Much Ado About Lesbian Teen Sex?

[Bamspeedy]

How exactly did the parents found out that sex happened after 18 but not before ? I couldn't find the information in the article.]

The incident took place shortly before Christmas in the school bathroom. The suspect turned 18 in august (3+months before). If the parents knew sex happened before that, there is no evidence of it. They could have been suspicious, but suspicions aren't exactly enough evidence to be required to report it to authorities.

 

[BvBPL]

As I said, I need to see the law stating that before believing it. It's just so grotesque to be taken as face value.

You want me to prove the absence of a law? Really?

Thankfully I can. Sixith paragraph.

And your vision of what is the defining point of a liberal democracy is both completely wrong and, frankly, sickening.

Well, the idea that parents should be obliged to report the sexual behavior of their children to the police doesn't exactly seem like a happy little ray of sunshine to me.

 

[DinoDoc]

Hence the difference between "illegal" and "immoral" or even "illegitimate".
Being in violation of an utterly stupid law isn't going to make people feel you're really guilty. Also, we have judges, trials and juries precisely to actually apply the law as human beings and not robots - and we expect as such that stupid laws in stupid situations shouldn't be applied with the same severity than actually good laws in serious situations.

People can and do get convicted of statutory rape in Florida.

 

[Akka]

You want me to prove the absence of a law? Really?

Thankfully I can. Sixith paragraph.

Err...

Unless I missed something rather big, the page you link actually prove you wrong, by stating that not reporting a crime IS an offense, and even give examples of it...

Well, the idea that parents should be obliged to report the sexual behavior of their children to the police doesn't exactly seem like a happy little ray of sunshine to me.

While letting people die under your eyes while you walk away laughing and without care is all bells and whistles ?

Just so you know, many countries make exception or attenuating circumstances in the law about duty to report offenses when these offenses are commited by family members.

In any case, "duty" isn't a dirty byword for "tyranny", but an actual very laudable concept meaning that we aren't completely irresponsible bastards and we are expected to a bare minimum level of decency.

People can and do get convicted of statutory rape in Florida.

And... so ?

 

[Mise]

Yes, that's right, Akka.

Not imposing a duty on people is what being a liberal democracy is all about.

I thought that in child abuse cases there is a duty to report those crimes if you are, say, a teacher, social worker, doctor, etc. I don't know about parents - I was going on what JR said earlier (though he may not have mentioned the parents at all, I don't really remember).

I see why a general duty to report is illiberal, though.

 

[BvBPL]

Err...

Unless I missed something rather big, the page you link actually prove you wrong, by stating that not reporting a crime IS an offense, and even give examples of it...

Sixith paragraph.

Almost every state has rejected the crime of misprision of felony. Thus, persons are under no duty to report a crime.

In any case, "duty" isn't a dirty byword for "tyranny", but an actual very laudable concept meaning that we aren't completely irresponsible bastards and we are expected to a bare minimum level of decency.

The US gets a long fine without having moral duty required by force of law.

I don't know about parents

Think about the consequence of such a behavior in this situation: parents would be obliged to report the sexual behavior of their children to the police.

 

[Mise]

Yes, I see why that's problematic.

 

[Akka]

Sixith paragraph.

Oh my. That's just unbelievable...

The US gets a long fine without having moral duty required by force of law.

Having four time the murder rates of more civilized neighbour is hardly "getting along fine".
And regardless, any society in which it's permissible to let someone be murdered under your eyes while you shrug and yawn away (while possibly punishing by 15 years of jail someone who had a relationship with a co-schooler) is not "going fine", unless you have extremely warped moral values.

Now excuse me, I need to vomit.

 

[Farm Boy]

I thought that in child abuse cases there is a duty to report those crimes if you are, say, a teacher, social worker, doctor, etc. I don't know about parents - I was going on what JR said earlier (though he may not have mentioned the parents at all, I don't really remember).

I see why a general duty to report is illiberal, though.

Whether the abuse is sexual or not every person in Florida is a mandatory reporter.

http://www.fcasv.org/publications/n...er-2012/florida’s-new-mandatory-reporting-law

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/sr/statelaws/statelaws.shtml#Florida

Failure to report suspected child abuse is a 3rd degree felony for anyone in Florida. Certain professions are required to submit their name with the report, other people are not.

 

[Angst]

You know better than those 82 million people. Because it was the quickest way to point out how silly this a lot of people believe something argument is.

Well, but that wasn't the argument, was it?

And again, why do you insist on inherent logic of If-Then-Therefore? You can't universalize my claims without my consent you know.

Water is wet as well. Of course these laws are arbitrary. If the argument of this thread is that Florida should have a lower age of consent, can we at least be honest about it and stop pretending to care about Ms. Hunt's situation? She's clearly in violation of the law as it stands now.

I'm not opposed to her punishment. Judicary institutions have to function as they're instructed in order to be meaningful. If what they do is wrong, don't change the punishment: First change the law, then the punishment.

My issue is with the way age of consent is handled, or that it as a function even exists. People utilize psychoanalysis and individual consideration plenty of other places in the justice system - and then in a few areas, it's continually blind and not in accord with individual needs.

So it is wrong because you say it is wrong. Compelling.

Uh, what?

EDIT: BvBPL, are you asking for sources or something? I don't want to provide for you as such (this is a bleeping internet forum) so you may choose simply not to believe me. But just take a look on an age of consent world map. The intention of the age of consent law is not arbitrary - it exists to protect children unable to consent from assault. But people learn to consent at different ages, and it's not national-genetic makeup that determines when children are legally able to consent, it's established tradition taking some psychologists and doctors into account that then settle on a random normally-teenage'd number. And lastly, most importantly, it's social consensus of the state in question that prevents change. Because lowering the age of consent is disgusting pedophilia, and raising it is prudish tries-to-be-traditionalism.

 

[Mise]

Whether the abuse is sexual or not every person in Florida is a mandatory reporter.

http://www.fcasv.org/publications/n...er-2012/florida’s-new-mandatory-reporting-law

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/sr/statelaws/statelaws.shtml#Florida

Failure to report suspected child abuse is a 3rd degree felony for anyone in Florida. Certain professions are required to submit their name with the report, other people are not.

I see, thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Formaldehyde]

Talk about a law which is rarely and arbitrarily enforced. How many students, teachers, administrators, school resource officers, and parents are guilty of violating it in just this one incident, much less the hundreds of other incidents that qualify which occur during the school year at this one high school?

Child abuse by parents, caregivers, any other adults and juvenile sex offenders should be reported to DCF’s statewide hotline.

Failure to report child abuse to DCF will be now a third degree felony (previously this was a first degree misdemeanor).

If an 18-year-old gets into an altercation with a 17-year-old in the hallway, it could result in the criminal prosecution of hundreds of people who do not report it, much less all those who engage in sexual activity.

 

[JollyRoger]

Of course, thanks to prosecutorial discretion, only the 18 year old gets prosecuted.

 

[civ_king]

Yes, that's what JR said earlier. The parents could be prosecuted if they knew of the relationship but failed to report it, depending on the reporting laws of the state. What you're saying the law ought to say is, in fact, what the current laws already say, so I'm not sure what exactly you aren't buying.

The relationship per se wasn't illegal, what was illegal and she got in trouble for was the sex which started after she turned 18.

 

[Angst]

The relationship per se wasn't illegal, what was illegal and she got in trouble for was the sex which started after she turned 18.

Wait, so they had sex before and then she turned 18 and then the minor was magically unable to consent?

What a ******** system.

 

[civ_king]

Wait, so they had sex before and then she turned 18 and then the minor was magically unable to consent?

What a ******** system.

The younger girl couldn't consent even when Ms. Hunt was 17. There is no evidence that they engaged in sex before Ms. Hunt was 18.

 

[Luckymoose]

Age of consent is one of the most ******** aspects of the law. I see 14 year old kids in sexual relationships and they know exactly what they are doing, safe sex and all. You telling me they can't consent because they aren't the magic age? Christian laws are stupid.

 

[Angst]

To be fair, the intent is less about Christianity and more about protecting kids from abuse.

The laws handle teenage relationships horribly.

When the age difference increases, the laws start to make sense.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That is true to some extent. Some Christians even used to advocate just the opposite. Middle-aged Christian men had arranged marriages with even 13-year-old girls. But attitudes radically changed during the 80s as part of the draconian criminal justice system which was implemented during the Reagan years. Part of it was due to trying to protect children. But part of it was also a backlash to the free love era prior to AIDs, so it was also a matter of current Christian morality.

Even earlier, if you got someone pregnant you got married no matter their age and whether you wanted to or not in many cases. But the use of birth control and the availability of abortions changed that, along with the realization that such marriages rarely lasted long anymore.

 

[classical_hero]

let's just do away with all form of Christian morality.

Murder, lying, stealing, nah, thy are just old fashioned.