MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster A

Well, nothing from Smackster for 36 hours since the game moved to him. I guess we'd better move on while he recovers from his Bankok experience.

Karasu, if you are available, you are UP.

Karasu UP
Sir Bugsy On Deck
AlanH
Smackster
 
Keep an eye on those galleys off the northern coast. I think they are going to land some settlers in our SW.

Chosogabe has a one-tile city that is a bit of a cultural nightmare. If we can get that in any peace treaty it would be very good. Same with Shimazu's one-tile city. That way we won't have to wait until Marines to capture them.
 
As the last incumbent of the hot seat, my 2¢:

1. We have just learnt Military Tradition, and there are still about 10 Samurai that could be upgraded. Think twice before you do it though.

- They have 4 defence points right now and that will reduce to 3 after upgrade. They might make useful defenders for cannon stacks or to supplement Cavalry attacks.

- There are some elites that I haven;t upgraded in case we want to use them against lower level defenders to generate leaders. I had lots of elite battles during my turns and no leaders, so we are due one soon.

- Putting the above two points together, maybe we keep the elite Samurai around and upgrade all the rest?

2. We have lots of temples in build. I replaced a few with alternatives, and left those that will extend our cultural borders to complete. You may want to review these build orders. Chosogabe (Yellow) is putting a lot of Cultural pressure on cities near to their borders. I already had one city flip (Aki?). So temples to increase our culture (and happiness) are probably a good thing.

3. We don't know how far behind we are in techs. I think Han must have Magnetism because he is sailing around freely, and he may have more. Baekje is behind, but the others are all ahead at least by Education. I don't think there's a Great Library slingshot available, as it's in Seoul, and we can't get there without Magnetism, which needs Education ... :rolleyes:

4. We can't trade very freely because we have no rep left, and we are at war with most civs.

5. Han are going to be the big threat now, and we need to watch our backs in the West, both from them and from the enemy Junks that are sneaking down the west coast. There are a lot of barbs hanging around the western end of our continent as well, and they could become a problem if allowed to settle as the AI approach the end of the Medieval era. I kept some troops on watch to illuminate that region and prevent settlements

6. I just settled the small island on our west coast and there's a junk in the nearest mainland town. If you ferry a couple of workers over there you can occupy the two vacant tiles and that'll stop any invasion before Marines. You could even bring the existing samurai guard back for upgrade to Cavalry and leave the island city unoccupied.

7. We obvioulsy need to wipe out the Mori asap. We have been reasonably successful at making peace for techs then restarting the war again without waiting - we have no rep left to lose.

8. Remember we are going for Conquest. We already have a good score relative to the other teams, but we need the earliest Conquest date to clinch victory. No empire building is needed other than that which supports the war efforts, and we need to ensure that we take all one tile enemy islands during peace negotiations to avoid having to wait until Marines to capture them.
 
I'm back so can take the next one. I didn't get time to play on this trip as I usually would, I didn't account for the fact that when in Bangkok one does not sit in room and play Civ.
 
Alan,
If you want to put smackster next, I won't be offended.

@ smackster, you're right. Bangkok is not a city to sit in your room. So many things to see and do. There is so many culture points in that city, that they may have flipped you. :D

Bugs
 
Welcome back, Smackster. I have never been to Bankok, but I did think you sounded a bit optimistic when you claimed you'd be able to find time for Civ. It's not Reading, is it!

OK, as long as you are OK with it Bugs, Karasu and Smackster have swapped places. Since this is Karasu's first stint after his Vacation, it just means he's slotted back in before Smackster, and gets to clean up after me.

Karasu UP
Smackster On Deck
Sir Bugsy
AlanH
 
Pre-turn
Tosashimizu is one, and Nagasaki the other one-tile city.
We are still far from the domination limit.
Switched Fuji and Iida to Worker. Rushed Temple in Utsunoiya.


IT - Mori (I think) Samurai attacks Oda Cavalry on mountain. Cavalry goes Elite.


Turn 1 - 760 AD
Fuji: worker - settler (can be changed to military unit and rushed later on, or used to settler our southernmost lands, or whatever)
Shimoda: Aqueduct - Cavalry
Ise: Cavalry - cavalry
Suzuka: cavalry - cavalry
Owase: Settler - worker
Chizu: harbour - junk
Utsunoiya: Temple - Musketman

Hurried Temple in Adachi-Ku, Oyama, Hino, Mito, Edo, Yokosuka
Switched Fujisawa from Temple to Settler, Sagamihara from Harbour to Temple.

Moving troops towards Aki and Osaka.


IT - Ops! Cavalry ambushed and killed by Samurai near


Turn 2 - 770 AD
Edo: Temple - Cavalry
Azuchi: Cavalry - cavalry
Sagamihara: Temple - Musketman
Adachi-ku: temple - musketman
Yaizu: Junk - temple
Mito: Temple - worker
Hino: Temple - Musketman
Yokosuka: temple - Settler
Gengisgawa: Junk - Settler
Oyama: temple - Flagged Footman

Captured Aki with no losses and one promotion to Elite (cavalry). Temple.

Hurried Temples in Kashihara, New Ogaki, Kobe

Moving troops towards Aki (with the idea of landing a razing and pillaging group in yellow lands) and Osaka.


IT - Mori sue for peace. They won't give us anything, though...
A Samurai impales himself on our units.


Turn 3 - 780 AD
Kobe, Tanabe: Temple - settler
Kashihara: temple - musketman (can be changed to anything)
New Ogaki: temple - courthouse
Uwajima: worker - temple
Ichinomiya: cavalry - musketman
Rushed temple in Otsu, Wakayama
Rushed Courhouse in Koromo and Okazaki
Rushed Aqueduct in Kofu

Bombard Osaka.
4\4 Cavalry vs 3\4 Samurai wins, 2hp left, promoted to Elite
5\5 Samurai vs 2\3 Musket wins unscathed
4\4 Cavalry vs 2\4 Musket wins, 1 hp lost, promoted to Elite
Osaka taken with a Settler. Starts Temple.

There are four resisters in Osaka. I think that Nara and maybe Tsuyama could be conquered. The other cities will be better razed and replaced using our own Settlers.

Make peace with Chosogabe for Typography. They won't give us anything else, but having no rep to defend...

Elite Cavalry kills wandering Samurai. Nothing.


IT - Spotted Mori Cavalry...
Gray units land near Edo. We have forces to deal with them.
I get some riots. Have I moved too many units? :confused:
Xinjian of the Han completes Copernicus.


Turn 4 - 790 AD
Kofu: aqueduct - Courthouse
Koromo: courthouse - cavalry

Wakayama: temple - courthouse
Otsu: temple - courthouse

5\5 Samurai vs 4\4 Cavalry wins, 2hp left.
4\4 Cavalry vs 4\4 Samurai wins, 1hp left
5\5 Kensai vs 3\3 Kensai wins without a scratch (but without giving us a leader...)

Hurried temple in Aki and Nagahama
Resistance in Osaka ended. City on diet.


IT - Two orange cavalries attack two Oda samurais. One win and one loss.


Turn 5 - 800 AD
Yokkaichi: junk - settler
Ogaki: cavalry - cavalry
Kawasaki: junk - temple
Nagahama: temple - settler
Kasugai and komaki: cavalry - cavalry
Aki: temple - settler
Himeji: junk - temple
Bizen: junk - worker
Ako: temple - courthouse
Switched Chizu and Handa to temple

Founded Suzuka: Cannon

Hurried Aqueduct in Alanville


IT - Orange cavalry gets himself impaled at the doors of Osaka.


Turn 6 - 810 AD
Hamamatsu, Handa, Yokkachi, Moriyama-ku: Cavalry - cavalry
Alanville: Aqueduct - Courthouse
Sakai: junk - temple
Karasu (who? me? :crazyeye: ): cavalry - cavalry
Fujisawa: settler - settler

Hurried temple in Ohara, Tateyama, Osaka.

Moved units from Osaka to the gates of Nara.


IT - Mori cavalries try to outflank our stack heading to lightly-defended Osaka. Nice.
The grey seem to have fallen in love with a landing spot between Edo and Yokohama.


Turn 7 - 820
Osaka: temple - settler
Tateyama: temple - worker
Ohara: temple - settler

A veteran cavalry of ours manages to get himself killed as a result of attacking a Mori cavalry. Wasted shields on his training, I guess...
A second cavalry knows what he is expected to do and does it.

After a particularly unsuccesful bombarding run, the attack on Nara begins:
4\4 cavalry vs 4\5 musket wins, no hp lost
5\5 cavalry vs 3\3 flagged footman is killed, ff redlined (but promoted)
5\5 samurai kills the f...stupid footman loosing 2hp and not giving us a GL,
but conquers Nara and a couple of workers.

5 resisters in Nara. I suggest that we start razing and rebuilding from now on.

veteran cavalry dies while attacking a Mori cavalry
elite cavalry finishes Mori's super-cavalry (they must be using doped saltpeter...)

Hurried temple in Kyoto and Gifu


IT - Oh,no. Shimazu lands next to New Yokkachi this time. Nice move.
Mori land a Settler on our lands.


Turn 8 - 830 AD
Kyoto, Gifu: temple - musketman
Nagoya, Kumano: cavalry - cavalry
AlanHwick: Junk - settler

HinoVictor kills the Mori escort and captures 1 settler = 2 workers. A settler of ours is going there too.


IT - A Mori cavalry is killed at the gates of Nara
Our veteran Samurai in New-Yokkhowever-it-was-called repels two attacks and becomes Elite.


Turn 9 - 840 AD
Shimoda, Suzuka: cavalry - cavalry
Hitachi: Settler - settler (I was short of ideas here)

Hurried Temple in Sanda, Chizu and Nara

Without cannon support, the attack on Takahashi begins
4\4 cavalry vs 4\4 Musket wins, looses 1hp, promoted to Elite
4\4 cavalry vs 4\4 FF dies, ff redlined
5\5 Samurai vs 1\4 FF wins, captures worker, razes the city

In a spur of optimism, a little assault is launched on Tsuyama.
5\5 cavalry vs 3\3 flagged bastard wins, this time, unscathed.
4\4 cavalry vs 3\3 flagged faggot wins, loosing 2 hp and conquering the city.

Tsuyama has three resisters, I'll keep it.
Hurried Settler in Osaka.


IT - Mori cavalry this time manages to kill an Oda Samurai.

Turn 10 - 850 AD
Azuchi: cavalry - cavalry
Osaka: settler - musketman
Ise: musketman - cavalry
Smackster: cavalry - worker
Sanda: temple - harbour
Chizu: temple - junk (or whatever)
New Yokkachi: worker - flagged footman

Move some units, no fights.



Well, I tried to leave it as tidy as possible, but it must show that I have been some time away from Civ... just don't tell me and leave me with the illusion...
Some final notes.
- We are one-two turns away from cutting Mori's saltpeter source. Then...
- I have prepared three junks for a preliminary incursion on Chosogabe lands. There are only two muskets, though.
The Chosogabe really have high culture. I think we should simply raze them altogether. Cities conquered over there would be of little use anyway.
- I tried to let the south develop and to improve our cores (no, I didn't micromanage anything). The core cities are mainly building cavalries, while I think it would be more efficient to rush defensive units close to our borders.
- Noone wants to give us Education yet, but I believe Mori is close.
- Sorry, no pics. I am connecting from home and it's just too slow.

I love this game...

Oda's Iron Fist
 
Well done Karasu. I'll download the save and see what it all looks like, but you seem to have moved our front line a long way forward.

I don't think we need worry about hitting domination. There's lots of unclaimed space in our own island group, and once it's down to us vs. the Han, on the other continent, we won't need to bother about keeping cities, we can just raze everything we capture.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, Smackster, it tolls for thee ...

Roster

Karasu
Smackster UP
Sir Bugsy On Deck
AlanH
 
850AD

Took a look around, did some micro tweaking. Got 18 GPT from Choso for luxuries, we don't care that we will attack them again soon. Moved a Cavalry nearer the front.

IBT Mori Cavalry arrives on hill next to Tsuyama, Shimazu drop Samurai near New Yokachi, will have to declare peace to stop them taking it.

T1 860AD
Peace with Shimazu for 51 Gold and 2 GPT.

Cavalry kills Mori Cavalry near Yukama
Samurai near Saltpeter near Kure find Musket, kill Musket capture workers. Workers show us what is in Kure which is simplay a flagged Samurai. The second Cavalry then captures Kure
A Samurai is seen outside Kure and we take a risk with our 3/5 Cavalry to kill him.

Send troops into Choso, they have junks around but chose to ignore them, a little risky.

IBT Choso don't like our movements so we are at war. They have four Cavlary to counter and the two muskets and one Cavalry die. Mori Cavalry counter attack at Kure kills one of our Cavalry. Find ourselves back at war with Shimazu and lose city, they burn it to ground, good luck to them.

T2 870 AD
Counter attack Choso, and kill one Cavarly, attack on their city is rebuffed with retreat for our Cavlary. 6 more Cavalry arrive to help, although I'm concerned about more of their counter attacks.

Kill Mori Cavalry at Koru with our Cavalry.

Only movement mistakes stop our attack on Fukuyama

IBT Choso counters are too strong killing half our Cavalry. We will retreat this turn. Mori fall for the old worker trick and capture a worker with their Cavalry, a second dies to our Samurai.

T3 880AD

Fujirama is captured with first attack. Continue onto Hiroshima, don't quite have enough left to take it.

Part 2
See if I can do better this time. I'm not sure what I could have done with Choso, looked like we had enough to attack them but obviously not. Next time I'll land on the mountain in the middle of their territory for the extra defence. Their Cavalry can get to the front whereever we land.

I think I made a mistake as I had to reload after mouse problems, and I think I forgot to do everything on that turn, which was the peace deal with Shimu, I thought they had attacked us, but I see now that we can get a peace deal. I give them that and throw in 600 Gold for Education.

Now everywhere has war weariness, clicking on the unhappy people tells me nothing, I assume this must have been peace with Shimazu and we had reverse war weariness or something. I don't really understand this.

IBT Choso Cavalry arrive near Nagahama

T4 890AD

Kill first Choso Cavlary, realise we need to take Hiroshima to get the second.
Cavalry kills Samurai in Hiroshima
Cavalry kills Flagged footman in Hiroshima which is taken

Cavalry kills second Cavalry near Nagahama, captures settler

Kui is now in range, and is taken for the loss of one Cavalry
Our last Cavalry in range can now get to Okayama and with only one defender that is also taken.

We protect our front line with a row of captured workers, please come and get them Mori my friend.

Rush stacks more Junks as Mori only has two cities left on the mainland, all attacks from now are seaborn.

T5 900AD
Culture making it hard to attack any more cities, junks are coming round, troops are building

IBT Choso send some more troops to us

T6 910AD
Two Cavalry die attacking Musket in Yamaguchi, the third kills him then Samurai retreats against FS. Nothing left in range, hills and culture make it hard to get there.

Cavalry kills Choso Oda

T7 920AD

Yamagachi and Matsue are both captured for the loss of a couple of Cavalry and the continent is ours, Great Lighthouse captured too. There are a couple of Mori cities the other side of Shimazu, we'll look for peace with Mori and launch everything against Choso.

Mori give us peace for Astronomy.

This boost makes our boats move like crazy, gets them into sea squares and utilises the fast sea movements.

T8 930AD

Start Kublai junk upgrades, so we should be able to lauch one big attack on Choso, as they have extra space.

T9 940AD

Just building troops, will not attack next turn, that is left to the next person. We can now afford Navigation for 740 Gold, not that we really need it yet. When we need to traverse the ocean obviously we do.

T10 950AD

The Armada is in Nagahama, they will be ready to move now, and the force should be big enough. I included two workers as the Choso Cavalry will attack them, just dump them in the open.

We can trade for Navigation.

The cities need to be MM'd sorry can't do it too late.

.sav on the next post.

Score 2547
 
If you let me have the score from the end of Karasus turn then I'll update the score chart.

Thanks.
 
Hi MB. Karasu posted the score:

Originally posted by Karasu
Ops. I forgot the score: 2204 Euros, ehm... no... points
Click to expand...

[EDIT] That's at 850 AD.
 
Great news from the front lines, Smackster :thumbsup:. It sounds like we are doing really well. It's going to be interesting to see where we are in the tech race when we finally take on the Han.

Roster:

Karasu
Smackster
Sir Bugsy UP
AlanH On Deck

Firaxis Score: 2547 at 950 AD
 
I would have been happier but for the disaster at Choso I think I lost 5 Cavalry and 2 Muskets before retreating. We now have a big enough force that can get there together. Need to decide if you move them to the mountain in the middle to sustain the Cavalry attacks better.

Oh I did not say, there are two Shimazu Samurai in the middle of our territory, and one Mori Cavalry. I'm sure if you ask them to leave its war. I have the Samurai surrounded and the Cavlary I put a couple of Cavlary to watch them.

Also I don't suppose it will be long before the GL is obsolete, don't remember if we need to discover Mag or if just anybody

Smackster
 
I've got it. Sounds like it is time for D-Day #2. I'll start playing during lunch. I should have it complete by tonight say 8 PM-ish Pacific Time. That would be too late for Alan to pick it up tonight, but he'll be able to play on Saturday.

Here's something for the team to consider: When we start the invasion of Korea, I've been thinking that it will be shorter to sail west from our Takeda-Tokugawa lands. It will be closer to our core, and thus a shorter reinforcement route. With Shimazu and Chosogabe still on the table I realize we still have some work to do, but we should start thinking about how we're going to execute the Han invasion.

Bugsy
 
I've had a look at the 950 AD save.

So, we own our home continent now. Great, we need to keep it that way!

That's a nice stack ready to attack Chosogabe. Let's make it stick this time. I agree we should land on the central mountain that we can rech from teh sea. We have Samurai at defence 4 in the stack, so with effective defence = 8, that gives us a secure base from which the cavalry can reach two cities immediately after landing. After we inflict some damage, we need to grab that one tile island as soon as possible in a phony peace deal with those guys.

I think the Lighthouse is only obsolete after we get Magnetism ourselves. We need to time our trading round for Magnetism, as I seem to recall you actually lose movement points until you can upgrade the "Caravels' to "Galleons". So we don't want to do it in the middle of a naval reinforcement exercise.

Those Shimazu Samurai have managed to get a long way inland! I couldn't spot them until I re-read your post and saw that you had them (almost) surrounded.

We've been careless letting Shimazu get to New Yokkacha and raze it. I suggested at the end of my turn that we should simply occupy the spare tiles on that island with workers, and it would then have been secure until Marines. I suggest we do it again, as that island could be strategically important when we start our assault on the Han.

@Sir Bugsy: You are right about the need to start discussing how we take out the other continent. Shimazu and the Mori leftovers will be a progression from our planned conquest of Chosogabe, at the end of which all our troops and naval capability will be in the north east and a long way from your suggested intercontinental invasion site.

It seems to me we could make a virtue out of necessity, and attack on two fronts. We can move our current force, plus any reinforcements we can spare, to that island off the southern tip of the Shimazu territory when they finish their business in the north east. We can use that as a jumping off point for an assault on Baekje to establish a bridgehead on the north of the continent and to conquer the main Baekje cities. Meanwhile we can prepare a new second assault force on our west coast ready to attack the Han east coast. If we time it right we can make a simultaneous two pronged attack on the Han from their north and east. This will split the Han's counterattack, and also help to reduce the problems of that solid mountain range down the continental spine.

What do you military experts think?
 
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