Mental health thread

[Narz]

@ Hygro. It's one thing to get a battery of medical tests done & determine you have imbalances. I got some done in 2001 or 2002 (forgot which) and found out I have a number of hormones outside the normal range, specifically my cortisol (a stress hormone) and my DHEA level was very low (about what a 60 year old might have, not a 22 year old), IIRC my serotonin was also low & my testosterone was slightly below normal.

However when a psychiatrist who does no tests tells you you have "a" chemical imbalance (but which one :runaway: ) it's a little sketchy. Do they still use this term often? Frankly, I haven't been in close contact with the industry in over 10 years.

The brain is a tricky beast, it's very hard to determine causality & frankly, I wish those giving me "care" would have been a little more careful & kept their Hippocratic oath (first do no harm, etc.) more clearly in mind.

 

[Bootstoots]

However when a psychiatrist who does no tests tells you you have "a" chemical imbalance (but which one :runaway: ) it's a little sketchy. Do they still use this term often? Frankly, I haven't been in close contact with the industry in over 10 years.

I think "chemical imbalance" has never had any real meaning: obviously some sort of chemical process is behind every type of brain activity, but nobody knows what's really going on in depression. It's mostly used in advertisements, with qualifying statements (e.g. "although the true cause of depression is unknown, it may be caused by a chemical imbalance..."). Obviously the pharmaceutical companies are trying to get people to ignore those qualifiers.

Even though I recognize that pharmaceutical companies are primarily out to maximize their profit, I think that antidepressant drugs really do help some people, some of the time. I suspect that what we call "depression" is actually a constellation of conditions, some of which do respond to increased levels of serotonin or other neurotransmitters. Others (like yours, based on what you've said) respond better to lifestyle changes. Many may respond to multiple treatments, and lifestyle changes and/or some form of behavioral therapy are probably better on a cost-benefit basis than drugs.

 

[Narz]

Others (like yours, based on what you've said) respond better to lifestyle changes.

I wouldn't say my mental condition didn't respond to drugs. In fact I found Prozac for instance, did affect my depression. However, it made me feel very strange. I didn't make my happy really but it definitely did take the edge off my depression. The problem is it made me feel... for lack of a better word, sociopathic. I lost my natural sensitivity (perhaps over-sensitivity which surely contributed to my susceptibility to depression in the unfriendly world of an all boys boarding school & later public school & a slew of sketchy alternative schools) and become more emotionally cool in my disposition. I simply no longer cared about many of the things I used to, I no longer avoided fights in school, I remember riding all over the road on my bike, swerving to & fro and even taking a spill ripping up my side a bit & caring only about the pain (not enough feeling stupid or anything). I found this drug & other SSRI's I took (Zoloft, can't recall the 3rd off hand) to be powerful stuff & I wasn't surprised when I later read about a large percentage of school-shooters being on similar drugs. I found it emboldening to be sure, however I didn't entirely like feeling that way, I felt like I'd lost an important part of myself (albeit one that certainly made me more susceptible to depression). I'd love to say I quit it when I noticed the change in personality but I only later decided enough was enough when I was sitting at home watching TV and (IIRC) Kelly Bundy was talking about sex & I realized I hadn't had an erection in at least two days (kind of a big deal for a 14-year old).

 

[Bootstoots]

I wouldn't say my mental condition didn't respond to drugs. In fact I found Prozac for instance, did affect my depression. However, it made me feel very strange. I didn't make my happy really but it definitely did take the edge off my depression. The problem is it made me feel... for lack of a better word, sociopathic. I lost my natural sensitivity (perhaps over-sensitivity which surely contributed to my susceptibility to depression in the unfriendly world of an all boys boarding school & later public school & a slew of sketchy alternative schools) and become more emotionally cool in my disposition. I simply no longer cared about many of the things I used to, I no longer avoided fights in school, I remember riding all over the road on my bike, swerving to & fro and even taking a spill ripping up my side a bit & caring only about the pain (not enough feeling stupid or anything). I found this drug & other SSRI's I took (Zoloft, can't recall the 3rd off hand) to be powerful stuff & I wasn't surprised when I later read about a large percentage of school-shooters being on similar drugs. I found it emboldening to be sure, however I didn't entirely like feeling that way, I felt like I'd lost an important part of myself (albeit one that certainly made me more susceptible to depression). I'd love to say I quit it when I noticed the change in personality but I only later decided enough was enough when I was sitting at home watching TV and (IIRC) Kelly Bundy was talking about sex & I realized I hadn't had an erection in at least two days (kind of a big deal for a 14-year old).

From what I've heard, feeling like a zombie is a really common reaction to SSRIs. Not everyone, or even the majority, of stories I've heard have reported that they felt unemotional, but there still are a lot of people who have experienced that. The same sort of thing is what's causing me to put off taking such drugs - even though they've helped the people in my family that have tried them, I don't want to lose any of my personality along with the depression.

And losing sex drive is almost universal, of course. I for one don't know if I'd mind that at the moment - I'm single and just entered a graduate program well outside what my undergrad prepared me for, so I sort of want to spend this year undistracted by things like sex. But obviously I wouldn't want that for longer than a year or so.

From what you've said, it sounds like antidepressants, while not ineffective, caused you to lose more than they were worth. So you made the rational decision to stop taking them, and found that other changes helped out. But it's impossible to know they weren't an acceptable form of treatment for you without having tried them. Do you think it was a bad decision to try them in the first place?

 

[Narz]

From what you've said, it sounds like antidepressants, while not ineffective, caused you to lose more than they were worth. So you made the rational decision to stop taking them, and found that other changes helped out. But it's impossible to know they weren't an acceptable form of treatment for you without having tried them. Do you think it was a bad decision to try them in the first place?

Well the thing is, I was only fourteen years old & there was a lot of external pressure (from my mother mostly, she often used to say "well if you had diabetes you'd take insulin, wouldn't you?") to take drugs. When the doctor gave me a name for my distress & showed me the list of symptoms (most of which I had right down to dry-mouth) and told me the main attempt at a solution was drugs I figured I should try it. I didn't really "want to" exactly but depression is pretty terrible.

I first starting taking Ritalin at age seven. You can argue a 14-year old can give some sort of consent to taking drugs but not a 7-year old. If I didn't take my Ritalin my mother would drive to school & I'd be called out of the classroom to take them by the water fountain. As you can imagine this was rather embarrassing. The reason I bring this up is that Ritalin may increase susceptibility to depression later in life & also colored my perception about solutions to emotional/behavioral problems at a young age. So the question of "choice" is a bit fuzzy.

Thruout adolescence I often resisted & resented the pressure to take drugs. Once upon refusal I literally was force fed them (this was at an alternative school that dealt with many abuse charges & eventually closed after having it's enrollment frozen).

Personally, I don't think I would have missed out on much by not having tried Ritalin (or Wellbutrin or many other drugs). I just wish I and my parents were aware of more options at that time but we weren't. At fourteen (in 1993) I'd never even heard of the Internet for instance. If my own daughter suffers any kind of emotional problems when she gets older I'll look into other reputable treatments before drugs. I won't feel like she's "missing out" to be certain. Figuring out your identity in childhood & adolescence is hard enough without wondering about when a drug ends & you begin.

 

[GoodGame]

@ Hygro. It's one thing to get a battery of medical tests done & determine you have imbalances. I got some done in 2001 or 2002 (forgot which) and found out I have a number of hormones outside the normal range, specifically my cortisol (a stress hormone) and my DHEA level was very low (about what a 60 year old might have, not a 22 year old), IIRC my serotonin was also low & my testosterone was slightly below normal.

However when a psychiatrist who does no tests tells you you have "a" chemical imbalance (but which one :runaway: ) it's a little sketchy. Do they still use this term often? Frankly, I haven't been in close contact with the industry in over 10 years.

I'd agree with you that a diagnosis of "chemical imbalance" without a discrete explanation of "your cellular metabolism/transportation of hormone B is off-kilter" where they actually explain the details, is a bit iffy. An argument of, " you're depressed, and 80% of the patients who are depressed, become better if treated with drug A," is a more convincing if still inexact argument. But yeah if they only say "you have a chemical imbalance, take a random psycho-active chemical", I would think "quack".

 

[GenMarshall]

Figuring out your identity in childhood & adolescence is hard enough without wondering about when a drug ends & you begin.

I still don't know my identity and was bullied and treated like an outcast in my adolescence years by my peers. :-/

 

[Bootstoots]

Well the thing is, I was only fourteen years old & there was a lot of external pressure (from my mother mostly, she often used to say "well if you had diabetes you'd take insulin, wouldn't you?") to take drugs. When the doctor gave me a name for my distress & showed me the list of symptoms (most of which I had right down to dry-mouth) and told me the main attempt at a solution was drugs I figured I should try it. I didn't really "want to" exactly but depression is pretty terrible.

I first starting taking Ritalin at age seven. You can argue a 14-year old can give some sort of consent to taking drugs but not a 7-year old. If I didn't take my Ritalin my mother would drive to school & I'd be called out of the classroom to take them by the water fountain. As you can imagine this was rather embarrassing. The reason I bring this up is that Ritalin may increase susceptibility to depression later in life & also colored my perception about solutions to emotional/behavioral problems at a young age. So the question of "choice" is a bit fuzzy.

Thruout adolescence I often resisted & resented the pressure to take drugs. Once upon refusal I literally was force fed them (this was at an alternative school that dealt with many abuse charges & eventually closed after having it's enrollment frozen).

Personally, I don't think I would have missed out on much by not having tried Ritalin (or Wellbutrin or many other drugs). I just wish I and my parents were aware of more options at that time but we weren't. At fourteen (in 1993) I'd never even heard of the Internet for instance. If my own daughter suffers any kind of emotional problems when she gets older I'll look into other reputable treatments before drugs. I won't feel like she's "missing out" to be certain. Figuring out your identity in childhood & adolescence is hard enough without wondering about when a drug ends & you begin.

I seriously question the practice of giving amphetamine-like stimulants to children, too. I have trouble imagining what good could come of that, and it certainly makes sense that long-term use of Ritalin and similar drugs in early life would cause depression later on.

I would, however, make a distinction between forcing Ritalin on 7-14 year-olds and giving antidepressants to adults or older teenagers. I've been treated with Wellbutrin a couple of times before during depressive episodes, and it never seemed to cause any negative effects, although I'm not entirely sure it was helpful either. That's the only antidepressant I've been on before; I've never had any SSRIs so far.

What you went through is a good example of what can, and often does, go wrong with the psychiatric profession. Many psychiatrists will push drugs on anyone, no matter the age, and anyone seeking out a psychiatrist should be aware of that. People should always be sure you know what they're putting into their bodies, and the possible risks, before they do it. And needless to say, force-feeding minors drugs isn't an ethical practice. I think your impressions of psychiatric drugs have been (quite reasonably) colored by your experiences, but that isn't necessarily what happens in all cases.

I still maintain that some people benefit from psychotropic medicine. I've seen a significant number of cases of significant improvement where the drug seemed to help more than anything else. It is a very individual thing, and of course positive lifestyle changes should (if possible) be made too.

 

[Hygro]

I have an ex-girlfriend who swears that prozac saved her life. For her it's the difference between life and the abyss. Last time I ever saw her she was on a really high dosage just to get by. Like a dosage so high the pharmacist thought it was a mistake. I hope medicine improves.

 

[azzaman333]

If I hadn't regularly seen a psychiatrist during the past 5 years, I'd almost certainly have killed myself.

 

[Kozmos]

I experience occasional hallucinations, mood swings, periods of magical thinking and paranoia and of course everyone's favourite social anxiety and panic attacks. Never went to a head shrink though. I've seen them work their black magics. Turning my other similarly afflicted friends who are even 'saner' than me into freaking zombie demons from outer space.

I did go into a depressive isolated suicidal slump 5 years ago which made me lose a year but I pulled through. Learned to handle it somehow.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

I am surprized at how many people here have issues.

I have been to a psychologist. It was in my army days, we had mandatory group therapy. I liked it. It was relaxing, interesting to see what people had to say when they really opened up and it made me feel cared about. The only problem was when we where discussing negative things. Wasn't fun when we were arguing.

 

[El_Machinae]

I'll speak up as a big fan of CBT, which is something either a psychologist or a psychiatrist can do. It's got a really nice statistical benefit (i.e., a decent proportion of success rates) and the people who improve go on to perceive that improvement (which makes them happy they've done it). Plus, it teaches people about cognition, which is inherently valuable.

I feel people's frustration when it comes to 'chemical imbalance'. The problem is that mental suffering is a symptom, and not always the cause of that symptom. It's a lot like pain, really. If you go to the doctor with a sore arm, he cannot really help you unless he can figure out what's making it sore (and there're myriad potential causes!). If he cannot figure out the cause, he can only try different painkillers.

Figuring out the causes of mental suffering is then quite a bit harder. There's just not as much research as we'd like. We need more aggressive diagnostic studies, and then more treatment studies. The problem is that there just isn't a good source of money for these efforts. Not enough people give money to mental health research, and neither do governments or companies. And it's tough to do research on patented medications, because of patent roadblocks.

It is frustrating, because I think that mental suffering (and brain disease) are going to be the major sources of suffering this century. It would be nice to get ahead of the problem.

 

[GenMarshall]

It's sad that we can take a man to the moon, yet we still struggle to get a cure for depression.

 

[dIZZyBlIZZy]

I am surprized at how many people here have issues.

I have been to a psychologist. It was in my army days, we had mandatory group therapy. I liked it. It was relaxing, interesting to see what people had to say when they really opened up and it made me feel cared about. The only problem was when we where discussing negative things. Wasn't fun when we were arguing.

Don't answer if it's too personal, but was the group for treatment or preventative? I've been out a long time now, but we never had group sessions like that, especially for those fit for full duty (also could be army/navy difference).

As for myself, I did monthly counseling for almost a year after something happened. Today though, just the annual TDOC evals to make sure staff isn't going to suddenly lose it and kill an inmate or coworker or somesuch. We also have incredible mental health benefits available, but it should not surprise anyone with knowledge of how corrections works.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Don't answer if it's too personal, but was the group for treatment or preventative? I've been out a long time now, but we never had group sessions like that, especially for those fit for full duty (also could be army/navy difference).

As for myself, I did monthly counseling for almost a year after something happened. Today though, just the annual TDOC evals to make sure staff isn't going to suddenly lose it and kill an inmate or coworker or somesuch. We also have incredible mental health benefits available, but it should not surprise anyone with knowledge of how corrections works.

No, all squads in my battalion (I have no idea about other parts of the army) Had group therapy.

 

[homeyg]

I am very depressed because I did things that pushed away the girl I love.

I also have severe social anxiety.

I don't have any female friends anymore.

I do drugs.

Nobody can help me because I can't help but lie to people trying to help me because not even I can't fathom the things that I've done in my past, or even come up with true reasons to why I did them.



Looks like I'm on my own now...

 

[Kozmos]

It's sad that we can take a man to the moon, yet we still struggle to get a cure for depression.

A man is not a machine. Not yet at least. Though there is a cure for depression. It requires cracking your skull and putting wires into your brain. Expensive and not that popular.

 

[ArneHD]

I am very depressed because I did things that pushed away the girl I love.

I also have severe social anxiety.

I don't have any female friends anymore.

I do drugs.

Nobody can help me because I can't help but lie to people trying to help me because not even I can't fathom the things that I've done in my past, or even come up with true reasons to why I did them.



Looks like I'm on my own now...

Can't get help without asking, can't ask without getting help. I recognize this from myself.

 

[emzie]

I am surprized at how many people here have issues.

I have been to a psychologist. It was in my army days, we had mandatory group therapy. I liked it. It was relaxing, interesting to see what people had to say when they really opened up and it made me feel cared about. The only problem was when we where discussing negative things. Wasn't fun when we were arguing.

People who have / had mental health problems are more likely to contribute to this thread.