My experience with game

[Farm Boy]

Ah. I retract. This reads way less fun if I change the tone on everything.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I said that I don't trust you. And you blamed me in lying about my implications.

What reason has Mary given for you not trusting her? Did she break a promise she made to you? Did she cheat you of something you think you should have? Did she do something illegal and you're afraid she'll do it again?

I suspect the answer to all of those is "no." So that just leaves you implying that she's not being truthful about her own life because you don't like what she's saying.

 

[red_elk]

What reason has Mary given for you not trusting her?

A number of derogatory statements about "men" on this forum, mostly.

 

[riddleofsteel]

https://jezebel.com/michelle-carter-is-going-to-prison-1832558335

And she's only going to serve 15 months.

 

[riddleofsteel]

You have it in your sidebar information: "Gender: Male"

If that's not accurate, you should go into your profile and change it.


What does her income have to do with it? Are higher-income people somehow immune from being oppressed/bullied/harassed?


Pay attention to some of her posts in which she describes some of the events in her life that have to do with male relatives and an ex-boyfriend. These are the sorts of experiences that tend to influence how a person is apt to view certain demographics.

And why would you assume she didn't get where she is by her own abilities? Given her life experiences, I wouldn't expect her to take the sordid sort of shortcut you're implying.

I know. Hence the wink.

Re: income. I think it offers protection from various forms of oppression. It wasn't my intent to imply immunity from all. But if you can attain a high level job by just your abilities whether or not you have a degree, you are at least not oppressed in the sense that many women have been in the past.

Re: life experiences. How is that different from any of the things I experienced growing up? Only I don't treat women differently as a result, I just don't show bias based on gender. And I don't talk down to them in sweeping blanket statements as I've seen done to men here.

 

[Synobun]

Is there a point to sharing that story?

 

[riddleofsteel]

Is there a point to sharing that story?

Is it really that mysterious? I think the argument can be made that it's too lenient of a sentence, and if the roles were reversed her boyfriend would get a steeper sentence. I'm not saying that's the case, even if it does seem too light for bullying someone into killing themselves. It also doesn't mean that doesn't happen.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

But if you can attain a high level job by just your abilities whether or not you have a degree, you are at least not oppressed in the sense that many women have been in the past.

You haven't been paying attention to the rest of what's been said.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Is it really that mysterious? I think the argument can be made that it's too lenient of a sentence, and if the roles were reversed her boyfriend would get a steeper sentence. I'm not saying that's the case, even if it does seem too light for bullying someone into killing themselves. It also doesn't mean that doesn't happen.

Global sentencing between men and women is very different. More so than race-based differences, despite that it's the race-based ones that get most of the attention.

Whatever interpretations there are to take away from that, it certainly suggests that "equality" isn't the true goal of this narrative.

 

[inthesomeday]

Out of curiosity— what do you think is the “goal” of our nefarious narrative? A matriarchal new world order?

 

[Synobun]

Is it really that mysterious? I think the argument can be made that it's too lenient of a sentence, and if the roles were reversed her boyfriend would get a steeper sentence. I'm not saying that's the case, even if it does seem too light for bullying someone into killing themselves. It also doesn't mean that doesn't happen.

I still don't get the point. At least, linking to that story without commentary doesn't match up with the "I am a free thinker, released from the shackles of politics" narrative.

Mostly, there doesn't seem to be much substance to a counterargument (why there needs to be a counterargument is questionable to begin with) if you have to cherry pick case studies that suggest imbalance in sentencing. While that's pretty bad, it seems a bit deaf to the big picture. "Women go to jail for less time than men for heinous crimes" isn't much of a point, or a counterargument, when the discussion is about discriminatory practices against women, who for most of human history were treated as chattel instead of individuals.

You can certainly argue for equality in sentencing, but I don't understand why this needs to come alongside an anti-feminist agenda.

(This is also ignoring that sentencing terms are rarely determined by women, and you may want to have a think on why women are punished less severely. A few minutes on that task may lead you to the realization that societal perspectives on women and their place in violent/immoral behaviour are largely based on a man's perspective, i.e. that a woman is less capable, less equivalent to a man.)

It is easy to sentence a woman to less time than a man when many people today still see a woman as "just" a woman. It's still a widely held belief that women are soft, delicate, and more pure (from a moral sense) than men. Subtle and subconscious biases affect how we treat people, especially when there are deep stereotypes involved. Some take this to an extreme (wherein you see women portrayed as succubi, witches, hellcats, etc) while others take it the other way (wherein you see sympathy and pity because you can't punish a woman as harshly as a man). Either one is a harmful perception, and either one comes with problematic implications in the long term for women. They are always seen in contrast to men, either weaker or as irreparably corrupted. A woman is rarely an individual, not in the true sense, and they are often reduced to whatever perspective a man has on women as a concept.

But somehow this translates to a nefarious women's plot against men for you. I don't really get it.

 

[MaryKB]

It's just more women-hating, he wants to see a mentally ill non-violent fifteen year old (when her boyfriend finally committed suicide) punished really severely. She did something horrible: after her depression medication was changed, she stopped talking her boyfriend out of killing himself and instead encouraged him to go through with it, it's not like she did something minor like rape.

Thank you for your post @Synsensa, something these guys just refuse to understand is anything they think is sexism against men is really sexism against women, they're just not willing to think except from their own points of view.

 

[Phrossack]

Is it really woman-hating to want someone punished for deliberately driving someone to suicide? I think she got off lightly given the awful thing she did.

 

[inthesomeday]

“The patriarchy imposed masculinity as the end-all be-all of strength and power.”

“Well, in society men are seen as more strong and powerful. Checkmate ********s”

 

[MaryKB]

Is it really woman-hating to want someone punished for deliberately driving someone to suicide? I think she got off lightly given the awful thing she did.

It's more about taking pleasure in seeing a woman punished. Also, she needs psychiatric help, time in prison isn't going to help her. She didn't drive him to suicide, he had multiple suicide attempts before he met her (as did she), and she had been repeatedly talking him out of it before her medicine was changed and she then encouraged him to do it.

 

[Synobun]

There is a reason why mental health meds all have explicit warnings about sudden changes in behaviour.

They can help... or they can make things exceptionally worse, especially if you have non-standard reactions to hormone changes.

At any rate, prison for mental health-related transgressions is woefully unhelpful. The proper response would be to want equal rehabilitation instead of increased sentencing.

 

[Phrossack]

It's more about taking pleasure in seeing a woman punished. Also, she needs psychiatric help, time in prison isn't going to help her. She didn't drive him to suicide, he had multiple suicide attempts before he met her (as did she), and she had been repeatedly talking him out of it before her medicine was changed and she then encouraged him to do it.

If the genders were switched, would wanting the guy punished be man-hating? Or are men fair game for enjoying seeing punished?

I agree that lenient sentences for women for the same crime are not a plot against men, but male sexism towards women in seeing them as weaker and less threatening. If we are to ever reach equality, people must face the same consequences for the same crimes regardless of their sex, class, or race, don't you think?

 

[Synobun]

Sure. So why is the desire increased punishment instead of something more humane?

 

[Phrossack]

There is a reason why mental health meds all have explicit warnings about sudden changes in behaviour.

They can help... or they can make things exceptionally worse, especially if you have non-standard reactions to hormone changes.

At any rate, prison for mental health-related transgressions is woefully unhelpful. The proper response would be to want equal rehabilitation instead of increased sentencing.

It's fine to say rehabilitation is better than punishment. But it's not okay to accuse someone of hating women just because he'd like to see equal sentencing. Am I an evil woman-hater for wanting equal sentencing?

 

[Synobun]

It's fine to say rehabilitation is better than punishment. But it's not okay to accuse someone of hating women just because he'd like to see equal sentencing. Am I an evil woman-hater for wanting equal sentencing?

I mean, a quick looksie at the user's other posts would seem to suggest a general slant towards being anti-women. It's not a random personal attack.