Motivations for being a fascist

[Berzerker]

ok but so what?

What do you think these links show? What do you think they mean?

"The sector spent around 2.5 times more money on electing President Joe Biden than it did on reelecting former President Donald Trump, the data showed."

They show corporations run the country and preferred Biden over Trump and the meme was probably created by a partisan Democrat who didn't put much thought into it. The censors won the White House and Trump is the fascist?

Trump's goal was to merge his businesses with the government for his enrichment. He is still doing it using campaign funds to enrich his companies. His PAC is paying Trump Tower $37,000/month for space not used by 3 people.

Thats corruption, fascism is an ideology. And we basically have a fascistic system, big government and big business write the laws and start the wars and we've had plenty of both.

 

[Zardnaar]

"The sector spent around 2.5 times more money on electing President Joe Biden than it did on reelecting former President Donald Trump, the data showed."

They show corporations run the country and preferred Biden over Trump and the meme was probably created by a partisan Democrat who didn't put much thought into it. The censors won the White House and Trump is the fascist?



Thats corruption, fascism is an ideology. And we basically have a fascistic system, big government and big business write the laws and start the wars and we've had plenty of both.

Corporations basically run the show.

Main difference is pre Trump the Democrats were better at raising from grassroots while the GoP were heavily reliant on corporate donations.

Not sure about indirect money spent via PACs.

 

[FriendlyFire]

If Clinton and Biden got more corporate $$$ than Trump would that mean they're fascists? I dont think Trump made many friends on Wall St or in government, sure looked like the establishment and deep state preferred Democrats. Fascism arrives wearing a halo, Jesus wore a crown of thorns.

Hotels and Commercial rents have been filling the President Pockets directly.
You think that after all this time you would be able to also connect the dots between the GOP and Corporations.

Trump’s Businesses Raked In $1.9 Billion Of Revenue During His First Three Years In Office
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...venue-during-his-first-three-years-in-office/

 

[TheMeInTeam]

These people support authoritarianism and the crushing of any form of political activism and extra-judicial detention of any inconvenient groups, which they consider a danger to stability. They are definitely fundamentally motivated by fear

This argument would be met very differently in other recent threads, despite applying identically with the same rationale. People are so quick to advocate removing individual liberty, as long as they happen to agree with the action doing so at the moment. Processes put in place as a safeguard against that be damned, apparently.

If Clinton and Biden got more corporate $$$ than Trump would that mean they're fascists?

Corruption and authoritarianism are bad things, however it might be useful to define terms in a way that works. Fascists are authoritarians, but not all authoritarians are fascists specifically.

Neither major US party is fascist, but we've been on an authoritarian tilt/trend for quite some time now, one that seems to suit both parties fine given past 20 years.

At least one forum member here who uses it often also rails about how he wouldn't mind putting certain groups of the population in camps & probably fantasizes about outright expulsion/extermination.

I feel like we should take our cravings to demonize each other with a grain of salt.

Indeed.

 

[aelf]

This argument would be met very differently in other recent threads, despite applying identically with the same rationale. People are so quick to advocate removing individual liberty, as long as they happen to agree with the action doing so at the moment. Processes put in place as a safeguard against that be damned, apparently.

Then what do you say about people who advocate removing individual liberty regardless of the circumstances or the issue concerned?

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

Lol that describes how people choose most of their belief systems.

Regarding facism I don't know much about the ideology, here in the states it seems mostly used as a pejorative. At least one forum member here who uses it often also rails about how he wouldn't mind putting certain groups of the population in camps & probably fantasizes about outright expulsion/extermination.

I feel like we should take our cravings to demonize each other with a grain of salt.

mmmm, salty demons.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Then what do you say about people who advocate removing individual liberty regardless of the circumstances or the issue concerned?

I defy the implication that such a person exists.

"Regardless of circumstances" implies that hypothetical person would ALWAYS advocate removing liberty. Even in the context of removing it for them specifically, in a way that they themselves perceive as arbitrary. I have never observed this hypothetical, even from the most..."logically challenged" people I've ever seen. I don't think that stance aligns to any human utility function. Not even cartoon evil type people.

 

[Farm Boy]

I defy the implication that such a person exists.

They're there. We've historical examples of them. Timur killed maybe ~20% of the planetary population so he could widow and/or just... take, lets say, ~50 to however many women. He's certainly not alone even if he was particularly flashy.

They don't have to follow some slavish devotion to "REMOVE LIBERTY = TRUE" in order to think the only proper order for the world is prostrate at their feet.

Though, now that we find ourselves at where we are with tech, I think a computer would make an absolutely stellar fascist.

 

[Josu]

Personally, I am surrounded by fascists.

Just curisity, where do you live? The country will be enough.
Will understand if you do not want to answer.

I can not answer your question, I have not meet a single person who admits being a Fascist in my live. I have meet people supporting other totalitatian movements, but not Fascism.

 

[H4run]

Just curisity, where do you live? The country will be enough.
Will understand if you do not want to answer.

I can not answer your question, I have not meet a single person who admits being a Fascist in my live. I have meet people supporting other totalitatian movements, but not Fascism.

So, if their ideas, activism, objective and movement are fascist, would they be fascist? Or an oral or written manifesto are required? Without that, despite all the fitting characteristic they are not fascists?

I mean if particular group of "cows" acts like a duck, sound like a duck, walk like a duck, eat duck's food, but they claimed themselves to be cows, are they ducks? or just some weird self-proclaim cows?

 

[Josu]

So, if their ideas, activism, objective and movement are fascist, would they be fascist? Or an oral or written manifesto are required? Without that, despite all the fitting characteristic they are not fascists?

I mean if particular group of "cows" acts like a duck, sound like a duck, walk like a duck, eat duck's food, but they claimed themselves to be cows, are they ducks? or just some weird self-proclaim cows?

I have meet several people admiting being a commie, a nationalist, a liberal, a socialist, even a Carlist or suporting ETA but never a Fascist, that is what I mean.

 

[Samson]

So, if their ideas, activism, objective and movement are fascist, would they be fascist? Or an oral or written manifesto are required? Without that, despite all the fitting characteristic they are not fascists?

I mean if particular group of "cows" acts like a duck, sound like a duck, walk like a duck, eat duck's food, but they claimed themselves to be cows, are they ducks? or just some weird self-proclaim cows?

There is the problem when the real world is full of geese and duck billed platypuses, which do we put in the cow class and which the duck class? Though really I mean out of Xi, Duterte, Trump and BoJo who can we call a fascist? Philosophy tube advocates for not trying to answer, but instead judge actions, ie. are they "doing a fascist" rather than "are they fascist" which seems to me both easier and more productive, as one can criticise particular actions (which people can change) rather than who people are.

 

[H4run]

There is the problem when the real world is full of geese and duck billed platypuses, which do we put in the cow class and which the duck class? Though really I mean out of Xi, Duterte, Trump and BoJo who can we call a fascist? Philosophy tube advocates for not trying to answer, but instead judge actions, ie. are they "doing a fascist" rather than "are they fascist" which seems to me both easier and more productive, as one can criticise particular actions (which people can change) rather than who people are.

Very nice, dragging the discussion out from the circular ontological debate, to more clear judging by action based discussion. It pretty much pinned the target in its place.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I have meet several people admiting being a commie, a nationalist, a liberal, a socialist, even a Carlist or suporting ETA but never a Fascist, that is what I mean.

No Falangists?
I can understand them being uncommon in the Basque country, given history, but they are present in Spain.

 

[Josu]

No Falangists?
I can understand them being uncommon in the Basque country, given history, but they are present in Spain.

The Carlist party, Comunión Carlista, was included in the Falange in 1937.
I have no idea if this person I meet was happy with this inclusion in the Falange, probably yes, but I can not say it with certainty

 

[sendos]

All this pointless talk of political ideology. It makes more sense to talk about the tribalisation of current politics around the world and how it's harder to have a healthy constructive political debate about anything, along with the growing hatred of all things "establishment".

 

[aelf]

I defy the implication that such a person exists.

"Regardless of circumstances" implies that hypothetical person would ALWAYS advocate removing liberty. Even in the context of removing it for them specifically, in a way that they themselves perceive as arbitrary. I have never observed this hypothetical, even from the most..."logically challenged" people I've ever seen. I don't think that stance aligns to any human utility function. Not even cartoon evil type people.

Then you lack curiosity. This is written in the OP:

support authoritarianism and the crushing of any form of political activism [as well as] extra-judicial detention of any inconvenient groups

Those people don't discriminate between causes for political activism. They simply oppose any and all opposition to established authority. If that's not fascism, then what is?

Just curisity, where do you live? The country will be enough.

Singapore.

I can not answer your question, I have not meet a single person who admits being a Fascist in my live. I have meet people supporting other totalitatian movements, but not Fascism.

The concept of fascism is not an easy one to grasp. It also has the curse of having lost a world war and be thoroughly vilified such that the label is unsexy. Most people fail to grasp Marxism or communism as well, but those do not suffer from the same curse - at least not to the same extent.

So it's no surprise that few would self-identify as fascists, even if their political beliefs are fascist in nature.

 

[Samson]

Those people don't discriminate between causes for political activism. They simply oppose any and all opposition to established authority. If that's not fascism, then what is?

Could this not also be said about Xi Jinping? I am not supporting him, but he is not accurately or usefully called a fascist. Surely you need some other features beside authoritarianism?

 

[aelf]

Could this not also be said about Xi Jinping? I am not supporting him, but he is not accurately or usefully called a fascist.

Why not?

 

[Samson]

Why not?

Fascism has always been inherently anti communist. Not that the CCP is really communist, but "a communist fascist" is an oxymoron. Other features that are generally associated with fascism that are not really obvious at the top of Chinese politics are machismo, corporatism and anti-intellectualism. I am not sure that the Han centrism of China is quite the same as the "genetic racism" that is usually associated with fascism, but I am not really qualified to comment about that in this audience.