Medicine

[El_Machinae]

So, there's some debate, especially at 'important' levels of government as to what the 'point' of medicine is (and its associated research).

Does medical research have a goal? Can you think of an inclusive goal for this field?

 

[Perfection]

Uh people livin' longer, healther, happier lives maybe?

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Developing new medicines to maximize profit.

 

[Fifty]

Uh people livin' longer, healther, happier lives maybe?

That's rich, perf. Really, I thought someone so committed to being a skeptic would have more sense

Think about it. If people are healthy and happy, then doctors dont get paid. The truth is, western medicine and its butt-buddy the pharmaceutical industry have one goal in mind: to never offer you any tips for wellness and preventing illness, but rather just come up with imaginary diseases that can easily be cured through a proper raw vegan diet. I recommend you read Gary Trudeau's Natural Cures "they" dont want you to know about. Its an established fact that aids, cancer, crohn's disease, diabetes, the flu, measles, smallpox, etc., are all caused by poor diet and misinformation spread by the medical industry and drug companies. Out of those three things you list, only "longer" applies, because they want to keep you near-death at the end of life, proped up by $100,000/day in medical machinery and hospital crap that is just compounding the problems.

the level of indoctrination in you people amazes me. Honestly I'd say that the average doctor is the moral equivalent to the gestapo.

 

[Masquerouge]

That's rich, perf. Really, I thought someone so committed to being a skeptic would have more sense

Think about it. If people are healthy and happy, then doctors dont get paid. The truth is, western medicine and its butt-buddy the pharmaceutical industry have one goal in mind: to never offer you any tips for wellness and preventing illness, but rather just come up with imaginary diseases that can easily be cured through a proper raw vegan diet. I recommend you read Gary Trudeau's Natural Cures "they" dont want you to know about. Its an established fact that aids, cancer, crohn's disease, diabetes, the flu, measles, smallpox, etc., are all caused by poor diet and misinformation spread by the medical industry and drug companies. Out of those three things you list, only "longer" applies, because they want to keep you near-death at the end of life, proped up by $100,000/day in medical machinery and hospital crap that is just compounding the problems.

the level of indoctrination in you people amazes me. Honestly I'd say that the average doctor is the moral equivalent to the gestapo.

One of your personal best, Fifty

I too would gladly live like our ancestors, only natural, eating roots and stuff, using only natural cures and dying at 35 because of an infected wound. These guys KNEW medicine!

 

[Fifty]

One of your personal best, Fifty

I too would gladly live like our ancestors, only natural, eating roots and stuff, using only natural cures and dying at 35 because of an infected wound. These guys KNEW medicine!

You really don't understand the web of lies surrounding the medical industry, do you? Its very simple, really. Who studies the life-spans of our ancestors? anthropologists. Where do anthropologists do their research? From universities. What wing of the university is the most powerul? The MED SCHOOL (see med school prof salaries if you dont believe me ).

Its almost funny, using western medicine-industry-controlled anthropology to try and debunk the truth: that independant studies have confirmed that ancient peoples that were not killed by predatory beasts lived on average for 180yrs for males and 200yrs for females.

 

[Masquerouge]

You really don't understand the web of lies surrounding the medical industry, do you? Its very simple, really. Who studies the life-spans of our ancestors? anthropologists. Where do anthropologists do their research? From universities. What wing of the university is the most powerul? The MED SCHOOL (see med school prof salaries if you dont believe me ).

Oh yeah? Well first I'll let you know that my uncle is an anthropologist (he's got diabetes too) and he has a very nice salary so obviously you're talking BS . And then his wing at Uni was the right wing and it definitively WAS the most powerful since it was bigger and higher than the Med School wing (they even had to share lockers, losers).

Its almost funny, using western medicine-industry-controlled anthropology to try and debunk the truth: that independant studies have confirmed that ancient peoples that were not killed by predatory beasts lived on average for 180yrs for males and 200yrs for females.

You see plots and hidden truths everywhere mister tin-foil hat but be aware that medicine has done more than any other science to improve our lot, like for instance before all people were bent but now Quasimodo is a thing of the past, or now surgeons wash their hands before an operation saving millions of lives.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

@Fifty:
But i agree with you : (especially over here) nobody(doctors/medicall staff) EVER tells you anything about how you should prevent any disease.

 

[angeleyes]

[....] Does medical research have a goal? Can you think of an inclusive goal for this field?

Does any research have a goal? Does life have a goal?

 

[Brighteye]

To further understanding of human physiology and pathology with the aim of knowing the effects and possible causes of any illness.

A good question is what the aim of medicine is: is it to keep people healthy, or is it to keep them happy?
Medical schools here waste a significant amount of time teaching students to deal with patients' happiness, as part of their wellbeing. It sounds reasonable to some people (including whoever sets the syllabus), but is an utter joke.

A doctor is there to deal with physical problems. If you're unhappy, get a grip. Just because happy patients are more compliant does not make it part of a doctor's duty to make them happy. It just means that the patient is less likely to comply with his orders. If we allow that the doctor is supposed to interfere with the patient's probability of co-operating, we may as well ask every doctor to perform a lobotomy on every patient he sees.

 

[Babbler]

Does any research have a goal? Does life have a goal?

Yes, you want to expand your knowledge. As for life, it's either a goal you choose or have trusted upon you (which sadly is more often than not).

 

[EdwardTking]

I suspect that there are people in the medical professions who wonder what the point of government is. After all does passing laws make us happy/well?

 

[El_Machinae]

Uh people livin' longer, healther, happier lives maybe?

Which cohorts do you include in 'people'?
And all of your terms are relative terms: in relation to what are you comparing the progress of the medical research?

Does any research have a goal? Does life have a goal?

While many people's lives were not intentional (or specifically intentional), research is directed (intentionally) by people, and thus should have a goal ... no?

 

[Masquerouge]

But i agree with you : (especially over here) nobody(doctors/medicall staff) EVER tells you anything about how you should prevent any disease.

That's not very fair though, mostly because there is not much you can do to stop a microb entering your organism, besides living in a completely sterile environment (and good luck with that).

 

[Perfection]

Which cohorts do you include in 'people'?

White males.

Seriously, what's with the objection?

 

[StarWorms]

Think about it. If people are healthy and happy, then doctors dont get paid. The truth is, western medicine and its butt-buddy the pharmaceutical industry have one goal in mind: to never offer you any tips for wellness and preventing illness, but rather just come up with imaginary diseases that can easily be cured through a proper raw vegan diet.

Wrong. People are healthy and happy because we rely on the health service when we become ill. Many diseases can be cured. What do you think vaccines do? They PREVENT diseases to minimise the cost that the health service has to spend to cure them. It's financially beneficial for health services to develop preventative medicines.

I recommend you read Gary Trudeau's Natural Cures "they" dont want you to know about. Its an established fact that aids, cancer, crohn's disease, diabetes, the flu, measles, smallpox, etc., are all caused by poor diet and misinformation spread by the medical industry and drug companies.

They're also caused by a whole lot of things like age, sex, heredity. People do not catch AIDS from eating food, they catch it from having sex with someone who is infected.

Out of those three things you list, only "longer" applies, because they want to keep you near-death at the end of life, proped up by $100,000/day in medical machinery and hospital crap that is just compounding the problems.

Inventing statistics and exaggerating your point just makes it void. All 3 apply. People are healthier because of medicine. That's a fact. I expect people are also a lot happier because there's less disease, they're living longer and have more fulfilled lives.

the level of indoctrination in you people amazes me. Honestly I'd say that the average doctor is the moral equivalent to the gestapo.

Then you're a pretty sick person. You'd rather just let people die when they can easily be given something to make them live for several decades more? Have you ever been faced with someone close to you dying? Let's suppose they could be saved with a drug. You'd just leave them to die?

Another situation: You've been in a car crash and your leg has snapped. You could go to hospital to get it amputated. Would you rather: a) Leave it as it is and let the flesh rot away. b) Chop it off yourself with a saw from the garage. c) Go to a hospital and have it amputated with anaesthetic.

 

[Fifty]

Wrong. People are healthy and happy because we rely on the health service when we become ill.

Throwing expensive prescription drugs at a bunch of obese depressed people with ADHD (e.g. america today) does not exactly strike me as happy and healthy

The problem is that you have this western idea about what it means to be healthy because you've never been TRULY healthy, you've only been varying degrees of sick.

Many diseases can be cured.

Correct, through diet, not through drugs and hospitals.

What do you think vaccines do?

You honestly think vaccines do what the medical establishment tells you they do? seriously? I feel sorry for you bro.

They PREVENT diseases to minimise the cost that the health service has to spend to cure them. It's financially beneficial for health services to develop preventative medicines.

You obviously have no clue. If they PREVENT diseases then why do diseases still exist that have natural cures. I tell you, there isn't a single disease that isn't preventable and curable through diet. Name one that isn't.

They're also caused by a whole lot of things like age, sex, heredity. People do not catch AIDS from eating food, they catch it from having sex with someone who is infected.

Ahh, I see this one has grown up listening to medical industry rhetoric

"AIDS" is a psycho-socially constructed disease invented by medical companies to have customers for their drug cocktails. Its all psychosomatic. The truth is that "AIDS" is just a basic immune system problem that can easily be treated by eating raw pure honey once a day for ~3 weeks.

Inventing statistics and exaggerating your point just makes it void. All 3 apply. People are healthier because of medicine.

Sorry, but the facts just dont agree with your crazy fantasies.

That's a fact.

no, 2+2=4 is a fact, what you're doing is just being an unwitting posterboy for western medicine.

I expect people are also a lot happier because there's less disease, they're living longer and have more fulfilled lives.

The problem is people DONT live longer. See my previous reply to masquerouge for the reason why you cant trust what most anthropologists tell you.

Then you're a pretty sick person.

beacause I think free and eat healthy and dont listen to my nazi (aka my doctor)?

You'd rather just let people die when they can easily be given something to make them live for several decades more? Have you ever been faced with someone close to you dying? Let's suppose they could be saved with a drug. You'd just leave them to die?

You clearly dont understand. I'm all for long lives. The point is that long-lives are the result of diet, not fake Western Medicine that only makes us sicker.

Another situation: You've been in a car crash and your leg has snapped. You could go to hospital to get it amputated. Would you rather: a) Leave it as it is and let the flesh rot away. b) Chop it off yourself with a saw from the garage. c) Go to a hospital and have it amputated with anaesthetic.

ooh yes "anaesthetic" another horrid invention. Its simply a profit machine. The truth is that anaesthetic is easily attainable through timed breathing techniques and herbal relaxants, no fancy anaesthetic is needed. You really ought to read this pamphlet I have on the true history of anaesthetic. The truth is that upper-class white society needed a high-class job for those who weren't good enough to cut it in real indoctrination (er... medical) school. Hence the anaesthesiologist role was born.

wake up man

 

[Chandrasekhar]

You've clearly learned from some of the master debaters, Fifty. Your rhetorical technique in undeniable.

On topic: aside from the exploitation of the masses, I think the point of medicine is just to lessen human death and suffering, and to a lesser degree the death and suffering of whatever animals humans wish to protect.

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that the point is to grease the wheels of society by altering the natural biological course of life.

 

[Narz]

I love you Fifty.

As for the OP, I've say the "point" of medical research is to improve the quality of human life. That said, it doesn't always work that way.

Instead of trying to cure asthma for example we might look to improving air quality (which is directly inversely proportional to asthma rates) instead of concoting a more advanced inhaler.

Much (not all), of modern medicine consists of selling people ways to mask their symptoms rather than take responsibility for their health.

Here's a couple videos of Fifty (aka : John Rose) talking about the power of juicefeasting (fasting) to cure illness.

That said, modern medicine is great in certain situations for certain things, for example when I busted both my arms last year falling off my bike I went to the hospital and had 'em looked at, I also took some some pain killers (first time in four years). Modern medicine is good for emergencies, it is also good to get your teeth checked once in awhile.

 

[WS78]

Interesting dilemma that plagues doctors around the world.
Do I fix the problem of a patient, or does the patient need to fix his own lifestyle?
Doctors just do what they are trained to do, who are they to tell others how to live?