Much Ado About Lesbian Teen Sex?

Formaldehyde

Both Fair And Balanced
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Or is it an incredibly serious felony?

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Carol Hunt: Kate debate: is she gay teen lover or paedophile?

Homophobia and teenage sex lie at the heart of a case in Florida which is causing a social media storm.

Teen lover or sexual predator? Devoted partner or calculating molester? Child or criminal? Kaitlyn Hunt (no relation) has been called all of the above in the few months since she was arrested in western Florida, and charged with two counts of "lewd and lascivious battery on a child 12-16" (her 15-year-old partner). On Wednesday, at her first and only press conference, a traumatised Kaitlyn, who looks a lot younger than her 18 years, said: "I'm scared of losing my life, the rest of my life, not being able to go to college and be around kids, my sisters and my family."

It's a case that serves to remind us in Ireland of how insensitive laws covering teen sex are. Under our own Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2006 (sometimes known as the Romeo and Juliet law), if two teenagers under 17 years of age are having sex, then the boy is guilty of an offence but not the girl. It's discriminatory and also completely crazy to deal with teen sex through the hammer of the law, but there you are; the Supreme Court upheld this lunacy just last year, and young boys, in consensual relationships, can be charged under it. An obscene piece of gender discrimination if you ask me – and rather tempting, one would suspect, for the parents of young girls with undesirable boyfriends (as many decent young men can initially appear to a doting parent) to threaten to report the bowsie to the guards.

The case of Kaitlyn Hunt in Florida, however, is different in that there are no boys involved whatsoever. The story starts a year ago when Kaitlyn met, and fell in love with, a young girl on her basketball team. Kaitlyn was then 17 and the younger girl just 14.

When their coach found out about their relationship she kicked Kaitlyn off the team and informed the younger girl's parents that she was in a same-sex relationship.

When Kaitlyn turned 18 the younger girl's parents obtained the evidence (taped phone calls) they needed to charge Kaitlyn with a felony and went to the police.

There are two loud and conflicting camps commenting on this case. The first is that of Kaitlyn, her family and supporters, all of whom are asserting that Kaitlyn was charged because she was in a same-sex relationship with a girl whose parents do not believe – or want to believe – their daughter is gay. Homophobia, they say, is the issue. Kids in high school have sexual relationships every day. If it had been a young boy instead of Kaitlyn the authorities would never have become involved, they insist.

On the other side, the young girl's parents, the police and the school board (who expelled Kaitlyn) are insisting that this is a cut and dried charge concerning an adult suspect and a child victim. As the age of consent in Florida is 16, they assert that consent does not matter if the victim is under that age – nor, they assert, does the sexuality of the adult suspect. They are just upholding the law and protecting the vulnerable. The attorney for the younger girl's family said: "The issue here has nothing do with whether a relationship existed. What happened was a crime was committed, and that's a crime under Florida law, and that crime is being prosecuted."

The story would probably have stayed within the confines of Florida and neighbouring states if not for social media. Kaitlyn's supporters have used Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Change.org, Reddit – pretty much every site I've ever heard of and many that I haven't – to garner support for their cause. Both the American Civil Liberties Union and the internet activist group Anonymous have condemned the prosecution, the latter saying the case is motivated by "intolerance". All over America supporters of Hunt are wearing T-shirts, bangles and carrying posters and placards that read: "Stop the Hate, Free Kate."

There would seem to be two issues here. The first, as in Ireland, concerns the handling of sex between teens. Chances are there are more than a few teenage boys under the age of 17 having consensual sex in Ireland at the moment (goodness me, maybe even right at this exact moment!) with 16- year-old girls.

Do you know any? If you do, why aren't you marching them into your local police station and insisting that they be charged with statutory rape?

One presumes the reason most adults don't do this is because they figure it may not be the best way to deal with hormonal teenagers in the throes of consensual sexual relationships. Not if they want to continue having a trusting relationship with their child, that is. Or perhaps – like a lot of Irish parents – they'd prefer to keep their fingers crossed that the kids are using contraception and not have to comment one way or another. Don't ask, don't tell and hopefully they won't be grandparents just yet ...

The second issue is the scourge of homophobia. Research shows that homophobic bullying has increased dramatically over the past seven years not just in the US but worldwide. The increase in religious fundamentalism of all hues hasn't helped. Life for gay teens – and adults – can be horribly tough.

Yet while some people know instinctively that they are heterosexual or homosexual from a young age, many teens will experiment with their sexuality – they're not so sure, and adolescence can be a confusing time. Boys may try out sex with other boys and girls with other girls. For many it will just be that, an experiment or exploration with a friend they trust; for others it will be their given sexual orientation. And for some, like Kaitlyn, it will become a crime for which she will be severely punished.

On Friday Kaitlyn refused to accept a plea deal which would have allowed her to avoid registering as a sex offender for life if she pleaded guilty to lesser charges of child abuse. She will appear in court on June 15th and if convicted, could face up to 15 years in prison.

Tough love, eh?

Slate: Is Kaitlyn Hunt Being Punished Because She Is Gay?

It looks that way. But her case is about more than gay rights.

Kaitlyn Hunt, an 18-year-old Florida student, is getting lots of sympathy after being criminally charged over her sexual relationship with her 14-year-old girlfriend. Hunt and the younger girl were basketball teammates. Hunt’s parents say the girl’s parents went to the police, “because they blamed Kaitlyn for their child's homosexuality,” as CBS put it. Hunt’s family put up a Facebook page called “Free Kate,” with links to T-shirts, bracelets, and a petition. More than 45,000 people have signed it. The Florida ACLU has spoken out on her behalf, saying this is a harmless, consensual relationship.

The mother of the younger girl, meanwhile, reportedly says that “she's just a mom protecting her daughter” and that this is not about gay rights. The prosecutors also see no shadow of homophobia. "The law doesn't make any differentiation. It doesn't matter if it's two girls or two boys, or an older boy and a younger girl or an older girl and a younger boy. Whatever the combination, it doesn't matter," State Attorney Bruce Colton said. His office charged Hunt in February with two counts of lewd and lascivious battery of a child. She has been expelled from school. Now she has to decide whether to plead guilty to lesser charges of child abuse, in exchange for which, Colton says, he’ll recommend a sentence of two years of house arrest. If Hunt goes to trial, on the other hand, she could wind up having to register as a sex offender (though she could also fight that outcome, under Florida law, because she and her alleged victim are only four years apart in age). Update, May 24: Hunt opted not to take the plea deal Friday. If convicted, she faces a maximum 15-year sentence.

It’s hard for me to see how you can take the homophobia out of this case. And if Hunt truly was having a consensual relationship, then these proposed sentences seem out of whack—and that applies to two years of house arrest as well as the sex offender registry. I’m struck, though, by the stark contrast between the support for Kaitlyn Hunt and the denunciation of various 17- and 18-year-old boys who have been charged with sex crimes because of their relationships, or encounters, with 15- or 14-year-old girls. Is this case really so different because its about two girls? Or does it reveal a larger problem with charging older teenagers for having sex with younger ones?

Compare Hunt to Genarlow Wilson, convicted at 17 of child molestation for having oral sex with a 15-year-old girl at a New Year’s party. Or consider the case of Marcus Dwayne Dixon, prosecuted when he was an 18-year-old high school football star for raping a 15-year-old girl who said he’d forced her to lose her virginity. The jury found Dixon not guilty of rape, but convicted him of statutory rape: The girl was underage, and she and Dixon had sex. Both Wilson and Dixon got mandatory 10-year sentences, and each served two years before the Georgia Supreme Court struck down the punishment as “grossly disproportionate” to the crime.

Does it matter that Wilson and Dixon are black? That the girl in Dixon’s case was white? That after their convictions, the Georgia legislature made consensual sex between teenagers a misdemeanor? My point is that it’s so hard to know which older teenagers are predatory and which are in love, or at least fond of each other, with younger teenagers who love or like them back. Kaitlyn Hunt’s parents are understandably complaining about selective prosecution. They are absolutely right that most of the time no one calls the cops when a high school senior has sex with a freshman. But if the uneven enforcement of statutory rape laws is a problem, then it’s also a problem for the rare boy who gets caught in a prosecutor’s web. Surely most of the time, it’s a call from an unhappy parent that prompts police involvement. Is that OK as long as the parent is protecting a daughter from an older guy, from not if the perceived threat is an older girl?

Weighing all of this a few years ago, along with research on the adolescent brain, my colleague Will Saletan proposed a sliding scale of consent to sex for teenagers. The states, meanwhile, are all over the map in determining at what ages, and with what age spans between partners, consensual sex should be treated as a crime. Some have passed “Romeo and Juliet” laws, which protect two teenagers who are only a few years apart in age from prosecution, or at least knock down the potential charges to a misdemeanor offense.

I don’t have an easy answer to all the confusion. I can see why a 14-year-old’s parents would be wary of her 18-year-old boyfriend. But if the law treats that boy as a criminal, then why not the 18-year-old girlfriend? Maybe the better answer is that parental wariness just shouldn’t translate into criminal charges in a case involving two high school students and a three or four-year age gap. Kaitlyn Hunt’s plight is about gay rights. But it’s not only about that.
What do you think?
 
They had sex when the older lass was 18 and the younger girl was 14, needless to say terribad idea
 
Her partner was below the age of consent. So, lock her up, she's a criminal.

Hunt's status as an upperclassman means there may not have been a completely equal relationship. Senior high school students probably should not have intimate relationships with freshmen.

There's a case to be made that Hunt was singled out because there was a same-sex relationship here. There's also a case to be made that the law should apply to all parties, regardless of sexuality.

However, it is odd that the parents wanted until Hunt was 18 before they dropped the dime on the relationship, thereby assuring that Hunt would be tried as an adult. Which is curious. Might have to know more about the timing and why the parents choose that time. Might also have to know more about the parents; cases like this don't get on the docket unless the parents have a beef.
 
I'm not seeing the issue here. It's a crime regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual. Are you suggesting that homosexuals should be above the law?
 
I read about this a few days ago. I don't see it as a case of homophobia because as the slate article points out, boys have been charged with more for even less of a gender gap in Florida.

I'm surprised that Ireland has such blatant gender discrimination in this law, the article implies that if two teenagers the same age are having sex then the boy is guilty of a crime and the girl is not. And the Supreme Court upheld it. A case of gender discrimination not being considered important if it affects males.
 
It's a case of Florida prosecutors not using their discretion not to prosecute. Just ask Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman.
 
Wish I would have recorded Nancy disGrace on the day the Casey Anthony verdict came down. While waiting for the verdict to be announced, she was praising the jury for such swift justice and pointing out how smart they were (highlighting their professions). Once the verdict came out, she was questioning the speed of the decision (why, oh why, did they not take the time to go over all the evidence) and how dumb people end up on juries.
 
I think she devoted an entire year to that case. Any time I tuned in to her show that was all she was talking about. A friend of a friend had lunch with her and said she was pretty nice in person, of course anyone can appear nice at lunch, it's not like they're mean 24/7 in any situation.
 
I'm not seeing the issue here. It's a crime regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual. Are you suggesting that homosexuals should be above the law?

It's a stupid rutting law, as are those that prevent jaywalking. The law is not god.

I would suggest that people should be above the law, because the law is a thing created by us to serve our needs, and this is plainly a case of the law not serving anyone's needs except for those of a couple of bigoted parents.
 
It's a case of Florida prosecutors not using their discretion not to prosecute. Just ask Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman.
They actually have a discretion not to prosecute something that can be punished with up to 15 years in prison?
If true, I am not sure which is worse - draconian punishment for such a victimless crime or ridiculously selective enforcement of law.
 
Obviously it isn't a victimless crime. The parents of the young child obviously believe in the law and acknowledge that their child is not emotionally mature enough to properly consent to such action.
 
Obviously it isn't a victimless crime. The parents of the young child obviously believe in the law and acknowledge that their child is not emotionally mature enough to properly consent to such action.
That would mean that she, at worst, might have been a victim. Of being indecently fondled by her teammate, no less.

If the offender faced something more reasonable - like few months of shock imprisonment - I wouldn't have a problem neither with punishment nor prosecutorial discretion.
 
I've read about this, she should have taken the very generous plea deal it's alot better then others will ever be offered. A 14 year old cannot consent
 
Of course a fourteen year old can consent. We simply don't regard that consent as having any legal weight, which is altogether different matter, because it's a matter of consensus and thus flexible, for better or worse, and not simply a matter of fact.
 
I'm seeing a lot of people who are defending Kate in those two articles claiming that the prosecution is motivated by homophobia. I'm not seeing much in the articles that back those assertions up.

I quite agree that there are problems with how the law handles teen sex and that we shouldn't necessarily treat that which is illegal as unjustifiable. Nor do the penalties necessarily fit the crime.

That said, I don't at all blame the parents for wanting to keep their 14 year old out of a relationship with an 17 year old, and if the law provided them with a means of ending that relationship I don't blame them for taking it. But I hope the parents of the 14 year old are pushing for a lenient sentence, that they first tried to get the two to end their relationship without going to the law, and that they went to the Hunts before the police.

Kaitlyn Hunt should not have been expelled from school.
 
They had sex when the older lass was 18 and the younger girl was 14, needless to say terribad idea
She was actually 17 at the time it occurred. And the girl was 15 when charges were filed after Kaitlyn Hunt turned 18.

Hunt's status as an upperclassman means there may not have been a completely equal relationship. Senior high school students probably should not have intimate relationships with freshmen.
AFAIK there are no 9th Grade-12th Grade high schools in Florida. This is one of the reasons why.

It isn't that unusual for 12th graders to date 10th graders. And they typically don't face 15 years in prison and being labeled a sex offender for life for doing so.

I read about this a few days ago. I don't see it as a case of homophobia because as the slate article points out, boys have been charged with more for even less of a gender gap in Florida.
Those were both highly unusual cases that occurred in Georgia, which is why they were even mentioned.

I'm seeing a lot of people who are defending Kate in those two articles claiming that the prosecution is motivated by homophobia. I'm not seeing much in the articles that back those assertions up.
And I'm not seeing many people who are reading the articles without getting the facts mixed up. The mere fact that the ACLU is involved should give a hint that this is far from a standard criminal matter.

The Florida ACLU has spoken out on her behalf, saying this is a harmless, consensual relationship.

Teenage sex is pretty much ignored by the authorities these days. This is very much a highly unusual matter.
 
Do we have any information to suggest that this is so different from what happens in heterosexual teen relationships when the parents and/or authorities object?

Regardless of whether or not it's different I still think anything above a misdemeanor is too harsh but I'm looking at this to see if it's an example of homophobia or not.
 
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