MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster A

[AlanH]

Thanks to MB's request for a screenshot, it occurs to me that we could peacefully settle a city back where our previous beachhead was, where we can build up an advance force. The Han's cultural boundaries are not so strong there as the Baekje's were previously, maybe leaving enough room for a reasonable safe city.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Great minds think alike.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
If you stand on you head or use the flip vertically function of Paint, you can kind of see Korea and Japan, with the Sea of Japan in between.

Edit: I know. Too much Where's cracker to back me up on this one?

I know, I know! You west coast guys know all about Pacific geography. But in this game Korea was there, but is no more.

Two minds with one cross-posted thought on the spare real estate available on the other continent

 

[smackster]

T4 1470AD

Hire lots of taxmen and get our GPT to +10 from -17

IBT

T5 1475AD

Shimoda Hospital->Artillery
ISE Factory ->University
Koroma Factory->Library

We have enough Hospitals for Battlefield Medicine, which I'll build somewhere

T6 1500AD

Nagoya University->Bank
Handa Factory->Market Place
Yokachi Library->University
Komachi Factory->Aquaduct
Smackster Factory->Bank

T7 1485AD

Suzuka Market Place->Bank
Karasu Infantry->Market Place

T8 1490AD

Koroma Library->Bank
Kumano Bank->Stock Exchange

T9 1495AD

Hammatsu Army->Army
Azuchi University->Bank
Kofu Bank->Stock Exchange
Ogaki Factory->Bank
Handa Market Place->Bank
Alanwick Library->Marketplace

We can get steel next turn Han still don't have it. Not much cash left, I think every available citizen is now a tax payer, without starving any cities.

T10 1500AD

Nagoya Bank->Stock Exchange
OKazki Factory->Bank
Ise Uni->Bank
Yokkachi Uni->Bank
Kasugai Factory->Bank
Ichinima Factory->Bank
Ina Factory->Bank

We discover Steel, Combustion in 8 (maybe we can squeeze it to 7)

Han has discovered Enlightenment, he will offer us 27GPT for it, not likely sonny.

Score 5416

 

[smackster]

.zip

 

[smackster]

Tiles to Dom 164

 

[Sir Bugsy]

While I have the zip, I will probably be spending most of this evening studying the game and figuring out where we should go. It sounds like a set of ten peaceful builder turns to set up for the FINAL CONFLICT 8 turns of combustion, then Mass Prod then Motor Trans This might take a while.

 

[AlanH]

Karasu
Smackster Counting the pennies
Sir Bugsy UP
AlanH On deck

Firaxis score at 1500 AD = 5416

Thanks Smackster.

We are weak compared with the Han right now, not surprisingly, so we need to watch out for a sneak attack. They seem to be taking an unhealthy interest in the Shimazu territories ... Bugs may not be given the option of a peaceful set of turns.

There's a small Han stack near Hitoyoshi, on the northern island, with no good reason to be there. Our defences there consist of one cavalry and one musket. I recommend we at least upgrade the musket, and consider shipping a few more units across there. The harbour comes in next turn and then he can be an infantryman, but we can upgrade him to a rifle for now. They also now have two cities on the main island as well as the one on the eastern island. Here's a screenie of the Shimazu territories for the lurkers.

The Han are rapidly filling in the cultural boundary spaces on their mainland, so I don't think there's an opportunity for us to grab a peaceful foothold. Kunsan has already expanded.

More later ...

 

[Karasu]

I believe we won't be 'weaker' any more once we upgrade some muskets to infantry.

If we keep on researching techs at 7-8 turns each, we are only going to be able to start building tanks in 20 turns. Let's say 10-15 more turns to build and ship reasonable number of tanks to Korea. That's some time...

Wouldn't it be nice to use it to entertain the Han somewhat?
I liked Alan's idea of suicide Explorer strikes.
What about expanding it... building, say, fifty explorers, send them all in Han territory and pillage anything they set foot upon.
If we start preparing the package now, we could have our ships back by the time the first tanks are ready for the transport...

Yes, I know, my mind is set on pillaging and won't see anything else right now...

 

[smackster]

We can get pretty close to 4 turn research but we lose too much money. With the amount of factories we have built now we are rapidly building our basic infrastructure so maybe this will get better. Most of our core cities can build Banks / Stock Exchange and Uni's in 3, 4 or 5 turns.

I like the pillaging idea, I think Alan is right that they will attack us some time soon. And we might as well cause them some problems while that is happening.

Smackster

 

[AlanH]

It's an interesting idea. I'm all in favour of pillaging to curtail their ability to build any effective counter attack once we start on them. Here are my thoughts:

The only problem I can see with doing it during our remaining research period is that if we declare war and put our troops on Han territory we would probably have to flip to Monarchy pretty soon to handle war weariness, and that would slow down our research. Of course, if the Han decide to pre-empt then we should go for it as soon as possible.

Explorers are only 20 shields each, and they can move 5 tiles and pillage in one turn, so they have almost the same range as a bomber or kamikaze and a 100% success rate. Ideally they need infantry army cover to get within range of their pillage objective, but I think they represent pretty good value for their small shield cost. If we get back into a war with the Han they will revert to Communism pretty quickly, and their rebuild rate after pillaging will be slow. The AI never seems to stack more than a couple of workers on any single task.

Rubber is the most damaging resource to deny them, as it puts their land unit technology back to cavalry and rifles. They only have three rubber plantations, one on their western island, the other two dispersed inland on their mainland. We could hit them all in a couple of turns using explorers.

Oil denial will kill their sea and air capability. The Han have oil in five locations. Three are in the extreme southern tundra, all on the coast, and two in the small northern deserts. The southern ones are the only ones they have hooked up currently. One of the southern oil fields is under Shantung, so we would have to pillage all round Shantung or capture it to deprive them of all their oil.

Isolating Beijing is the quickest way to disrupt their lux trade as well as hitting their production and research capacity.

I'll try and put together a suggested Operation Stone Age map for discussion.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by smackster
We can get pretty close to 4 turn research but we lose too much money. With the amount of factories we have built now we are rapidly building our basic infrastructure so maybe this will get better. Most of our core cities can build Banks / Stock Exchange and Uni's in 3, 4 or 5 turns.

I like the pillaging idea, I think Alan is right that they will attack us some time soon. And we might as well cause them some problems while that is happening.

Smackster

I realise we are short of cash, but I still think Universities should take first priority. If we get our research rate high enough we may not need to max out the science slider to do 4 turn research, and then we'll start to have some surplus for the treasury. That's when banks and stock exchanges will help.

 

[AlanH]

As soon as we have Motorised Transport, if not before, we'll be at war with the Han. Once we then have Flight I think we should turn research down to 10% for amphibious warfare until we determine whether Kamikaze are lethal. If they are we can turn it off altogether, as that will resolve the Nagasaki issue. If not then we'll have to turn it up again, but only to a level where we can build marines by the time we estimate we'll destroy the Han. When we are in that state our treasury should take off, even if we are back in Monarchy by then.

 

[smackster]

I was just building whatever was quickest, so if a city had neither bank or Uni then the bank was next. Because we had enough science for 4 turns and not enough cash GPT then I reasoned a bank does help us as it allows us to turn up science by giving us more gold. However I don't know which helps us more.

 

[Karasu]

"Operation Stone Age"
I'll give a look at the map too.

I would agree on building universities: we can sell them as soon as we discover MT (or get close to it)

I would also not bother protecting the Explorers. Once they are done with the pillaging, we have no use for them.
Let the Han chase them and kill them (on roadless tiles!) while our military units raze and burn...

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by smackster
I was just building whatever was quickest, so if a city had neither bank or Uni then the bank was next. Because we had enough science for 4 turns and not enough cash GPT then I reasoned a bank does help us as it allows us to turn up science by giving us more gold. However I don't know which helps us more.

We are at 4.6.0 currently, so a bank increases gold output by 50% of 40% = 20%, and a university increases beaker output by 50% of 60% = 30%. The cost difference is 20%. So a university gives 40% more net return on investment.

I just sorted F1 by beaker output and looked at the top research cities. I counted five that don't have universities and are not building one. Alanville, which was my suggested candidate for a university 20 turns ago when we had a leader who could have built it, is building Artillery, and we already have over 90 of them.

We also need to get hospitals in some key cities where we have spare improved tiles that could be churning out gold with more than pop 12. That is also higher priority than financial buildings, as the pop takes time to grow and so the sooner it starts the better. If we have surplus workers, join them to speed up pop growth where we have hospitals already. Join our own workers, as that reduces our unit support cost. Worker tasking should also be directed at those cities that can grow fast. A few grass tiles that I switched to mines during my stint, before we had Sanitation, should now be irrigated to increase pop growth rate. We want pop 20 cities, particularly in our southern core where the city density is lower.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by Karasu
I would also not bother protecting the Explorers. Once they are done with the pillaging, we have no use for them.
Let the Han chase them and kill them (on roadless tiles!) while our military units raze and burn...

That's why I described them as suicide bombers and compared them to Kamikazes.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by smackster
Because we had enough science for 4 turns and not enough cash GPT ...

If we have more than enough science for 4 turn research then we can turn down the science rate and get more into the treasury, either continuously or during the last turn or two. Gold should never go to waste. As a rule of thumb, if the science slider is higher than 50% then science buildings give better value than financial buildings. Hospitals are higher priority than either where we have spare tiles capable of supporting extra citizens in non-corrupt cities.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by Karasu
I would agree on building universities: we can sell them as soon as we discover MT (or get close to it)

Don't forget we shall probably need Flight as well before we switch off research.

Sorry about the snowstorm of posts, but if I reply to all of the points in one big post then I end up cross posting and the thread gets out of sync.

 

[Karasu]

What would one do to increase his postcount...