My experience with game

[Valka D'Ur]

Thanks, but this is exactly it. Most men don't share my interests, let alone women. There definitely are women my age in my area who share some of mine, thankfully, but they're sadly hard to come by.

An interest in archery around here would (in the '90s) have resulted in an invitation to check out the Society for Creative Anachronism. Archery is a huge part of that, in most branches. Of course it's expected that some degree of interest in medieval history would come along with that.

The Office was just an example I use because I've never seen it and most women my age in my area are obsessed with it to the exclusion of most other things. It gets grating hearing a quote for the thousandth time when the speaker thinks it's witty or original.

I really am apathetic towards most things most others find interesting. Sports, music, and TV/movies dominate casual conversation and I do not care about them. Conversations about them kind of leave me out because I have nothing to say and don't care to hear what others do.

It's largely the same for me. People throw Seinfeld memes at me as though they're supposed to mean something, or post a still from Futurama. None of it means anything to me. People on TrekBBS are excited over the casting of the new Dune movie and I've never heard of 99% of the actors/actresses. "But he was in the new Star Wars movie!" is pointless to say to me as I didn't see it and don't care if I ever do.

So what do you do when you're in a conversation with someone new and it turns out you're bored with everything they have to say?

Invent an urgent appointment?

I got stuck with a hospital roommate like that. Unfortunately, I couldn't invent an urgent appointment because it was after midnight. So I just sat there and let him ramble on. It was better than listening to him scream and swear at the nurses because there was no TV in the room.

 

[Phrossack]

I mean, as carl has pointed out you can take some measures to guide the conversation to things that may be more interesting. But if I've tried a bit of that and there's still nothing interesting they have to say (and I have to mention here that I'm often as least as interested in how people say things as in what they're talking about) I just make some polite excuse and walk away. Or just walk away when their friend comes up to talk to them and their attention goes away.

I'm envisioning this in a scenario where I've approached a woman in a bar, on the street, or at a party, something like that. Not when you sit down with someone for a blind date, I have no advice for such a trap

Oh, I could never approach a woman like that. I'd have no idea how to just chat up a stranger, especially since women my age I see in public are generally with friends or boyfriends or clearly don't want to be disturbed. Not to mention that since most people don't share my interests, odds are high that a random stranger wouldn't either.

I met my last date on a dating site, so that meant she was interested and I had at least some info beforehand. But it wasn't a lot.

An interest in archery around here would (in the '90s) have resulted in an invitation to check out the Society for Creative Anachronism. Archery is a huge part of that, in most branches. Of course it's expected that some degree of interest in medieval history would come along with that.

Invent an urgent appointment?

Inventing an appointment would to me seem less honest than nodding along and making conversation when I didn't want to. I could, I suppose, say I had to take care of my dog or laundry or something.

 

[Hygro]

If you and your SO are busy enough, no Devil's work, your relationship is gonna be time-capped out first by your mutual affection, an animal thing, and then later by mutual endeavor (households, children, events, tasks, etc). Surely you will find shared entertainment in the minimal spare time you have left.

Being about how a person literally moves and what that evokes in you counts. How someone smells counts. Trust your senses, they purify your mind. If your senses are rusty crusty and dim then there's 101 ways to get your super powers/equanimity back.

 

[Lexicus]

Oh, I could never approach a woman like that. I'd have no idea how to just chat up a stranger, especially since women my age I see in public are generally with friends or boyfriends or clearly don't want to be disturbed. Not to mention that since most people don't share my interests, odds are high that a random stranger wouldn't either.

I met my last date on a dating site, so that meant she was interested and I had at least some info beforehand. But it wasn't a lot.

Well yeah, you don't go up to a woman who's wearing headphones, or flag her down if she looks like she's in a hurry. But if she makes eye contact and smiles? That's more of an invitation to say something. Obviously at a bar or party is much more acceptable/easier to talk to strangers whether they're women or not.

 

[inthesomeday]

Don’t take any pleasantry as an immediate invitation, though, especially given the situation. If a girl smiles at you in a bar or at a party where it’s the norm to mingle with new people? Most likely safe. In some kind of situation where she’s more or less forced to be in your company, like on the bus or something? Probably leave that one be.

 

[Hygro]

Just smile and maybe hello.

I started a relationship in a bus ride once. Stay present and situation specific.

 

[inthesomeday]

Right, as with anything in real life the best move is to be super situational but I think telling these guys in this thread that a smile is an invitation might be a little too general. I think as long as there is present company playing social games and lacking social skills a better base rule of thumb is “a smile can be an invitation in spaces where public interaction is expected.”

 

[caketastydelish]

I can't believe JollyRoger hasn't posted here yet.

 

[red_elk]

Treating relationships and interactions as games are actually quite poor social skills.

That depends on whether you define game as a zero-sum competition, or just an activity to enjoy life.
If you are playing a game it doesn't always mean you are trying to defeat somebody.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Don’t take any pleasantry as an immediate invitation, though, especially given the situation. If a girl smiles at you in a bar or at a party where it’s the norm to mingle with new people? Most likely safe. In some kind of situation where she’s more or less forced to be in your company, like on the bus or something? Probably leave that one be.

I don't get this mentality. so you can just never hit on someone in a bus? you do your thing, start up a conversation, and if after 30 seconds you feel she's not into it, you abandon ship. if you have any sort of empathy, and if the other person is not a complete sociopath, it should become glaringly obvious in a very short time frame whether or not this is getting somewhere.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The bolded is a thought that has literally never occurred to me until now. I'm not sure what to make of it. What makes you say more men than women are dropping out? I haven't heard of that. If anything, my assumption is that (straight) men seem to need women more than the reverse, so if some quit, the rest will happily pick up the slack.

I'm not so sure I'd be doing women a favor. It's possible I could put myself out there, get into a relationship or two that end in disaster, and have a net negative effect on happiness.

If you compare marriage rates today versus 40 years ago they're way down. Broadly speaking, fewer of either sex in the dating pool will bring the "average quality of partner" down necessarily as a matter of simple supply and demand.

Right now men are dropping out more so than women because that's how the incentives are set. Heavy majority of divorces are initiated by women, child custody is egregiously skewed, alimony/support can be downright predatory/life ruining, and "having game" to just sleep with people has its own moral issues + tangible risks (to both sexes). It's a lot of risk and potential drama, so for it to be worth it despite that a person has to really want it.

In my case though it's just the major financial and time sink involved with a serious relationship + not being interested in non-serious ones. I'm an anecdotal case, but if I were a rare one we wouldn't see the marriage rate plummet so much.

A "weekly fresh supply" of... what, exactly? What if nobody is willing to be the commodity that the OP wants to be supplied with?

Indeed, what if? The answer is that there won't be any supply.

That's the choice each person makes or doesn't make as an individual, and adults are responsible for what they choose.

Don’t take any pleasantry as an immediate invitation, though, especially given the situation. If a girl smiles at you in a bar or at a party where it’s the norm to mingle with new people? Most likely safe. In some kind of situation where she’s more or less forced to be in your company, like on the bus or something? Probably leave that one be.

I don't think that's valid. Is it not okay to just talk to someone because you're bored or it's more interesting than sitting in silence?

In most cases the conversation lasts for a short while then you part ways. I do have that one awkward story where I did this and the person I was talking to thought I was hitting on her (and essentially accepted without my knowledge). That was how I showed up to what I thought was a group gathering based on the conversation but instead turned out to be a date. But that only happened once. USUALLY when you talk to someone casually it's just that.

 

[Farm Boy]

Which is a shame. A partner really does make a lot of things in life that are unpleasant, easier. Labor sharing, cost sharing, emergency availability. Hell, I think it's just simply atomization. People don't even seem to do the platonic life-partner thing as often as they used to, be they sisters or spinsters or close male friends or whatnot.

 

[inthesomeday]

I don't get this mentality. so you can just never hit on someone in a bus? you do your thing, start up a conversation, and if after 30 seconds you feel she's not into it, you abandon ship. if you have any sort of empathy, and if the other person is not a complete sociopath, it should become glaringly obvious in a very short time frame whether or not this is getting somewhere.

I think it is a good rule of thumb to never hit on someone on the bus, yes. Literally all my friends (I have almost all female friends) hate to use public transportation because it’s effectively a male’s space and they feel deeply unsafe most of the time, in large part due to experiences with harassment from men. They feel this intensely enough that it’s something of a common topic of conversation.

As a mostly masculine presenting person who uses public transportation more or less daily, I have thus learned to never ever just approach women on the bus or the trolley because— here’s the real lesson— no matter how charming I think I may be, I can never know for certain how the other person might feel about my imposition. Of course, when girls approach me, I’m perfectly happy to interact back, and my friends have also impressed on me the importance of being aware and acting as an ally in situations where women and girls seem uncomfortable in interactions with males. Luckily I’ve never felt the need to intervene.

As I understand it, women and girls live in a sort of twisted catch 22 when it comes to these sorts of forced public spaces where they have no choice of whether to be alone or to be in the company of men. My friends have expressed this kind of constant anxiety: girls and women doing NOTHING to signal interest are often approached anyway, by entitled men who demand attention. They’ll have headphones ripped out of their ears, hands waved in their faces, and all too often they’ll even be physically grabbed or otherwise touched. Men can and will enact violence on girls they believe they are entitled to the attention of, and this does and has manifested as assault, rape, even murder. So what do you do? Ignoring men doesn’t work, and my friends often fear that itself might be what invites violence itself. But here’s the catch— the sort of token politeness that these same entitled men lament the absence of can then be taken as an invitation, like suggested above. “Why don’t women just smile more? They refuse to even look at me!” And that can breed violence in itself.

These are all feelings and experiences that women and girls around me have expressed frequently enough to convince me that I should probably never just take behavior in these public places as a given invitation, and should mind my own business until girls or women approach me. And so that’s kind of how I try to base my behavior.

 

[Farm Boy]

Look down.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If someone doesn't want to talk, it's usually pretty obvious, and it can be stated outright if necessary. The idea that basic conversation is an imposition to the point of "shouldn't attempt it" is absurd.

And I say this as a Myers-Briggs introvert.

 

[Synobun]

I think it is a good rule of thumb to never hit on someone on the bus, yes. Literally all my friends (I have almost all female friends) hate to use public transportation because it’s effectively a male’s space and they feel deeply unsafe most of the time, in large part due to experiences with harassment from men. They feel this intensely enough that it’s something of a common topic of conversation.

As a mostly masculine presenting person who uses public transportation more or less daily, I have thus learned to never ever just approach women on the bus or the trolley because— here’s the real lesson— no matter how charming I think I may be, I can never know for certain how the other person might feel about my imposition. Of course, when girls approach me, I’m perfectly happy to interact back, and my friends have also impressed on me the importance of being aware and acting as an ally in situations where women and girls seem uncomfortable in interactions with males. Luckily I’ve never felt the need to intervene.

As I understand it, women and girls live in a sort of twisted catch 22 when it comes to these sorts of forced public spaces where they have no choice of whether to be alone or to be in the company of men. My friends have expressed this kind of constant anxiety: girls and women doing NOTHING to signal interest are often approached anyway, by entitled men who demand attention. They’ll have headphones ripped out of their ears, hands waved in their faces, and all too often they’ll even be physically grabbed or otherwise touched. Men can and will enact violence on girls they believe they are entitled to the attention of, and this does and has manifested as assault, rape, even murder. So what do you do? Ignoring men doesn’t work, and my friends often fear that itself might be what invites violence itself. But here’s the catch— the sort of token politeness that these same entitled men lament the absence of can then be taken as an invitation, like suggested above. “Why don’t women just smile more? They refuse to even look at me!” And that can breed violence in itself.

These are all feelings and experiences that women and girls around me have expressed frequently enough to convince me that I should probably never just take behavior in these public places as a given invitation, and should mind my own business until girls or women approach me. And so that’s kind of how I try to base my behavior.

This is too deep, chief. Nobody is saying you should corner a woman and force them, through the sheer inertia of societal patriarchy, to cater to your deep dark male fantasies that are for some reason king on public transit.

Don't touch them, don't force them to interact, don't chase them. It's really rather simple. In this case the game analogy actually does work. You hit the ball to their side of the court and then wait and see if they hit it back. If not, move on. A smile or a quick answer to your question isn't an invitation to start charming, but if they actively go out of their way to engage you further, it is.

Key phrase being "if they actively go out of their way to engage you further". You asking how they are and them saying "I'm well" isn't an adequate enough transition into further commitment. There is nothing inappropriate about trying to engage a woman in public until you take their rejection or token politeness as indication to escalate. But that's a you problem and not an interacting-in-public problem.

 

[MaryKB]

I love your sincerity Syn, but the problem is most men are exceptionally poor judges of women's interest and don't seem to know where to stop.

 

[Senethro]

Right now men are dropping out more so than women because that's how the incentives are set. Heavy majority of divorces are initiated by women, child custody is egregiously skewed, alimony/support can be downright predatory/life ruining, and "having game" to just sleep with people has its own moral issues + tangible risks (to both sexes). It's a lot of risk and potential drama, so for it to be worth it despite that a person has to really want it.

Out of interest, how do we know men are dropping out and how do we know the cause?

 

[Synobun]

I love your sincerity Syn, but the problem is most men are exceptionally poor judges of women's interest and don't seem to know where to stop.

I, or inthesomeday, can't make up for the sins of neanderthalic men. Social isolation doesn't appear to be a realistic or helpful response in the face of there being other hostile actors who share basic anatomy with us.

What we can do is act respectfully, which is essentially what you should do anyways, really. You make an innocuous approach and you let the other person decide whether or not to bridge the gap. I don't see how segregating women from daily society is a solution. Putting the burden of social contact and engagement entirely on the shoulders of women doesn't seem, to me, to have any logical impact on whether or not a hostile man will respect you.

 

[Farm Boy]

Will continuing to look down improve the empathy or skill of well intended actors, or will it further disease a vast swath of human interaction?