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NCSG IV Redux - The Mummy Strikes Back

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by grandad1982, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
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    2,552
    Oh can we bring cake? Or axes? With pretty wrapping paper of course.
     
  2. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    419
    Apologies, but I need to quit this one. School's starting to pick up, and it doesn't help that FFH is just too addicting, and with the new patch, I can't stay away. Hope you guys do well.
     
  3. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    Sorry to hear that Krick, :(

    On a positive note I think I can actually play now! Not on my laptop, as I need to order a new hard drive :mad: but I managed to get civ up and running on my dusty old desktop and seems to be running okay if a little slow... So after a big delay

    "Got It" :rolleyes:

    I'll wait until tommorrow to play, looking at the next 20 turns...

    Pyramids are in in 11 turns and thebes will grow unhappy in 11 so I guess a switch to rep to let the capital grow is in order, I feel after the mids we could really do with pumping out a few units to keep up our power rating a bit and also help deal with that barb city... do we want a settler soon to replace the barb city? or can that wait for the next set.

    Tech wise I'm little lost where we want to head after maths (due in 14) are we dropping the religious path now? heading towards civil service instead? :confused:

    Cheers

    :)
     
  4. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    :mad:

    After all this messing around, I'm going to have to skip! Sincerest apologies team. My stupid desktop won't open the save now or civ, was working fine yesterday! :(

    Civ starts to load, then dissapears, no sign of civ running at all but I can hear the title music playing :crazyeye: I shouldn't have tried using this old piece of junk :mad: so I'm sorry for wasting time and stalling the game.

    My new hard drive is delayed so its very possible I won't be back in the game until tues/wed next week :sad: so next player please pick the game up.

    The roster:
    GatlingGun
    Bleys > Just Played
    Groogaroo - computer dead
    Krick19 - Gone but not forgotten
    S.ilver > Up
    grandad1982 > On Deck

    I miss playing civ :cry:
     
  5. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Got it. Sorry about the lack of my contributions to discussions this past week, it's been a bit busy.

    I like the plan Bleys proposes, but that may set us back on the religious front. I do agree that if we get the Mids (should no problem right?), GL is a no brainer and we need to head in that direction after Maths and Iron.

    Not sure if we want to bite the bullet for archery. I'm feeling a bit insecure with our best defensive unit being the warrior, but I suppose our uber chariots can pick up the slack with proactive defense if we somehow get invaded before Asoka.

    I'll get to work on making our push west. Gold city probably a bit more pressing than Silver city. Either or is good though as calendar is a bit far still, and we need happy resources in a bad way.
     
  6. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,552
    I guess we could ditch the plans for an early RE. Getting set up and secure is more important. We can probalby get the late RE wonders and still found a religion for the income. We'd just have to take the AP off the builder. Kind of inline with the aggessive nature of resurected Evil God Kings!

    Maths > Iron > Archey seems like a nice path to me. By the time we get to archery it will be pretty quike to tech. Also heading to the GLib starts us off on the religious route anyway. We should consider getting a GProth or two born (nice to settle and bulb with).

    Rep should cover most of our happieness issues ATM.

    So. Go west young man!
     
  7. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    1000BC (120):

    Preflight check. As always, the empire is in good shape after Bleys has been at the helm. One thing that confuses me is a library going at Helio, which has lousy commerce, but I assume we are fighting a culture battle with Joao.

    Thebes is indeed at the happy cap, but only for 5 turns until they stop being pissed at getting whipped. Once that's over, we can support mining another hill or running a spec and break even at zero food change.

    I assume I am allowed to whip liberally (or at least when it makes sense, lol), so I'll do my best there. PLEASE criticize me over this if I mess something up when it comes to whipping, as I'm fairly weak in that area.

    I note our demographics are fairly terrible, except in the realms of food and manufacturing (moreso food). And our power is second last to Asoka, and the person with the biggest army is to our north (scary).

    The cities look fine; I'll probably whip Memphis in 2 turns so it grows just as I kill pop (as I recall Bleys saying something about that).

    Bleys also wasn't kidding when he said we need more workers. Lots to get done around Helio and Elephantine, and one more mine needed at Thebes, so will work on that.

    I note the awful rounding discrepancy in civ again (or is it truncation?). One gold is seemingly disappearing into nowhere at the moment while running at 40%. Our total incoming commerce does appear to be 34 (when switched to 100% in either direction), so a 50% slider will save our gold from the black hole of truncation! Micromanagement for the insane! Maths down to 11 turns from 13.

    975BC (121):

    A quiet turn, with me only moving a worker one square to begin a mine next turn. Oh, and managing our random war chariots.

    950BC (122):

    We get a religion spread in Confucianism coming to Thebes. That presents us minor difficulties because no one is running Confucianism! Oh well, we get an extra culture point in Thebes.

    Memphis takes a 2 pop whip to finish the library as it is about to grow. Of course, this screws up the math on the truncation again, so I set it back down to 40% so we don't bleed. 1 commerce is missing in action, but I don't feel like a headache today.

    925BC (123):

    Mansa adopts Organized Religion. I could hope that it will cost him more maintenance, but with him being financial, I doubt it matters.

    The library is done in Memphis and 32 hammers overflow. We could go with a bunch of stuff here, but I opt for a worker, because we need one! I shunt us back to 50% commerce to take advantage of the extra beaker that Memphis now produces. Whooo!

    900BC (124):

    Libyan has 3 barb archers in it. Our combat chariots have fairly good odds, so I'll bring them out to eat one in preparation for getting settlers out here.

    Oh and we were mysteriously losing 1gpt, until I figured out that we had finished demolishing the cottage at Helio.

    875BC (125):

    Helio worker will build a mine for us on the forested plains hill, in order to keep an even amount of food.

    Also, Asoka has got a border pop in the city near our gold site, so we'll have to hurry up and get out there.

    Alexandria grew this turn, so I viciously whip the monument. Back to growth in 11.

    850BC (126):

    Sury converts to Islam and we get Buddhism in Elephantine. So for now, Asoka and Fred form the Buddhist block, while Manny and Sury are Muslim.

    I attack and kill the top archer (CG1) in Libyan and kill him with the C2 chariot. We are heavily wounded though, so get cover from the C1 chariot.

    I start mining the Helio hill and we dial a 78 turn granary in Alexandria. The mine on the copper finished here this turn, and we can either have 10 turns of growth, or finish the granary in 13 turns with no growth. Seeing as we have precious little food in this city for now, I'll go for the 13 turn granary to get it up faster so we store food sooner.

    825BC (127):

    Nothing much happens this turn, except that I give the victorious chariot C3, and move him and his guard back out of barbarian territory to heal.

    I ALSO finally notice that we have OB with Asoka, so send another chariot INTO his borders to explore. Doh!

    Oh, we finished the mine at Thebes this turn, so move over to it from the non-river mine for an extra gpt. lol

    800BC (128):

    I think Helio grew last turn and I forgot to whip it. The whip is still 2 pop, so go for it, as we need to hurry up and get a barracks here for shiny axes (and chariots).

    We locate Bombay, which is the Confucian Holy city. I notice NO ROADS in Asoka's territory despite a pastured cow which is not on a river. He lacks the wheel?

    775BC (129):

    Helio is done the library, so dial up a barracks.

    Also noticed that Helio's border popped, I think last turn, and that I can exchange a hammer for commerce and get the granary done faster, which is critical thanks to the slow growth of this city.

    750BC (130):

    Worker done at Memphis. Growth in 3, whip anger disappearing in 7, with 1 happy to go for now. Dial up a barracks for now, as we have nothing economic to put in this place, and I'll want to run specs here next turn. The worker heads south to help out there.

    725BC (131):

    Shiny...



    We start on the Quarry at Alexandria, as we have finished mining and roading the copper. Workers from up north will help complete the road.

    Disappointingly, we find Delhi, but it is only the home of Stonehenge. Somehow, the top 5 cities screen rates it as better than Thebes, even though we have 2 wonders and the same population.

    With the Mids done in Thebes, and just having grown to our happy cap, we dial a 7 turn settler in Thebes. We are stagnant anyways from working mines.

    Immediately revolt to Rep, but not running a Memphis spec yet, as we have 2 turns to growth, a large happy cap to fill, and food to do so.

    Asoka is sending a wagon train of Missionaries to our lands.



    Thanks for spending your hammers wisely Asoka!

    700BC (132):

    Maths comes in and we go Classical!



    I am convinced that Asoka does not have the Wheel, as I see no roads at all in his territory.

    IW is a cool 24 turns, so we dial it up. Expect that to drop as I find room for specs.

    675BC (133):

    The missionaries seem to just be walking through our lands. Aww...

    I also noticed that we are somehow in second place, just 7 points behind Asoka.

    Memphis grew this turn, and hiring a scientist drops us from 21 turns to 14. Yay. Growth still due in 6 turns.

    650BC (134):

    Fred attacks and kills one of the two remaining archers in Libyan. He can probably take out the city next turn, and Asoka has an archer kicking around as well, so I attack the city with the C3 chariot and raze it.



    Also notice some barb archer incoming from the city to our south, so recall a chariot to deal with it.

    I finally remember to check the trade relations screen, and lots of nice stuff pops up.



    Asoka does indeed lack the Wheel. I decide to try and backfill...




    I dial up Aesthetics.

    625BC (135):

    There is a slave revolt in Kyoto. I guffaw at Toku.

    More backfilling now that a few more techs are available.




    Mono is still up for grabs, but that enables nothing that we want for a while.

    The copper is now hooked up to the empire, and we'll commence axemaking soon.

    600BC (136):

    Sury comes begging for Alphabet. He is last in points and Toku and now even FRED hate him. I tell him to scram.

    Joao goes Buddhist. At some point in the past, Fred went Islam as well.

    Asoka is still spamming missionaries. Some Confucian ones now.

    I get around to whipping the granary in Elephantine now that is has enough pop.

    Oh, and our chop/mine finished at Helio this turn, so barracks due next turn and the city will concentrate on Axes.

    575BC (137):

    Barracks done at Helio, dial up an axe. We also grew, so we can actually work that mine we just finished.

    Elephantine finishes the granary, and I'm at a loss of what to build here. This place is hammer poor unless we steal a mine from Thebes. We have 2 hammers per turn, so I go for a slow library for now, as we at least have a bit of food here to run specs and crack the whip. Going to move some workers over to make farms here.

    550BC (138):

    Asoka Confuses Alexandria for us.

    Our settler finished in Thebes, and we dial up an axeman, as we have a barracks in this place already.

    525BC (139):

    Memphis grows and we hire another scientist. Aesthetics in 13.

    Our granary is finally done in Alexandria, so I can switch back to the oasis! Not sure what to build, but this city does have some production potential (not a ton of food though), so dial up a barracks.

    500BC (140):

    Oracle was BIAFL this turn. By who? No idea, but Taoism was FIADL too. So you know they took Theo.

    Our marble is hooked up in 3 turns, and we can found our gold city in 3 turns as well. We are currently first in points, and Thebes can crank out Hanging Gardens in 9 turns if we had any interest in going for that at all.

    Due to unexpectedly getting IW early, we don't have any workers chopping out Memphis yet, as they are still doing other stuff. But there are two workers close to that area that can move in.

    On the Iron front itself, we have some tough choices to make...



    One is in the tundra and the other is in a desert belt with no good land around it. A forest belt is to the north, but Toku is close by.

    We are running at 50% sci and our GNP is now first, so I think it's safe to say that we can REX a bit more. I built no military, but 2 axes are about to finish in Thebes and Helio. Helio should go perma military for a while, and Thebes can push out some settlers.

    Now that I think about it, the Barracks build going at Memphis is complete and utter :smoke: on my part. Should've dialed up a slow aqueduct instead, sorry guys.

    Aesthetics finishes in 11 and Lit is 13 turns after. Poly already secured, so no sweating that. Only problem is we need a library in Thebes before we can do that, and lots of stuff is competing for Thebes' massive production right now. Not sure if going for Parth to abuse the specs is greedy or not, or if it's doable.

    BTW, we are still up Maths on Joao and Toku. Toku probably will never trade, but if Joao ever gets anything good, we have leverage.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,552
    Ok got it. I'm away for the weekend (again!) so will play on sunday.
     
  9. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,552
    First off sorry for the poor report and probably poor play. I was just clicking through and not thinking to much about the game as I start a new job tomorrow and am a bit nervous!


    Logging by BUG Mod 3.0 [Build 1000] (BtS 3.13-3.17)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 140/750 (500 BC) [19-Oct-2008 17:52:07]

    I whip the barrack as I want a Duct here ASAP and don't want to waist those hard gained hammers.

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Memphis
    Thebes finishes: Axeman
    Memphis finishes: Barracks
    Heliopolis finishes: Axeman

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
    Attitude Change: Frederick(Germany) towards Suryavarman II(Khmer), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
    Attitude Change: Frederick(Germany) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
    Civics Change: Frederick(Germany) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

    Turn 141/750 (485 BC) [19-Oct-2008 17:56:12]
    A Farm was built near Memphis
    Thebes begins: Worker (5 turns)
    Memphis begins: Aqueduct (50 turns)
    Heliopolis begins: Axeman (6 turns)

    Start the worker in Thebes as we need to get our land improved.

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Judaism founded in a distant land

    Turn 142/750 (470 BC) [19-Oct-2008 17:59:10]

    After End Turn:
    Memphis's borders expand

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 143/750 (455 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:00:27]
    Pi-Ramesses founded
    Pi-Ramesses begins: Obelisk (23 turns)



    Maybe a bit stupid to do this. Its an economy tanker.

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Heliopolis
    Memphis grows to size 5

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
    Attitude Change: Frederick(Germany) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
    Attitude Change: Frederick(Germany) towards Suryavarman II(Khmer), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 144/750 (440 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:01:47]

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Islam has spread: Pi-Ramesses
    Buddhism has spread: Heliopolis

    Turn 145/750 (425 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:02:30]



    Mansa and Asoka spent LOTS of hammers on Missionarys this round. Cheers guys!!!

    After End Turn:
    Thebes finishes: Worker

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 146/750 (410 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:03:17]
    A Farm was built near Elephantine
    Thebes begins: Aqueduct (8 turns)

    I start the Duct in Thebes with an eye on the HG.

    After End Turn:
    Heliopolis finishes: Axeman

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 147/750 (395 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:04:34]
    Heliopolis begins: Axeman (6 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Elephantine grows to size 3

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 148/750 (380 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:05:29]

    After End Turn:
    Memphis grows to size 6
    Heliopolis grows to size 5
    Alexandria grows to size 2

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 149/750 (365 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:05:50]
    A Farm was built near Alexandria

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    State Religion Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'no State Religion' to 'Confucianism'

    What an idiot!! Thats him isolated and upopular for the rest of the game/as long as he lives!

    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
    Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 150/750 (350 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:06:30]

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
    Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 151/750 (335 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:08:09]

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Elephantine
    Heliopolis finishes: Axeman

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 152/750 (320 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:09:30]
    A Mine was built near Pi-Ramesses
    A Cottage was built near Elephantine
    Heliopolis begins: Axeman (6 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Aesthetics
    Thebes finishes: Aqueduct

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 153/750 (305 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:10:24]
    Research begun: Literature (10 Turns)
    Research begun: Literature (10 Turns)
    Thebes begins: The Hanging Gardens (9 turns)

    Go for lit as the GLib will be handy.

    After End Turn:
    Elephantine grows to size 4

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
    Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
    Attitude Change: Frederick(Germany) towards The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 154/750 (290 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:12:05]
    Thebes begins: Settler (8 turns)

    After a chop goes in to the HG I start a settler for the northern Iron site. This will link our gold city and the rest of our empire and stop Toku expanding there.

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Suryavarman II(Khmer), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 155/750 (275 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:12:58]
    A Cottage was built near Memphis
    A Cottage was built near Alexandria



    How about no?

    Mansa builds TGL.

    Asoka gets a GProth.

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Memphis
    Alexandria grows to size 3

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 156/750 (260 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:14:41]

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Confucianism has spread: Memphis

    Turn 157/750 (245 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:15:44]

    After End Turn:
    Henry Bessemer (Great Engineer) born in Thebes
    Memphis grows to size 7
    Heliopolis's borders expand
    Heliopolis finishes: Axeman

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
    Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 158/750 (230 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:16:42]
    A Cottage was built near Elephantine
    Heliopolis begins: Galley (8 turns)

    We get a GE. I say rush Parth or Zeus.


    After End Turn:
    Elephantine grows to size 5

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Asoka(India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
    Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
    Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

    Turn 159/750 (215 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:18:59]

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Thebes
    Thebes finishes: Settler
    Pi-Ramesses grows to size 2
    Pi-Ramesses's borders expand

    The whip in Thebes was a tough choice as the growth there is slow but I'm worryed about the Iron.

    Other Player Actions:

    Turn 160/750 (200 BC) [19-Oct-2008 18:19:48]

    So thats where I leave it.

    Info time.

    Barb Galley will pillage our nets!!!


    Axes for the barb city.


    Demo


    Tech


    Glance


    Religion. I think we should be Islamic for diplo reasons - we inteend to attack Asoka and some friends would be nice.


    I sent the settler towards the N iron. Needs an escort.

    Our economy is tanked after Pi. I should have realised. Sorry.

    The roster

    GatlingGun - up now
    Bleys - on deck
    Groogaroo
    S.ilver
    grandad1982

    I was wondering if it would be ok to invite Jkaen (of NCSG III - The Epic of Gilgamesh fame) to take a spot. What do you guys reckon?

    The Save
     
  10. GatlingGun

    GatlingGun Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    Northwest USA
    Got it, I'll post tomorrow AM in the US
     
  11. GatlingGun

    GatlingGun Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    Northwest USA
    Sorry to leave you all hanging like this, but I'm finished with my turnset but have to go to work now... Joao declared on us and we barely escaped loosing Heliopolis to his stack... major props to whoever pre-chopped the plains-forest south west of Helopolis, this and a lucky wall-whip totally saved our bacon.

    I'll post after I get home tonight... probably late in the US... in he mean time, this is my very sparse and temporary timeline until I can do it right...

    http://pennington.net/tmp/NCSG4_Temp_rpt.txt
    (apologies for lack of carriage returns...)

    BTW, Grandad, go ahead an invite Jkaen, we need more batters in the lineup
     
  12. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Works for me, Jk is solid.

    Good sets, too. I am liking this game.
     
  13. Jkaen

    Jkaen Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    184
    Hi guys, been invited to play NCSG V with you, but until that starts I guess I can help out here!

    As for the Joao declaration, I guess that gives us the excuse to go take city 2
     
  14. GatlingGun

    GatlingGun Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    Northwest USA
    Executive Overview
    Too much to say about this turnset... it was quite eventful... at a high-level, we finished the Hanging Gardens, Temple of Artemis, started the Great Library... researched Literature, Priesthood, and started Currency. We also founded Giza (aka "the iron city").

    Most notably, Joao declared on us, after I refused a couple of demands; fortunately we lived through this round... but on to Bleys to execute the next 10 turns.

    Economically, things improved pretty well until we had to start a mad war-whipping frenzy.

    Timeline
    T160 - Preflight: Thebes way below happy cap, but we are trying to punch out the Hanging Gardens, so I'll let it ride for a while. Memphis is building a Galley that can be whipped for 2pop, but experience tells me they need to deploy in pairs when a barb is already on-site and pillaging; so that may not get fixed for a while yet. 20% research is pretty bad, we are at REX-limit until we get cottages, Currency or CoL up. We have a GE sitting next to Thebes; I'm tempted to burn him for the Parthenon next to the Iron. Pi Ramses is costing us an arm-and-leg in maintenance... even at city-size 1.

    My turnset goals:
    Build the Parthenon with our GE, and trade Aesthetics while building the GL in Thebes. (6G, -1G/t @ 20%, 25B/t)

    T161 - Border pop in Thebes. PiRam: Oblisk > Walls. Continued exploration of Freddie's lands. Our axe garrison was poised to burn Ainu, but I redeployed them towards Memphis for military protection... Ainu will probably culture-flip in a while. I kept the settler in Thebes instead of settling the Iron to keep our economy from crashing. I mm'd PiR to work the Gold, which will prevent the city from growing, but it allowed me to bump the slider +10%, short-term... This brings in Literature by one more turn. (6G, 0G/t @ 30%, 32B/t)

    T162 - Toku has a couple of Chariots heading south of PiRam for purposes unknown... perhaps to scout a city location just east of Asoka. (6G, 0G/t @ 30%, 32B/t)

    T163 - Start building farms near Thebes, which are sorely needed. (6G, 0G/t @ 30%, 32B/t)

    T164 - Go away Mansa...


    T165 - We got the Hanging Gardens... Thebes: Hanging Gardens > Archer. Whip Library in Elephantine for 2 pop. Barb galley quits pillaging Heliopolis for a while. Liturature > Priesthood (for CoL trade).



    T166 - Elephantine: Library > Barracks. I just discovered that Thebes doesn't even have a Library, which will delay our GL plans a bit. PiRam's border pops and I mm a bit (7G, 1G/t @ 30%, 42B/t)

    T167 - Whip another galley in Heliopolis for 2pop. Whip aquaduct in Memphis for 2pop. Send an 2 axes north to Memphis for defenses... Keep a couple in Alexandria for the same. I could whip the Library in Thebes for 3pop, but I decide against it as it's only size 6 and doesn't have a lot of food-surplus at the moment. Since we now have axes in Alexandria, I send the warrior to spy on Asoka. (8G, -1G/t @ 30%, 41B/t)

    T167 - Priesthood > Currency. Memphis: Aquaduct > Buddhist Temple. Both galleys at Heliopolis deploy for battle with the barb... I leave them fortified in hopes it will attack and die. Toku found Ainu south of Thebes and I'm now rethinking the decision not to burn it immediately. (7G, -2G/t @ 30%, 40B/t)

    T168 - Nuts... all our possible trades for Code of Laws are red-lined... this will have to wait...

    T169 - Heliopolis: Workboat > Archer

    T170 - Barb galley suicides into ours... yeah sailors. (7G, -2G/t @ 30%, 40B/t)

    T171 - Whip Library in Thebes for 2pop (was at 7pop).

    Since we are SPI and can easily switch, I thought about this for a while... but ultimately denied Joao's demand, which I'll later pay consequences for...

    Buddhism isn't very popular and with our low military strength, the last thing I want to do is get Toku any more cranky...

    T172 - Start GL in Thebes... Toku has a settler party headed for the iron site and I rush the settler that direction... I dont know if we will make it in time. (7G, +1G/t @ 30%, 43B/t)



    T173 - Alexandria: Barracks > Archer. I burn the GE for the Temple of Artemis in Thebes as this should give us an income and GPP boost immediately.

    T174 - Thebes: Temple of Artemis > GL


    Toku mysteriously was lingering at the iron site for one too many turns... with basically no food we will never get much out of this city, but it secures some Iron, closes the door on Toku's expansion, and I like the way it sits in the knuckle of the mountains (for defenses)


    T176 - Founded the Iron city...


    Freddie doesn't like Sury... I should have noticed the mass annoyance at Sury earlier, but didn't realize until after Freddie's request...


    Another demand from Mansa... that guy can be so annoying... almost as bad as Joao...


    Speaking of him... Joao is stacking troops on our borders... I switch into military-whip mode and start pre-chopping the forest near Heliopolis


    The bigger stack is near Heliopolis...


    T177 - Joao declares.



    The whipped walls and chopping paid off and we get massive hammer boost in Helopolis thanks to the fact that we have stone, which accelerates everything we do while building walls.... note that you will see a small amount of gold overflow in the next turn because I accidentally triggered the chop/whip-with stone gold exploit (7G, +1G/t @ 30%, 43B/t)


    His main stack...


    T178 - Joao is attacking Heliopolis first. We have two archers, walls and a whipped spear against his 3x CR1 swords and 2x Chariots... who will win? An axe is almost there to reinforce. I also pushed a spear ahead of the GL in Thebes just in case. (17G, -1G/t @ 10%, 33B/t)

    T179 - We barely survive this first round, with a wounded archer as the only remaining force in Helio (he has another spear in the massive hammer queue from our extremely lucky turbo-wall-whip/chop)... I send our Thebes war chariot to Helio, but temporarily leave Thebes undefended... Joao has two wounded Chariots and a heavily-wounded CR1 sword remaining. With the war chariot and axe from Memphis on station now, We may survive yet. I move a war chariot on our gold, since Joao has an archer threatening to pillage at PiRams... (16G, +4G/t @ 10%, 33B/t)

    Closing Remarks
    The main war-front at the moment is Heliopolis, which successfully repulsed Joao's initial attack... although he might come around the west side though Asoka... fortunately he doesn't have open borders with Toku...

    Also I've been thinking about how we should specialize our empire... as much as I hate to say it, I think we should build the Heroic Epic in Thebes unless we can come up with a better-hammer location soon. I'd love for this to be a pure wonder-hog city, but that doesn't seem to be a winning strategy in my mind. The HE, combined with Bureaucracy, should give us an awesome military pump in Thebes. I also think we should settle our first GG...

    From a research perspective, I'm torn between CoL, Horseback Riding and Construction... we might be able to get trades for Construction if we are lucky...

    Some may notice that I changed my mind about rushing the Parthenon. Part of this was due to finding the right city for it... I was debating how close I wanted it to our borders when we have 3 warmongers next to us... and I didn't want a pile of Great Artist points polluting Thebes. The other thought was that ToA is available much earlier in the game and I was surprised it hadn't already been built by this time. When nobody else knew Aesthetics, and ToA is still available... I bit the bullet and rushed ToA.

    Ultimately I'd love to get the Parthenon. However, this truly is a lower priority than our war, which would seem to be a mostly defensive struggle until we get the HE, Cats and (in a perfect world) a settled general. The vast majority of our hammers have been for butter, but we need a lot more guns considering our neighbors.

    BIG NOTE: Thebes is currently undefended and building a spear ahead of the Great Library. I redeployed Thebes' chariot to Heliopolis until we can reinforce it some more. A small stack is approaching Memphis and a pillager is near PiRamses.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,552
    Hi Jkaen. I meant IV not V! I stick you on the roster.

    GatlingGun
    Bleys - up now
    Groogaroo - on deck
    S.ilver
    grandad1982
    Jkaen - new blood to feed the Mummy.....

    Nice set GatlingGun. Sorry I left you a bit of a mess.

    Joao is a bad man and needs a telling off. After we secure our lands that is. I say we try to take the gems city if we can then try to get peace.

    Techwise I reckon Construction followd by CoL is our route. The sooner we get cats the sooner Joao is no longer a problem.

    As for Thebes being a millitary city I don't see why not. Might not need the HE though as it already has massive production and wouldn't matter so much if we swapped it to a wonder. HE city souldn't build wonders IMO (with the odd exception ;)). Maybe the HE should go to Alex which also has good production potential if a little food short.

    We need to make a religious choice. I would have liked Islam but at this point I think keeping Toku from dogging us is to important. Also he borders two of our natural enermies and provides a buffer to the Muslim world. So I say Conf is our best religious choice ATM. If we need to we can switch to what ever later on - SPI makes that ok.
     
  16. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    What I can see...

    1) Confucianism is a no-go. That would put us at odds against everyone except Toku. Toku is last in points and backwards in tech. He also hates Fred, so that will be his first target. (Think Monty vs Mehmed from NCSG3. He's not going to come after us unless we can make him more mad than he is right now). Confucianism would screw us over badly, as we wouldn't be able to broker techs anymore. I would rather go for Shwedagon Paya and pick up free religion, rather than adopt one right now with all the religious pacts going on. Not that I'm saying we should do that, because that's a bad waste of hammers right there... even with gold.

    EDIT: Seems we might need to redirect some espionage to Toku as well, because he doesn't appear on the power graph, which is a problem, considering he's right next door.

    2) Is there a reason we are hiding Aesthetics? We could shop it around to do some massive backfilling, and even get currency early, since we already sunk beakers into it. If we can get currency from Mansa, we can even use that as trade bait, as many AIs don't have that yet, and it could get us juicy stuff like Calendar to activate our two plantation resources (3 if you count the silks at barb town as eventually ours), or Monarchy to hook up the wine at Elephantine. We probably need to hard-tech Construction, as Mansa is the only one holding it right now, and we don't have anything to leverage it with.

    Basically, unless we want the wonders from Aesthetics, we have no reason to hide it. Even if we DO want Parth, we happen to have marble and be the only Industrious civ on the map, so no one is beating us to it if we want it, unless they land a GE.

    3) We have two chariots near Pi-Ram to kill the pillager, and one of them is Flanking 2, along with decent odds to win outright. It should be trivial.

    4) Turn the spearman going away from Memphis around and send him back, as there is incoming against Memphis and its production sucks, while Helio's production is good. Joao's units outside of Helio are dead "Ragnar Style". 2 units just moved in there, and one is due next turn, more than enough to wail on 3 beat units, 2 of which are chariots to be eaten by our uber chariots.

    5) We SHOULD be able to take the Gems city, seeing as we have the #1 MFG, while it appears Joao's just dropped into the cellar. It's on a hill, and not overwhelmed by some other city's culture, so it would make a great chokepoint.

    6) For HE, I'm inclined to agree with grandad in putting it in Alexandria. Food poor, but we should be ok if we farm all flatland tiles. Speaking of which, please demolish the silly cottage there :p. Honestly though, we really don't have a great candidate for HE.

    Also, on the subject of national wonders, we should get Maoi up in Helio ASAP. Maoi then a lighthouse ensures we don't have to look at that city again except for population caps. It'll be able to provide us with a steady stream of units and still have some commerce to boot.

    We could potential lump both Maoi and HE there, but seeing as this is a Pangaea, we don't care much about boats.
     
  17. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Got it, good work guys. Can play today but not 100% sure I can post before tomorrow. Will read up the suggestions.

    Welcome Jk!
     
  18. GatlingGun

    GatlingGun Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northwest USA
    I personally hate the idea of putting the HE in a city that is food-limited... we would be making a short-term decision that has very long-term consequences... bottom-line, you need food to get hammers, and I almost never build the HE unless a city has two solid food sources + either hills or Guilds (to make workshops worthwhile).

    We only have one city that really qualifies at the moment and that is Thebes... like I say, it's not the perfect world by any means, but it gets us a very steady stream of good troops, and how many more wonders will we build??? Late-game, we can use our Iron-works city (presumably another AI's former capital) to hog wonders... but the middle game doesn't have a whole lot of them and let's face it, we have both stone and marble... we won't spend a lot of time banging out wonders... and when we do, we can spew out military quickly while we build if we have the HE in Thebes.
     
  19. GatlingGun

    GatlingGun Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northwest USA
    2. I was holding Aesthetics in hopes of getting a good start on the Parthenon before trading it.

    3. I have to disagree on this point... we only have two good units on the far west side of the map... both are Chariots and that archer is in the woods... when I checked odds, it was like 68% to beat him... since the chariot is str 5, let him suicide... who cares and we stand a better chance on defense in this particular case. I'd rather not to take a chance of loosing one of our few defenders on that side, even if it is only one archer.

    4. Memphis has LOTS of food, and I've been whipping military there without issues... I think we are fine there.

    5. Agree in taking the gems city; however, I could argue that we are first in production due to being Industrious + Stone/Marble + wonder-building.

    6. Agree on Moai in Helio; however, see my comments above about HE in Thebes... I feel pretty strongly about getting a good HE ASAP and I don't think Alexandria qualifies well-enough. If we insist on making this a binary decision (which I don't see as necessary), I'd rather hog wonders in Alexandria and pump military in Thebes.
     
  20. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,299
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    lol, I actually said it would probably be a pretty bad idea. If I was playing by myself on Prince or something, I might try it, but I think we have other priorities.

    Parth would definitely be nice... but as I said we are the only industrious civ and we have marble, so it's bagged if we want it (even if we dial it in Alexandria), unless someone has a GE hidden somewhere.

    I also think we need to put some more thought into these wonders that we're snagging, as they stall development. Admittedly, we're very good at churning them out... but I'm uncertain why we sprung for certain wonders (Wall, ToA...). I do have a fairly large aversion to wonders though, so take what I say about them with a grain of salt.

    The archer is double drill promoted with cover. Nothing else. The BEST unit to take that out is some kind of horse unit, which we are drowning in. The flanking chariot is 68.7% + 12.5% withdraw. That's over 80% chance not to die. We can follow up with the garrison chariot as well, AND the C3 chariot in Giza is close enough that those two are not our only two "good units".

    Granted, we can wait for it to move onto less favourable terrain, but we should be taking the initiative with our fast units, instead of sitting around waiting to be attacked. We are fortunate (or are we unfortunate), that there is little of value to be defended around Pi-Ram.

    Memphis may have plenty of food at the moment, but the incoming Joao units will land on our corn tile first, and there goes our food surplus. The city is still also mired in whip anger, and we don't want to be mass whipping units here, as the city has better things to do, like raising its happy cap. Thebes, Helio, and Alexandria are quite well equipped to make units. You effectively blunted the surprise attack, and with Joao scrambling to get units for a stack, we have the initiative for now.

    That's not precisely true, because at the time of the MFG graph, we are building a spearman in Thebes, not the GL. But I agree we've been buffered somewhat by Thebes and the wonder building. We may want to wait for Cats or sue for peace beforehand (maybe some pillaging?) as the odds right now don't look good without throwing lots of units at the city.

    AFAIK, it would be a fairly binary decision. At least in the case of the HE. Once that is down, it usually produces units endlessly, unless it needs to increase population caps through some building...

    Alexandria is pretty marginal, but we are going off the logic that you want to get the HE down ASAP. I'd rather wait until we have a good site. I do think that that good site is not too far off, as it appears Joao's capital has hills, food, and flats by rivers to make it a production kraftwerck, not to mention all the forests (if they are still there). If we can wait until construction and cats for the demolition of Joao, that would be the best site that I can see right now, barring Thebes where we are busy spamming wonders. If we are done spamming wonders for now, I guess Thebes is fine... But a Bureau capital of an industrious civ with marble et al spamming wonders is pretty crazy...
     

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