.

In my last post I added the settings for the Great Palace in version 1.8 (in the next version of CCM it will additionally reduce corruption in all cities again).

I will look for a screenshot to add about handling the editor for buildings.

Edited: It took some time to find an existing screenshot about handling the editor for buildings. Below is a screenshot when I first explained the - at that time new - advanced autoproduction of units that was introduced to Civ 3 modding with CCM. In the screenshot you can see all functions when looking - and may be changing - buildings and wonders in the C3C editor:

Spoiler :

The editor is in the C3C mainfile, named Civ3ConquestsEdit.1.00. If you have the updated version Civ3ConquestsEdit (that´s the bugged version 1.03), be careful and don´t save any changes in the biq, otherwise the biq will loose the possibility to create scientific leaders.

 

[Northern Pike]

Great--thank you.