Mathematics can estimate the date of Adam and Eve

[ParadigmShifter]

No objects in the universe = nothing else either.

I don't see the existence of mathematics to be proof of a creator - especially since mathematics is inconsistent (and provably so).

Mathematics can prove "This statement has no proof" is true which is a paradox. If it was created by some kind of super being surely he would have made it free from paradox?

What's above and below the balloon?

Nothing if you treat it as a 2-dimensional manifold. If you inflate the balloon, the centre of enlargement is outside the space the manifold occupies as well.

Space seems to behave like an inflating balloon (but with a 3-dimensional "surface" embedded in 4-space).

 

[Kruelgor]

I don't see the existence of mathematics to be proof of a creator

How can you count something if there is nothing to count?

Nothing.

Isn't the empty space of the universe that which we call nothing, and it is that which we refer to when we say the universe is infinite.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That looks like circular logic to me.

 

[Arakhor]

That doesn't prove anything, Kruelgor. You haven't answered my genetics question either.

 

[holy king]

Anthropologists Trace Human Origins Back To One Large Goat

http://www.theonion.com/articles/anthropologists-trace-human-origins-back-to-one-la,19191/

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Isn't the empty space of the universe that which we call nothing, and it is that which we refer to when we say the universe is infinite.

We don't know the topology of the universe. I don't think we even know whether it has positive or negative (or zero) curvature. Some cosmologists here will know more about this than me.

 

[Kruelgor]

That looks like circular logic to me.

The human mind is not capable of comprehending the universe, just as it isn't capable of comperehending a creator that is as infinite as the universe.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If you go by the assumption that every person has 2 parents, 4 grand parents, 8 great grandparents etc, etc. and go back in time like that, by the year 1300 (or something like that) you have more ancestors than all the humans who've ever walked the Earth.

Take 20 years for an average generation, in 100 years that's 2^5, in 700 years that's 2^35, which is around 35 billion.

Which also means that you are related to every person who existed in 1300.


Kruelgor, do you really expect them to come up with anything else? It's rather easy to tweak the variables of a mathematical formula to get the answer you are looking for. Not for a minute am I convinced they didn't set out to get to the 6,000 years.

 

[Kruelgor]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/anthropologists-trace-human-origins-back-to-one-la,19191/

Let's take this for example. Even if true, it doesn't dispel the fact that something had to create/design it.

 

[holy king]

the idea that matter can only exist if someone consciously creates it is pretty anthropocentric.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

The human mind isn't capable of understanding the universe? How do you know? Isn't Einstein's General Theory of Relativity a pretty good model for how the universe behaves on a macro level?

 

[Kruelgor]

the idea that matter can only exist if someone consciously creates it is pretty anthropocentric.

Not only the matter itself, but the rules which governs each unique form of matter. Rules? Govern? Cannot have rules without a rule writer.

 

[holy king]

whatever, that too.

 

[Kruelgor]

The ONLY reason you do not believe in a creator, despite the millions of reasons right in front of your face in the typical daily life, is because the creator has chosen to conceal itself from you.

 

[Arakhor]

Spontaneous human combustion = God did it?

 

[Kruelgor]

By the way, if there is an afterlife then the creator would HAVE to keep it a secret, or otherwise too many people would be committing suicide to get to the afterlife.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's where it gets mind boggling. Just as mind boggling as fathoming the universe that never ends, but goes on for infinity. Infinity? The two are related if not one in the same. The creator and the universe.

That's not an answer to: Who designed the creator?

In order to create us, he must have been even more complex than we are. But if we are too complex to have come into existence through natural, deterministic processes, then surely it must have been even more impossible for him to arise.

That is avoiding an uncomfortable problem with your reasoning.

And you like to point out the word "theory", which shows me you do not know what a scientific theory actually is. First thing you have to do is find that out.

Second, you like to stress the word theory as if it's just musings, but then all you offer yourself to back up the idea of a creator is musings. No evidence, nothing. Just: can't have happened without one.

Well sir, that is what we call an assumption. And on without support except for: I can't imagine natural random processes so I'll introduce an element which has never been observed, but at least makes sense to me.

That is poor reasoning.

By the way, if there is an afterlife then the creator would HAVE to keep it a secret, or otherwise too many people would be committing suicide to get to the afterlife.

So, the Bible was a mistake?

Cripes.

The ONLY reason you do not believe in a creator, despite the millions of reasons right in front of your face in the typical daily life

Name one. Name one reason to believe in a creator amongst those millions of reasons.

 

[Kruelgor]

That's not an answer to: Who designed the creator?

Birth, life, and death is something that is unique to our world, but not necessarily something that may apply to the universe which is infiite. It's possible the creator is infinity.

So, the Bible was a mistake?.

I don't believe in the bible, but I do believe in a creator or creators.

Name one. Name one reason to believe in a creator amongst those millions of reasons.

All of the objects that exist.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

You haven't proven the universe is infinite.

Also, there are (probably) uncountably many different types of infinity (there are certainly a countably infinite number of them) - which one do you mean?

 

[Kruelgor]

You haven't proven the universe is infinite.

If the universe is not infinite, then what is the alternative?