[Modmodmod] RFC:Europe Extra Civs

[Morholt]

I just did not like it that HRE: No appears all over the Map, even in Thrace. If only the potential HRE provinces appear HRE No it would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Good idea.

Also would not you agree that Lombardy could have some Renaissance centered 3rd UHV, for a change? Last UHV is good for a gameplay -- to assure human player would not wipe up Venice and Genoa, but historically those Italian city were rivals, only uniting to fight the Emperor. After Emperor's death the League was dissolved. Build all the renaissance wonders would prolong the game and underscore the importance of Italy in the matters of culture, not just politics.

Hmm.. or perhaps something about spreading tech? I'll have to think about this.

I don't know why I bother to post in this thread...

I don't always reply to every post in this thread, unless they are explicitly asking for clarification on something. I do read all of them though!

 

[Tigranes]

I don't know why I bother to post in this thread...

Why do you sound so upset? We all saw your pics and I think you have a point there. Morholt made Lombardy because he was tired to see Genoan Milan, but now we see Lombard Genoa, with Genoa pushed to Corsica. Should happen only after AI-wars if ever, IMO...

 

[hoplitejoe]

It is more the fact that I have been ignored with every post I have made, I even took time to try and find some of the art you wanted. Even if it was of no use I would have liked something to suggest you took a second to look at it.
TBH I have had this problem over the whole of the RFCE subforum, I just find it rude to have people completely ignore your suggestions, I don't expect people to act on my ideas, just not to have them ignored constantly.

 

[AbsintheRed]

It is more the fact that I have been ignored with every post I have made, I even took time to try and find some of the art you wanted. Even if it was of no use I would have liked something to suggest you took a second to look at it.
TBH I have had this problem over the whole of the RFCE subforum, I just find it rude to have people completely ignore your suggestions, I don't expect people to act on my ideas, just not to have them ignored constantly.

That's just not true
I for example always try to answer as many post as I can when I have some modding time (and I'm sure the others do the same)
It just happen that the few modders here, including Morholt with RFCE++, don't have as much time to mod as we want to.
Both Morholt and I are having busy time periods in our universities, 3Miro and Merijn have even less free time with their jobs
(or Merijn also attends to college... actually I'm not really sure on this )

Anyway, luckily the RFCE subforum is very much alive compared to other mods' forums, and this is absolutely great.
But you have to understand that sometimes it can be rather time-consuming to the modders
Not complaining at all, please keep up with the great feedback everyone
Just be understandable if you are not answered right away, or not at all in a few cases.
Btw foruming does take away from the actual time we spend on modding.

 

[CrossRFC]

Quick post to report a typo: the HRE Decree to Collect Common Gold: it's receive gold, not recieve.

 

[amrod]

I for one can say that folks often replied to my suggestions and questions

 

[Buddhafish]

I really love the HRE system. It makes the game much more interesting. I do have a few questions though in General about the Alpha 5 changes:

Since now there's both Lombardy AND Genoa in Italy, should Germany still be required to control Lombardy and Tuscany? There are now two civs there, Genoa stocks up on mercenaries, and there are usually 2 or 3 cities in Tuscany alone (Pisa, Firenze, Ancona), not to mention Milan and Torino (if Lombardy founds it). That's alot of cities, and both Genoa and Lombardy have at least one of them each.

Why does Bohemia have to control Carinthia (in Venezia)?

Now getting to the HRE:
Since there is alot of hatred running about in the HRE, would it be plausable to have a +1 relations boost between you and the Emperor if you voted for him. So, if I'm Bohemia and I vote that Phillip the Bold should be Emperor, and Phillip becomes Emperor, he would have +1 relations boost with me, saying something like 'You voted for me'. Just a thought.

I've noticed that the HRE members, at least up until 1250, are: Germany, Burgundy, Lombardy, Genoa, and Bohemia. What are the requierments to be an HRE member and can other civs become part of the HRE?

I've noticed that if a civ has a city in a province that is HRE:Yes then they get votes in the HRE. This usually happens in my games with Denmark and Poland. The one thing I found that was a bit strange though, is that if the Emperor decides to expell a province (Brandenburg usually, which usually is Polish for example), then that empire continues to get HRE votes, even though none of their cities are in HRE:Yes provinces. Is this a bug?

Great additions, though. Very useful.

 

[Tigranes]

Spoiler :

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I was an Emperor and all the HRE elector members are at war with me, so I was the only one who could vote. Justinian was dead for few centuries -- I think the code picked him as the first in the general list of leaders. In the cases like this the only eligible voting member should be able to vote for himself, IMO. Otherwise please see below about my idea with Pope's vote.


In short -- HRE system is an (unpolished) gem. We need something like this for regular RFCE as well. Austrias UP will help her to get elected to the Emperor.

Here are my suggestions for RFCE++:

1. Rome is an Imperial City. We badly need to include Church's vote -- this is Holy Roman Empire after all. Bishops were among electors from the beginning. And, at least from the thirteenth century, there were seven electors, three spiritual (the Archbishop of Mainz, the Archbishop of Trier, and the Archbishop of Cologne) and four lay (the King of Bohemia, the Count Palatine of the Rhine, the Duke of Saxony, and the Margrave of Brandenburg. Every imperial city with a catholic cross gives Pope 1 vote, Monastery -- 2, Church -- 3 and Cathedral -- 5. Pope can never be elected and votes randomly for the player with the highest Piety and lowest score (Popes don't like strong Emperors, but sometimes supported those who could be Protectors of Church). In the cases like in my posted picture Church's vote will insure that somebody will be elected. Also, elected Emperor receives a Crown from the Pope in exchange for a tech. This way Pope will get free techs from every election and if there are no new techs to give to Pope -- the Pope does not crown the elected Emperor. After the reformation Catholic Church will have very little votes.


2. Vanila Vassal System and HRE system overlapping with some crazy results. Burgundy was volunteer vassal of Germany. If Germany defies the resolution (Never!) and Burgundy is the Emperor -- vassal must declare on her master! Also masters end up electing their vassals. And there are many other confusions. I suggest that civs with the capitals inside HRE cannot have HRE vassals and cannot be vassals to HRE state themselves. This way HRE mechanics will not interfere with regular vassal rules.


3. Germany is currently very strong and acting like a 2nd Reich, not like the 1st. HRE mechanics has a potential to realistically simulate decentralization of Germany. Emperor should be able to propose 2 new measures: Stopping the Wars (Peace and Truce of God) and creating defensive March or Mark -- taking from Germany some newly conquered border city and making it "peaceful" independent city. By the way -- Independent Leader must be able to vote too! So when playing Germany Human Player would need either to keep high Piety to compensate for high score and get the vote of the Church, or be nice with other HRE members to get their vote. Otherwise stability might get low when loosing a city because of the Emperor.


4. There should be no "Abstain" vote and at least 2 alternatives ("Guelph" and "Ghibelline") when voting for Emperor. If no alternative is available, i.e. Germany took over Burgundy, Lombardy, Bohemia and Austria or only 1 HRE member is eligible to vote (like in my case) -- then Germany is allowed to vote for herself and Church is voting for "virtual" Guelph Independent leader (who has no cities but still bugs Germany as elected Emperor).

 

[CrossRFC]

I concur. Germany is much too powerful in the HRE.

 

[Sian]

I've noticed that if a civ has a city in a province that is HRE:Yes then they get votes in the HRE. This usually happens in my games with Denmark and Poland.

at least for Denmark it does have ties into history ... from 1460 onwards Holstein was the Danish Kings personal Fiefdom, which was a part of HRE up to its desolution in 1815 doing the Vienna Congress (where it was replaced with a tighter organized 'german confederation', in which Denmark and Prussia, which was the De facto leader, had a number of clashes over holstien and Schleswig up though the century, all the way till the Treaty of Versailles in the aftermath of WW1, where Schleswig was partitioned after a vote, and futher suggested, that Denmark should gain rest of Schleswig as war repayments after WW2, which denmark denied, arguebly from fear that they would be to interesting a strategic target, and nationalistic clashes between Danes and Germans)

 

[CrossRFC]

I found a new bug: it appears that when I get a message that my civ has collapsed, nothing happens. This happens every time, which essentially means I never collapse.

 

[Tigranes]

Independents are very ineffective in representing hussites. Replacing them with Barbarians would capture the spirit of events better:

At the end of the Hussite Wars in 1431 the lands of Bohemia had been totally ravished. The bishopric of Würzburg was left in such bad shape after the Hussite Wars, that the impoverishment of the people was still evident in 1476.

In my game Independents took over my Warsaw, pillaged almost nothing, war wagons crossed the border and camped there for a long time, only acting when a defenceless Worker was careless to pass by. They engaged my unit only on 1 single occasion -- and this is with Agressive AI! Central Europe don't see much Barbarian pressure anyway, and Taborists were fighting against everybody -- much like typical Barbarians do. Imperial Diet or the Pope could call a crusade against them.

By the way, I liked the addition of Bohemia after all. The 3rd UHV is very hard with aggressive AI -- lots of wars against Germany and Austria. Badly missing a measure by an Emperor to establish peace (old fashioned -- Stop fight amoung brothers in faith).

Also, I was never been offered to become a Protestant and never collapsed even though the message said I did like 5 times. Bohemian UP was never directly experienced -- I lost troops and money because of the Emperor's measures nearly everytime and Germany never voted for me. Plus when you are at war with the current Emperor -- no elections occur. I was living almost 100 years (30 turns) without a single election and was sure I will lose the second UHV as well. Can we please have elections every 10 turns and measures every 3 turns?

Finally I never understood your intention behind the "raise I.I." measure -- why do we need this for a gameplay and what is the historical evidence of Imperial Diet confirming the removal of the province from the Empire? What does low I.I. do in a first place -- Measure to raise Imperial Host passes but Emperor gets no soldiers? I.I. is a good thing but removal of a province seems unrealistic and silly -- who does it anyway? Borders of Empire could be scripted to change in accordance with this timeline, by the game, not by the HRE members. Perhaps Raise I.I. would substract 1 stability point from each members and add the sum to the I.I points? The higher is I.I. the lower is internal integrity and the strength of individual players, so they have a incentive to vote no!

 

[Cetrix]

Hello there,

This modmodmod is really great. I played with the Norwegians and reach the first goal, but the second one I don't understand what "The Isles" means. And where is the Vinland ? On this map, I can only see the Island and not the Americas. Can you help me ?

 

[civ_king]

Hello there,

This modmodmod is really great. I played with the Norwegians and reach the first goal, but the second one I don't understand what "The Isles" means. And where is the Vinland ? On this map, I can only see the Island and not the Americas. Can you help me ?

The Isles refer to the Isle of Man and the Hebrides, Vinland is a colony that require the North America Access resource which is found by Iceland

 

[civ_king]

I selected never on a proposition as Lombardy went to war with Burgundy the next turn, killed around a dozen units wiping them out and got zero credit, how can I kill those 25?

 

[urban]

Been playing Bohemia. The first UHV is definitely doable, the second two far less so. The first time I played, Austria got powerful quickly and steamrolled me, which is great and historical (though it happened a bit early.) I loaded my savegame and gifted the cities that would flip to Austria to Germany right beforehand, so that Germany declared war on Austria at spawn, which made my life much easier.

As for mission 2, I'm not sure what to do. I had about 60 votes, as did Germany. Of course, I couldn't vote for my self, and no matter how friendly I was with Germany, they didn't vote for me.

As for UHV 3, Poland, Germany and Burgundy are all much much larger, and Bohemia is technically behind them, so won't be able to defeat them. I also wonder what the justification for this UHV is. Bohemia was never (as far as I know) large. There is some small claim to Prague being a huge city, but that was because it was largely not affected by the Plague.

Which brings me to my next point: Hussites. Hot Damn. First of all, they have those wagons, which I certaintly didn't have the tech for. More importantly, they come very shortly after that Plague - I was still rebuilding each cities' first defensive unit when one flipped and went got like 15 wagons.

How to fix this? I'm not sure. I think getting imperial good will by voting for others is a good idea. But in any case, I'm not sure this is something that is under the player's control, so may not be a good UHV (even though I suggested it). As for the hussites and the 3rd UHV, maybe bohemia could be immune to plague?

Otherwise, great great great!

 

[civ_king]

It would be much appreciated if we could have a HRE guide on the front page

 

[Baron03]

Is adding new civs definitely out? Now that the HRE system is in place, it becomes possible for several small nations to replace the Kingdom of Germany (which never really existed as a centralized entity) and still stand a chance against their neighbours. A whole bunch of ideas: Bavaria; Brandenburg; Hesse or Brunswick or Würzburg for that area; Saxony or Thuringia; Brabant; The Palatinate or Baden-Württemberg (which were two seperate political entities, but are too small to represent individually); finally, Switzerland. Other options: Frankfurt, Köln,

I think splitting up Germany would be a good idea, but only when beta for this mod is complete

 

[Cetrix]

The Isles refer to the Isle of Man and the Hebrides, Vinland is a colony that require the North America Access resource which is found by Iceland

Ok it's done for The Isles. I set a colony in Island and it gives me free colonial trade route. But... still can't do the Vinland ! Why ? The French and the English collapsed and nobody built a traderoute anyway.

 

[Tigranes]

Do you have a tech for Vinland? Just check Pedia or F8 screen.