That's a good point. Fishing boats on a reef could get very good yields.
[GS] Māori Discussion Thread
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darkace77450
Emperor
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I hope that's the case.
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The Maori are going to have a very skewed impression of what makes a good start:
"Look at all these beautiful reefs!"
Sostratus
Deity
That was my reaction!
When I realized it probably wont come at ironworking, then I thought, well, thats okay; varu are in the game and they aren't that game breaking. But:
india doesn't have the production bonuses Maori do;
and varu are still vulnerable to anticav like pikes and pike'n'shot;
and varu can't get +8 from oligarchy.
The fort building is probably a bit limited for offensive warmongering (plop a couple after taking a city to heal quick) unless they can use that charge to chop in conquest lands. But varu have the same stats as the Toa (40str, 2 move, -5 aura) but toa can also build Pa. For reference, legions cost 110 vs 90 for swords, and varu cost 120 vs 80 for horsemen. Toa should cost even more than varu.
We'll have to see what they cost and what tech they come at- although getting 2 free techs from the top of the tree, Maori have some flexibility to rush these guys. Regardless, they are IMO still superior to every medieval melee UU so far. If they give them a muskets upgrade... oh boy!
BarbarianHunter
SPAMBO
I haven't though the whole thing through, but I think the district will be helpful for culture generation but not necessarily as potent for a CV. The thing is with having a "similar cultural output to a few great works" is, that you actually have to build the theatre square and ampitheatre then recruit a limited supply of ever increasing in cost great writers. With the Māori, they just spam theatre districts and arrive at the same result.
Sostratus
Deity
If they now allow jungle to spawn on grassland, that seems like a big boost to Maori. Sail over to grassy jungle. Settle. Reap the endless 3 food, 1 production tiles. Pedro rage quits
I think he's referring to the five forms of renewable energy.
nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Can't they?
The Oligarchy bonus is for melee units, and the Varu is cavalry.
criZp
Deity
cavalry can't, no.
Sostratus
Deity
It only applies to land melee line (warriors+) anticav and naval melee as of R&F
If only this happened:
"Forget New Zealand, take a right and head towards Australia. I heard there is a great big one there."
nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Plenty of Maori have done just that lol.
Hydroelectric, geothermal, solar, wind and what? Fusion?
Sostratus
Deity
This is why i think the toa is potentially problematic:
Consider Toa vs Shaka's impi corps, generally considered medieval bruisers
40
+10 vs anticav
+5 from haka alpha dominance dance
+8 from oligarchy and legacy
=63.
Impi corps with oligarchy
41
+10 from corps
+5 from shaka's loincloth (zulu corps bonus)
+8 from oligarchy and legacy
=64.
An impi corps costs ~250 production.
Even without using pikes here, Toa can outhit knights by 5 (53 v 48), Black Army as seen so far by 3, only losing to samurai (by just 3) in the middle ages. And the toa can get tortoise to fend off crossbows (and battlecry to be cruel.)
They got some teeth on them jade clubs!
Consider Toa vs Shaka's impi corps, generally considered medieval bruisers
40
+10 vs anticav
+5 from haka alpha dominance dance
+8 from oligarchy and legacy
=63.
Impi corps with oligarchy
41
+10 from corps
+5 from shaka's loincloth (zulu corps bonus)
+8 from oligarchy and legacy
=64.
An impi corps costs ~250 production.
Even without using pikes here, Toa can outhit knights by 5 (53 v 48), Black Army as seen so far by 3, only losing to samurai (by just 3) in the middle ages. And the toa can get tortoise to fend off crossbows (and battlecry to be cruel.)
They got some teeth on them jade clubs!
Leathaface
Emperor
I wonder if a Toa unit fortified in a Pa will be able to hold off a Knight?
Oh boy, that'd be totally awesome. Having the terrace farm in Civ VI would be sweet, but Irrigation for free would be the icing on the cake. Being able to improve your plantations immediately would also be a bonus.
Oh boy, that'd be totally awesome. Having the terrace farm in Civ VI would be sweet, but Irrigation for free would be the icing on the cake. Being able to improve your plantations immediately would also be a bonus.
nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
It's an interesting comparison as Toa and Impi existed at a similar time in world history. Civ VI has gone down the path of placing native UU's all over the show i.e. The Eagle Warriors and the Toa in era's they didn't exist; but where it feels like they should exist if their cultures were around at the dawn of time. Impi's & that Brazilian battleship on the other hand have been included in an era they really existed in; but then buffed them up to be stronger than similar more powerful real world rivals.
I'm probably biased; but I think if they had enough numbers the Maori would have smashed the Zulu in real world combat in the 19th century. Of course their UU's should never meet in Civ, ironically.
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nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Maybe they'll be able to farm on hills sooner than everyone else too...
drubell
Prince
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This is a weird civ that is incredibly good in the first few eras and then get progressively worse relatively to all the other civs in the later eras due to their restrictions. You have massive bonuses at the start, with great yields, free builder, and very strong melee unit (which unfortunately must be hard-built).
Unless the culture victory is changed, Maori are laughably awful with the culture victory, which is unfortunate since their UB is an amphitheater. I guess the building would be valuable for progressing through the Civics tree quickly (provided you get the passable features for it), but then you're going to want to stop building theater district buildings because, from where I sit, building museums for Maori would be a waste of time because you will always be behind everyone else in tourism and your hammers can be better spent.
Like, this civ comes off as one where you NEED to take advantage of your massive early bonuses and conquer, because if you play passively at the start you're going to be feeling a lot of pressure in the end game due to restrictions. And that's good because the Maori have a lot of bonuses to early conquest. Their units can embark very quickly and are speedier than actual ships. With the extra culture from the start, you're likely to get to Oligarchy sooner than any other civ outside of maybe Rome.
And then by the Renaissance, well, you better have taken the land you want because there's really not much special about the Maori then except for the free production bonus from forests.
Unless the culture victory is changed, Maori are laughably awful with the culture victory, which is unfortunate since their UB is an amphitheater. I guess the building would be valuable for progressing through the Civics tree quickly (provided you get the passable features for it), but then you're going to want to stop building theater district buildings because, from where I sit, building museums for Maori would be a waste of time because you will always be behind everyone else in tourism and your hammers can be better spent.
Like, this civ comes off as one where you NEED to take advantage of your massive early bonuses and conquer, because if you play passively at the start you're going to be feeling a lot of pressure in the end game due to restrictions. And that's good because the Maori have a lot of bonuses to early conquest. Their units can embark very quickly and are speedier than actual ships. With the extra culture from the start, you're likely to get to Oligarchy sooner than any other civ outside of maybe Rome.
And then by the Renaissance, well, you better have taken the land you want because there's really not much special about the Maori then except for the free production bonus from forests.
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