In the Izzy game that you were helping me with I declared war with an army of Cuirassiers in 760 AD. And realistically I think I could have done it considerably earlier maybe 500 AD with more optimal play. Anything after 1000 AD is late for a Cuirassier rush IMO. However, this map is tougher diplomatically and in my game for instance I had to research Feudalism because both Joao and Charlie were plotting and I was probably their target being so weak and them Cautious and Annoyed with me, respectively.
[BTS] My First Immortal Game with Hannibal
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In the Izzy game that you were helping me with I declared war with an army of Cuirassiers in 760 AD. And realistically I think I could have done it considerably earlier maybe 500 AD with more optimal play. Anything after 1000 AD is late for a Cuirassier rush IMO. However, this map is tougher diplomatically and in my game for instance I had to research Feudalism because both Joao and Charlie were plotting and I was probably their target being so weak and them Cautious and Annoyed with me, respectively.
CGQ
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I think astro would've been a bad idea. Only three AIs unmet and if you've seen a lot of GGs born they will be very backwards. I think the Lib-line was best, doesn't matter much if you go Nat or Edu first - you do nothing with either of them. You don't have horses, but can you get them? Yes, you can, and I would certainly go for cuirs. Looking at the <F4>-screen your trading game could be improved quite a bit. No need to have the capitalsince you can get clam in trade. Horse is so expensive I wouldn't buy it now, only when you are 1T away from libbing MT. I think once you have MT the price goes up.
- Oxford: I never build it. Way way too expensive (not the Ox itself, but the 6 universities), only for space games, or perhaps in isolation games (or with PHI leader). I think the main issue is that at that stage of the game many things (like cuirs) pay back so much better
- forges: I rarely build if going for cuirs. Many like them, but I think it's not a big deal either way. I just rather start the war asap even if forges would pay back nicely in the long run. Once you are in caste+paci, you no longer have a choice to build them
- music: I wouldn't usually go for the aesth-line without marble. Unlucky here that it seems you get nothing via trade
- cuirs: 1300-1400AD attack is very late. I think you are heading for 1000AD cuirs here, a lot better. On deity it's a bit faster due to trades
Not bad. I think mistakes were made earlier (not enough workers, not enough cottages, not enough growth) but you shouldn't worry about it now.
Yep, this is why on fractal you should nearly always have a scouting work boat out at some point. Or even a 2-mover scouting by the coast to see if there is need to scout the possible islands. Maybe even build the wb now in Thapsus, as Asoka is likely behind deGaulle.
Thoughts on current position
- stop building workshops. They are awful and will be awful for a long time. Your workers still have things to do, like chop the jungle under ivory, cottage Utica (plains river tiles), improve gems that you claim next turn and so on
- take spices and clam via trade
- next GS can bulb liberalism if you get compass, hopefully via trade. Next
should be merchants, scientists are worse post-liberalism
- city management (some screenshots)
Spoiler :
). I'd have built monasteries, their bang for buck is 
for +10% vs. 150
until you spawn the GS. By then you should have some more cottages built.Spoiler To Turn 150 :
Golden age with the GS was probably smart, but for me it's hard to see the merits of cannons when compared to cuirs. Also, tech path seems very unfocused. Why music? I'd go Nat trying to get it via trade from Joao before your GA ends so you can switch to nationhood for free. Drafting is exactly what you need now IMO (ah, you just switched to slavery+theo...). It's possible that Monty is not going for you (Joao is also a land target), but if he declared on you right now it looks like gg to me.
CGQ
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Aztecs are a problem no matter how you look at it and DG peace vassal does not help much. Monty's problem is that, though he is often behind in Mil tech, he builds so many units. Usually the way I handle him is that I build a good stack of cannons and support - here draft muskies and maybe build a couple of pikes. DOW and let his stack come to you and clobber it with cannons and mop up. I small force on that narrow border with France should keep DG occupied until he breaks free from Monty. With enough kills you can probably cap DG soon after. Once you eliminate Monty's main force it should be fairly smooth sailing. He will try to bypass your stack at times - even sending single HAs to annoy you, so you need to your borders with a couple of units to keep safe. Your borders here are really not very broad so should be easy to defend from stragglers.
Another issue is AP. (I think Joao owns it?) So you have to work around the timer and be prepare to move fast. If you can't cap Monty in the 10 turns, which is likely, you may have to ceasefire the turn before vote. Do not let the vote occur while you are still at war as it will result in a Peace Treaty, regardless of if you ceasefire the turn of vote. Ofc, you could defy but that can be catastrophic.
My war focus right now would be on Monty simply as a) he may declare on you anyway b) he will become more and more of an issue as he advances. Right now he his units are significantly weaker than yours - he simply has a lot more. Cannons will make short work of him though.
Another issue is AP. (I think Joao owns it?) So you have to work around the timer and be prepare to move fast. If you can't cap Monty in the 10 turns, which is likely, you may have to ceasefire the turn before vote. Do not let the vote occur while you are still at war as it will result in a Peace Treaty, regardless of if you ceasefire the turn of vote. Ofc, you could defy but that can be catastrophic.
My war focus right now would be on Monty simply as a) he may declare on you anyway b) he will become more and more of an issue as he advances. Right now he his units are significantly weaker than yours - he simply has a lot more. Cannons will make short work of him though.
I'd say Joao is your only ally so I wouldn't go that way. Agree with lymond, Monty is the natural target. One thing you should do is to locate his stack and try to destroy it in the first turns of war. With CR cannons you can lure him into the city, with cuirs you'd need to lure him into the open.
CGQ
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CGQ
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Never ever do what you did to your capital ..ever. Carthage can slow build cannons with Bureau. I think your problem goes probably back to 350AD save and some decisions you made later, like the golden age and maybe teching some odd things. I'm really not sure as I have not followed all the details. Again, I'd let Monty come to you and wipe is stack out on some flat land, heal, then start taking him out. Monty just slams all his old units into you. You want to be in a position to hit him first. Personally I don't like drafting Muskets, but I think you had enough production here to produce what you needed without absolutely crippling yourself.. It is not supposed to work that way.
Not sure I totally agree with the sacrificial city idea. There are other ways to lure units and take them out in the field. Most of your land is flat down there.
When I have time I might play your 350AD save.
Not sure I totally agree with the sacrificial city idea. There are other ways to lure units and take them out in the field. Most of your land is flat down there.
When I have time I might play your 350AD save.
Just looked at your 800 AD and 1270 AD saves.
Re: 800 AD
Not having Lighthouses in Hippo and Thapsus hurts these cities' growth. Workshops also kind of suck without Caste and State Property especially in Utica which is starved for food. But still aside from what Lymond and sampsa pointed out, you are in a fantastic position here all things considered. 800 AD Cannons with 7 cities should be a win.
Re: 1270 AD
Your cities are lacking Barracks. For an Axerush, that's understandable but not this late. Not to mention Barracks give +2 happy with Nationhood and your economy would not have suffered nearly as much with it. You're basically making units with 1 promo (thanks to Theocracy and not even in all cities) compared to Monty's units which have 2-3 promos out of the gate. It puts you at a serious disadvantage. For instance his Combat 3 Elephants are monsters against your virgin or Combat 1 Muskets.
Another thing is using defensive terrain. You should attack Teotihuacan from the NE first step on the jungle than the hill next to the city. The +25% defensive bonus should not be underestimated. Your Musketman go from sitting ducks to the enemy having long odds of killing them.
Also, you built only 17 Cannons which is very little if you want the war to go smoothly. You needed many more Cannons at the beginning of the war. Maybe 20 to start the war and build more. If you're doing it right, it's mostly the Cannons you will replace because after they soften the enemy, Swords could finish them off to be honest.
Re: 800 AD
Not having Lighthouses in Hippo and Thapsus hurts these cities' growth. Workshops also kind of suck without Caste and State Property especially in Utica which is starved for food. But still aside from what Lymond and sampsa pointed out, you are in a fantastic position here all things considered. 800 AD Cannons with 7 cities should be a win.
Re: 1270 AD
Your cities are lacking Barracks. For an Axerush, that's understandable but not this late. Not to mention Barracks give +2 happy with Nationhood and your economy would not have suffered nearly as much with it. You're basically making units with 1 promo (thanks to Theocracy and not even in all cities) compared to Monty's units which have 2-3 promos out of the gate. It puts you at a serious disadvantage. For instance his Combat 3 Elephants are monsters against your virgin or Combat 1 Muskets.
Another thing is using defensive terrain. You should attack Teotihuacan from the NE first step on the jungle than the hill next to the city. The +25% defensive bonus should not be underestimated. Your Musketman go from sitting ducks to the enemy having long odds of killing them.
Also, you built only 17 Cannons which is very little if you want the war to go smoothly. You needed many more Cannons at the beginning of the war. Maybe 20 to start the war and build more. If you're doing it right, it's mostly the Cannons you will replace because after they soften the enemy, Swords could finish them off to be honest.
CGQ
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Just looked at your 800 AD and 1270 AD saves.
Re: 800 AD
Not having Lighthouses in Hippo and Thapsus hurts these cities' growth. Workshops also kind of suck without Caste and State Property especially in Utica which is starved for food. But still aside from what Lymond and sampsa pointed out, you are in a fantastic position here all things considered. 800 AD Cannons with 7 cities should be a win.
Re: 1270 AD
Your cities are lacking Barracks. For an Axerush, that's understandable but not this late. Not to mention Barracks give +2 happy with Nationhood and your economy would not have suffered nearly as much with it. You're basically making units with 1 promo (thanks to Theocracy and not even in all cities) compared to Monty's units which have 2-3 promos out of the gate. It puts you at a serious disadvantage. For instance his Combat 3 Elephants are monsters against your virgin or Combat 1 Muskets.
Another thing is using defensive terrain. You should attack Teotihuacan from the NE first step on the jungle than the hill next to the city. The +25% defensive bonus should not be underestimated. Your Musketman go from sitting ducks to the enemy having long odds of killing them.
Also, you built only 17 Cannons which is very little if you want the war to go smoothly. You needed many more Cannons at the beginning of the war. Maybe 20 to start the war and build more. If you're doing it right, it's mostly the Cannons you will replace because after they soften the enemy, Swords could finish them off to be honest.
How many turns should it take to build that many? How do I know when to start building units and when to declare?
It depends how many turns but with Steel in 800 AD you should have a very long window so you shouldn't have been in a huge rush to attack. Taking 20-30 turns to build a stack is ok! Try replaying from 800 AD but build a Barracks in every city, use defensive terrain more, and start the invasion with 20 Cannons. It will make a big difference.
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I would replay from more like 350AD or sooner. I'm really baffled by some cities here like the jungle still on that ivory at the time, while workers are off building - at the time - workshops. You need to tighten up your worker management and city management.
I think you lost focus around the early ADs. Your Edu date was not bad but not sure if you could have also produced more great people early on.
No, barracks are not essential buildings at all. I might build barracks in strong cities that I know while produce a lot of units but they are by no means essential.
Try a little trick in the lead up to Lib>Steel of queuing up Trebs in all your cities and then have them convert to Cannons. Meanwhile having start support units along the way like Muskies/Pikes and whip into them.
I think you lost focus around the early ADs. Your Edu date was not bad but not sure if you could have also produced more great people early on.
No, barracks are not essential buildings at all. I might build barracks in strong cities that I know while produce a lot of units but they are by no means essential.
Try a little trick in the lead up to Lib>Steel of queuing up Trebs in all your cities and then have them convert to Cannons. Meanwhile having start support units along the way like Muskies/Pikes and whip into them.
Fippy
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You really should absorb the advice Lymond gave about your cap..ruining your carefully cottaged and built up Bur. (and Fin) cap like that suggests you still struggle with some keyparts of this game.
Turns to build your army or when you should build units will
once you value other things correctly, they are actually auto-answered with "as quick as possible" almost everytime. Why do i think it's so connected, well if you value your cap for reasons like "okay i get more than 50% of my research from here" you should also see why other cities can be whipped and whipped (and whipped some more) for units meanwhile, but you will still do okay on beakers etc.
Turns to build your army or when you should build units will
once you value other things correctly, they are actually auto-answered with "as quick as possible" almost everytime. Why do i think it's so connected, well if you value your cap for reasons like "okay i get more than 50% of my research from here" you should also see why other cities can be whipped and whipped (and whipped some more) for units meanwhile, but you will still do okay on beakers etc.What Lymond said but I would definitely build Barracks in any city that's gonna make any significant number of units. It's a 50 hammer building that also double serves as a happiness building (+2 ) if you run Nationhood. Basically gives you one free draftee.
EDIT: Just remembered!
One potentially unavoidable issue in this game is that attacking Monty (and DG) could easily result in a DOW from Charlie who is Annoyed with you and is actually even higher on the power graph than Monty. That's a situation that is very difficult to handle.
A safer move diplomatically would have been to keep Monty at Pleased at all costs and invade Charlie who is a pariah on the continent. In my game, I was planning to invade Charlie.
) if you run Nationhood. Basically gives you one free draftee.EDIT: Just remembered!
One potentially unavoidable issue in this game is that attacking Monty (and DG) could easily result in a DOW from Charlie who is Annoyed with you and is actually even higher on the power graph than Monty. That's a situation that is very difficult to handle.
A safer move diplomatically would have been to keep Monty at Pleased at all costs and invade Charlie who is a pariah on the continent. In my game, I was planning to invade Charlie.
Last edited:
CGQ
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What Lymond said but I would definitely build Barracks in any city that's gonna make any significant number of units. It's a 50 hammer building that also double serves as a happiness building (+2
EDIT: Just remembered!
One potentially unavoidable issue in this game is that attacking Monty (and DG) could easily result in a DOW from Charlie who is Annoyed with you and is actually even higher on the power graph than Monty. That's a situation that is very difficult to handle.
A safer move diplomatically would have been to keep Monty at Pleased at all costs and invade Charlie who is a pariah on the continent. In my game, I was planning to invade Charlie.
Spoiler 940 AD :
Then again, I wanted Monty to succeed so my conquests would be rid of Charlie's culture. Charlie had a lot of units in capital Aachen and the fighting was insane. 2 GG's for Charlie and 1 GG for Monty during the siege!
