NCSG IV Redux - The Mummy Strikes Back

[Jkaen]

I did wonder why we were not planning on taking somebody elses capital instead. Have we pretty much given up on the whole RE approach now?

 

[GatlingGun]

lol...

Yes, I misread that and corrected it before you posted

AFAIK, it would be a fairly binary decision. At least in the case of the HE. Once that is down, it usually produces units endlessly, unless it needs to increase population caps through some building...

Alexandria is pretty marginal, but we are going off the logic that you want to get the HE down ASAP. I'd rather wait until we have a good site. I do think that that good site is not too far off, as it appears Joao's capital has hills, food, and flats by rivers to make it a production kraftwerck, not to mention all the forests (if they are still there). If we can wait until construction and cats for the demolition of Joao, that would be the best site that I can see right now, barring Thebes where we are busy spamming wonders. If we are done spamming wonders for now, I guess Thebes is fine... But a Bureau capital of an industrious civ with marble et al spamming wonders is pretty crazy...

It's binary only if we insist on it being so. There is nothing preventing us from doing some wonder-building in the HE city. There is also nothing forcing us to grab every possible wonder in the game; or for that matter do it all in the same city.

I asked for an HE ASAP because getting other AI cities sooner is obviously better than later... and as the game progresses, Macemen and such start costing lots of hammers. On the other hand, we obviously only have one HE, so make it count. I also would rather wait for another city if Alexandria is the proposal; it looses tiles to desert / mountain, doesn't have sufficient food to mine the hills... and it will never get a levee.

Let's lay out a plan for what world wonders we will build in Thebes and start pumping sufficient units out to go on the offensive; but judging by the location of our hammers and food, a lot of that military production will likely be in our capital. I still vote for settling a GG there. Since we have the GW, we likely will get a decent number of them.

As a side note, what national wonders do we want in Thebes?

 

[grandad1982]

@Jkaen
I think the RE is probably out barring for the moment. Of course it can come back on if we capture the right buildings (AP when its built, a shrine or two...). ATM we just need to stabalise and reduce the compotition a bit.

National wonders in Thebes? IW and RC? Or if we do build the HE there then WP as well.

Tech should be aimed at getting Catapults ASAP. Joao's gem city will be a lovely addition. Till then maybe pillage a bit but don't waste troops lives on it.

If we take peace then that barb city can get some CR troops for us.

Wonders left for us to build? Still all the RE buildings.... if thats what we want.

GG in Thebes definately but I say lets hold off for a short while yet on the HE.

 

[S.ilver]

It's binary only if we insist on it being so. There is nothing preventing us from doing some wonder-building in the HE city.

Nothing actually physically preventing us from putting more wonders in the HE city, but the idea makes me cringe from a specialization point of view. Simply put, it wouldn't be an efficient use of the HE if we are still planning on rolling out more wonders. Which brings me to your next point.

There is also nothing forcing us to grab every possible wonder in the game; or for that matter do it all in the same city.

We still need to define what wonders we are going for. Again, I have an aversion to wonders normally, as they are expensive, and I prefer putting resources towards actual expansion or development.

We need to plan the wonders out in advance. In restarting this game without the Espionage element, I thought that we were going to avoid the GW, yet we ended up building it anyways. We get a Great Generals bonus, but that is fairly marginal (Imperialistic is not the best of traits anyways..., and it is better than GW!). Mids was on the plan to begin with, but Hanging Gardens was not really discussed (although I may have inadvertently suggested it), although it is good in terms of long term planning. ToA was an opportunity grab thanks to the engineer, but I am unsure if I see the benefit to it, as we have 1 trade route in the capital, and no way to otherwise improve the output of the trade routes. A coastal city at least has harbor and customs house opportunities (although I think they changed the customs house since I recall it being only for intercontinental trade, and now it says foreign trade).

All these resources could have been put towards military or expansion (although we are a bit limited in quality areas to expand), or save for later wonders.

Not to call anyone out, but we, as a team, seem to be getting wonder addicted just because the wonders are available and we can pump them out in Thebes.

I asked for an HE ASAP because getting other AI cities sooner is obviously better than later... and as the game progresses, Macemen and such start costing lots of hammers. On the other hand, we obviously only have one HE, so make it count. I also would rather wait for another city if Alexandria is the proposal; it looses tiles to desert / mountain, doesn't have sufficient food to mine the hills... and it will never get a levee.

Thebes can be the HE if we want it up immediately, but again, I would not build anything but units there, from a specialization point of view. The two most expensive things in the game are wonders and an effective military. It is inefficient to flip flop between them, so if we want Thebes building military, we can go for it. Keep in mind if we crank units there, we can probably roll over Joao when we get catapults, and his capital would be fine for producing wonders as well.

Let's lay out a plan for what world wonders we will build in Thebes and start pumping sufficient units out to go on the offensive; but judging by the location of our hammers and food, a lot of that military production will likely be in our capital. I still vote for settling a GG there. Since we have the GW, we likely will get a decent number of them.

As a side note, what national wonders do we want in Thebes?

Other than a super medic, I'm a pretty big proponent of settling GGs too. Level 3 units off the bat is nothing to be sneezed at, and it looks like our units are coming from Thebes for the foreseeable future.

If we want HE in Thebes, the other wonder to pair up with it will be WP. I consider those two wonders basically inseparable, along with the IW/RC combo which are my personal gold standards for military based wonders.

GL is going into Thebes though, so Oxford would not be a horrible choice, although there are probably better places for it.

 

[Bleys]

OK here we go. First thing I did was whip a couple things and make a decent trade, which gave us some cash right away. I also went Buddhist, since we have 4 cities in it, and went to OR. Need a missionary for Thebes though, my bad, forgot to make it.

Spoiler :

Turn 179/750 (85 AD) [22-Oct-2008 14:16:36]
Tech learned: Meditation
Tech learned: Monotheism
Tech learned: Currency
Research begun: Construction (18 Turns)
While attacking, War Chariot decimates Portuguese Archer (Prob Victory: 68.7%)
The whip was applied in Elephantine
The whip was applied in Alexandria
Heliopolis finishes: Spearman
Elephantine finishes: Barracks
Alexandria finishes: Archer
Whip anger has decreased in Elephantine
A Farm was destroyed near Memphis
A Farm near Memphis was destroyed by Portuguese Chariot
State Religion Change: The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'
State Religion Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Confucianism' to 'Buddhism'
Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Asoka(India), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 180/750 (100 AD) [22-Oct-2008 14:25:07]
Heliopolis begins: Axeman (6 turns)
Elephantine begins: Spearman (26 turns)
Alexandria begins: Archer (7 turns)
Alexandria begins: War Chariot (8 turns)
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
While attacking, War Chariot decimates Portuguese Archer (Prob Victory: 90.9%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory at Pi-Ramesses, War Chariot (5.00/5) defeats Portuguese Archer (Prob Victory: 90.9%)
Elephantine begins: Archer (19 turns)
The whip was applied in Thebes
Thebes finishes: Spearman
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 181/750 (115 AD) [22-Oct-2008 14:30:34]
Memphis finishes: Spearman
Alexandria grows to size 7
Whip anger has decreased in Memphis
Whip anger has decreased in Heliopolis

Did some more trading here, cash and techs.

Turn 182/750 (130 AD) [22-Oct-2008 14:33:17]
Tech learned: Monarchy
Tech learned: Calendar
Elephantine grows to size 6
Alexandria finishes: War Chariot

Turn 183/750 (145 AD) [22-Oct-2008 14:41:43]
Alexandria begins: Axeman (5 turns)
A Mine was built near Nagoya
Thebes finishes: The Great Library
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards The Mummy Strikes Back(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

GL comes in. Toku turned Buddhist too, so we have a religious buffer in all directions, once we make peace with Jaoa that is.

Turn 184/750 (160 AD) [22-Oct-2008 14:46:40]
Thebes begins: Swordsman (5 turns)
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking, Axeman decimates Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 61.0%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory at Ainu, Axeman (4.05/5) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 61.0%)
Captured Ainu (Barbarian)
Ainu begins: Obelisk (46 turns)
Elephantine begins: Mausoleum of Maussollos (338 turns)
Thebes finishes: Swordsman
Memphis grows to size 7
Memphis finishes: Buddhist Temple
Heliopolis finishes: Axeman

Toku had sent units to try to capture that barb city in the south, so when he got it down to a single archer, I attacked with the Axe stationed there, and took the city. Thanks whoever left that dude there, heh.

Turn 185/750 (175 AD) [22-Oct-2008 15:08:02]
Thebes begins: Swordsman (7 turns)
Elephantine begins: Archer (21 turns)
Tech learned: Construction
Research begun: Code of Laws (6 Turns)
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Another trade with Mansa and we have Construction. Whipped some Swords into Cats in a bunch of cities between here and the end of my set.

Turn 186/750 (190 AD) [22-Oct-2008 15:12:21]
Spearman promoted: Combat I
While attacking, Spearman decimates Portuguese Chariot (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory near Heliopolis, Spearman (2.44/4) defeats Portuguese Chariot (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
While attacking, Axeman decimates Portuguese Chariot (Prob Victory: 75.1%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory near Heliopolis, Axeman (1.60/5) defeats Portuguese Chariot (Prob Victory: 75.1%)
Isoroku Yamamoto (Great General) born in Memphis
While attacking, Axeman decimates Portuguese Swordsman (Prob Victory: 79.7%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory near Heliopolis, Axeman (3.30/5) defeats Portuguese Swordsman (Prob Victory: 79.7%)
The whip was applied in Elephantine
The whip was applied in Alexandria
Thebes grows to size 6
Elephantine finishes: Archer
Alexandria finishes: Axeman
While attacking in Egyptian territory near Heliopolis, Spearman (0.04/4) defeats Portuguese Spearman (Prob Victory: 86.7%)
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Asoka(India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

There is some flexing from Jaoa, but once our cats get here, that Gem city is ours, at least.

Turn 187/750 (205 AD) [22-Oct-2008 15:16:32]
Alexandria begins: Catapult (8 turns)
Spearman promoted: Shock
While attacking, War Chariot decimates Portuguese Chariot (Prob Victory: 90.8%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory near Heliopolis, War Chariot (4.15/5) defeats Portuguese Chariot (Prob Victory: 90.8%)
Isoroku Yamamoto (War Chariot) promoted: Lead by Warlord
Isoroku Yamamoto (War Chariot) promoted: Combat I
Isoroku Yamamoto (War Chariot) promoted: Medic I
Isoroku Yamamoto (War Chariot) promoted: Medic II
Isoroku Yamamoto (War Chariot) promoted: Medic III
Elephantine begins: Swordsman (60 turns)
Pytheas (Great Merchant) born in Thebes
Buddhism has spread: Ainu
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Asoka(India), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

We get a GG pop, I attach it to a War Chariot for a Medic III unit. This will help. I didnt make a decision on the HE in my set, so I didnt want to settle him anywhere. I wouldnt mind HE in Thebes, though. We can whip Units into Wonders with production bonuses on both.

Turn 188/750 (220 AD) [22-Oct-2008 15:19:14]
While attacking, Axeman decimates Portuguese Spearman (Prob Victory: 89.8%)
While attacking in Egyptian territory near Heliopolis, Axeman (2.50/5) defeats Portuguese Spearman (Prob Victory: 89.8%)
A Plantation was built near Elephantine
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Whip anger has decreased in Thebes
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Asoka(India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Suryavarman II(Khmer) towards Joao II(Portugal), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Popped a GM here, and I decided to take the tech. Its a beauty for us:

Spoiler :

I love forges.
Turn 189/750 (235 AD) [22-Oct-2008 15:21:13]
The whip was applied in Thebes
The whip was applied in Memphis
The whip was applied in Heliopolis
The whip was applied in Elephantine
The whip was applied in Pi-Ramesses
The whip was applied in Ainu
Thebes finishes: Swordsman
Memphis finishes: Swordsman
Heliopolis grows to size 4
Heliopolis finishes: Swordsman
Elephantine grows to size 5
Elephantine finishes: Swordsman
Pi-Ramesses finishes: Library
Ainu finishes: Obelisk
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Asoka(India), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Barbarism' to 'Vassalage'
Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

A big round of whipping to get Cats started in most cities. Once finished, taking that Gem city should be a breeze.

Turn 190/750 (250 AD) [22-Oct-2008 15:24:36]
Thebes begins: Catapult (9 turns)
Memphis begins: Catapult (25 turns)
Heliopolis begins: Catapult (10 turns)
Pi-Ramesses begins: Granary (90 turns)
Ainu begins: Granary (30 turns)
A Mine was built near Thebes

Once those finish up, we should have no worries. We should get a settler down to the SW spot where we can pick up 3 resources with 1 semi-junky city. HE should get started next set as well, anywhere is fine by me, its a good building that doesnt need to be absolutely min-maxxed.

Heres a few more screens of interest:

Spoiler :

Fun looking game, a good set of AIs, decent land, we should do well here.

ROSTER
GatlingGun
Bleys - just played
Groogaroo - up now
S.ilver - on deck
grandad1982
Jkaen

 

[grandad1982]

I have to say that I don't like Oxford in Thebes. Its a production city pure and simple.

Wonders we might want to build. UoS and SM. Thats it really. We would have to comit to a religion for these to be worth while.

Bearing this in mind we're done with wonders for a while (apart from finishing the GLib) if agree to the wonders list. This means we could put HE in Thebes and then use the troops from there to take on Joao. We can us his capital to build the UoS and SM (if we want them).

I agree with S.ilver about the IW/RC and HE/WP combos. These are the foundations of a great military.

 

[S.ilver]

Great set Bleys, nice getting our military buffed up to take out Joao. I notice we're about even with him on the power graph now.

I'm going to go cry in a corner though, because I'll never be as good at whipping as Bleys.

Probably would've been best to use the GG on the Woody 3 Warrior though. Does the medic effect stack if the promotions are on different units?

 

[Groogaroo]

I'm up! I'm still not quite civ-ready yet I've got the new hard drive for my laptop and I'm still getting things set up.

Fancy a swap S.ilver? I should be good to go in a day or two.

 

[S.ilver]

A day or two eh? I can't play until tomorrow afternoon, so if everyone's ok with that I'll take it then.

 

[Jkaen]

Nice set, I too thought the idea was to make the woodsman a medic, but I guess we will end up with more than 1 SOD in the long run.

Have we got a clear view of Joao capital yet to know whats its like as a city spot?

 

[Groogaroo]

A day or two eh? I can't play until tomorrow afternoon, so if everyone's ok with that I'll take it then.

Thats great, thanks S.ilver.



I'm sorry I havn't been contributing much to the general discussion I really need to catch up on whats going on in this game, once I finally get my laptop back in action.

 

[GatlingGun]

Hi S.ilver,

If we were real people in a room with lots of other real people, this is the point where I would walk away satisfied with the results... however, since we are playing a SG and the whole point of a SG is to get better at playing the game, I'll engage on this a bit more for the sake of the debate...

Nothing actually physically preventing us from putting more wonders in the HE city, but the idea makes me cringe from a specialization point of view. Simply put, it wouldn't be an efficient use of the HE if we are still planning on rolling out more wonders. Which brings me to your next point...

[snip]

Thebes can be the HE if we want it up immediately, but again, I would not build anything but units there, from a specialization point of view. The two most expensive things in the game are wonders and an effective military. It is inefficient to flip flop between them, so if we want Thebes building military, we can go for it

First, I'm perhaps as big a proponent of specialization as you are; when I first suggested the HE in Thebes, I pointed out that it really isn't the perfect world, but it's probably the best we can do (for a while).

However, I'm not sure we should always be dogmatic about no wonder-building in a HE city... normally, I'm like you and do nothing but pump units out of it... but I think it's going a little far to suggest it shouldn't build any wonders... spiritual leaders specialize in swapping between guns and butter rather quickly... and when we are starting small, we don't always have the luxury of dedicating our best-hammer city to units. After we get HBR, any city can pump out decent units, so it's not the worst thing if the HE city has to focus on a wonder for several turns.

That's not to say we should spend non-trivial portions of the game building wonders in our HE city... but a couple certainly seem acceptable in my mind... plus if we've been dedicating the HE city to units for most of the game, our military won't take that much of a hit for the relatively short time we're building a wonder or two there.

We still need to define what wonders we are going for. Again, I have an aversion to wonders normally, as they are expensive, and I prefer putting resources towards actual expansion or development.

[snip]

ToA was an opportunity grab thanks to the engineer, but I am unsure if I see the benefit to it, as we have 1 trade route in the capital, and no way to otherwise improve the output of the trade routes. A coastal city at least has harbor and customs house opportunities (although I think they changed the customs house since I recall it being only for intercontinental trade, and now it says foreign trade).

I took ToA simply because we are running Representation, and our stated goal is an RE... ToA gives you a prophet in addition to the commerce boost.

Remember that things like Harbors and Customs Houses add bonuses, not multiply. Since the bonuses are additive, a similar argument could be made to consider Free Market and Corporation as similar enhancements to ToA... although I'd say that none of the above enhance ToA... it's really the other way around... ToA is an enhancement to the status quo... whatever that is.

All these resources could have been put towards military or expansion (although we are a bit limited in quality areas to expand), or save for later wonders.

A fair point... If I had to do it over again, I'd burn that GE for the GL in Memphis instead of starting it in Thebes... this would have freed up Thebes up to pump units out and grow to happy cap more quickly. From a specialization point of view, Memphis is a much better place for the GL. I was nervous about putting it there short-term because it was so close to Joao and I'm probably a bit over-cautious about where I put wonders relative to my borders.

GL is going into Thebes though, so Oxford would not be a horrible choice, although there are probably better places for it.

I'd avoid Oxford in Thebes... my best experiences have been choosing one of these two combos in a food-rich city:
National Epic / Wall St (run merchants... settle prophets / Merchants here)
National Epic / Oxford (obviously run scientists).

Since we are playing Pangea and have so many holy cities to choose from, I'd say put Oxford and National Epic in a food-rich city; we can take a holy city from the AI and make it our Wall St.

I agree that Oxford and the GL have a lot of synergy; however, due to some on my part when I started the GL in Thebes, that probably isn't the best move for us.

I'm comfortable with HE and WP in Thebes... I think it's a great plan.

 

[Bleys]

Ack my bad on the GG medic. That Wood III warrior was a long way from the front though, I kinda forgot about him. Oh well, we will get more GGs I am sure.

I think I also have a bit of in Elephentine. I chopped 2 forests into the MoM there. I know we didnt discuss it much, but the MoM is one of my favorite wonders. I tend to get at least 3 Golden Ages, so that wonder is an extra 15 turns of it. I should have started the Parth though. We have marble, and building a couple GArtist wonders in another city is fine IMHO.

 

[S.ilver]

250AD (190):

Preflight check. Dial science up to 60% to get CoL next turn. -40gpt, but we'll have to turn off research anyways to avoid losing gold.

Thebes is low on pop for now, so taking over the riverside mine for Elephantine so we can get decent hammers there.

The west end of our empire needs some serious worker love, so I'll see if I can't address that, especially considering we don't want our workers around the east where they can become targets.

Micro the tiles a bit. Joao has a stack of 4 units (Hero sword, Axe, and 2 chariots), that will likely attack one of our mines next turn.

Mansa is still last place but first in tech annoyingly. Since Sury hates him, he will hopefully attack him sooner or later.

265AD (191):

CoL comes in and Christianity is FIADL, so someone grabbed Phil. Amazingly enough, the foreign advisor screen says this is Sury. Science gets dialed down to 0%, so we are not losing money. Cash is pouring out in part thanks to 13gpt being paid for our units, so we must take the fight to Joao or go bankrupt.

Well despite all the discussion, I realize we have planned nothing past CoL for the tech tree, as we already have construction and are dialing out catapults. Ok, well I opt for Machinery, as no one else has it and won't for a while, because no one else has MC! It'll also take us medieval, and reduce tech costs, and we can't reduce its cost anymore. 32 turns at 0% sci. Hopefully it will get better.

Joao has his 4 unit stack on top of Helio's mine now, so I throw some units at the stack. We lose an Axeman and a Chariot, but kill his entire stack and get a Great General in Elephantine. I also think he got a GG from it, so hopefully he settles that for us . I send the GG to Thebes to settle as planned.

I fire the scientists at Thebes, as we need to grow this city back so it can work its numerous mines...

Bleys... uh... did something at Alexandria to give us an insane overflow of 50 hammers (chopped a forest?). Since we are industrious, I dump the whole thing into a forge, which will finish in 4 turns.

280AD (192):

It turns out we have too many swords and not enough axes. I can't attack much because Joao has swords mostly too, and swords on swords aren't very cost effective...

I end up throwing some swords at another mini stack that Joao sends. We lose 1 sword, while killing 2 enemy swords and 3 enemy chariots.

Not much happening in the cities, as I am reluctant to crack the whip...

295AD (193):

Joao sallies forth with an archer and kills one of our spearmen. Our chariot has 99% chance to win and kills him. Joao left with 2 archers in the city.

I clear out the archer and chariot that was harassing Memphis, but the last unit I have, a spear, has horrendous odds against Joao's spear, so I let it stay. Some shock axes can kill it if Joao is dumb enough to leave it hanging around.

Still nothing going on in the cities, but if I remember how whipping stuff works, I may have a chance to whip the forge next turn for massive overflow...

I whip the cat at Helio, as we need some artillery support.

310AD (194):

Forge in Alexandria is 1 turn from completion with ONE hammer needed at 179/180. I whip it and it goes to 280/180, so hopefully the cheese worked. The city grew anyways and was working an unmined hill.

Joao moved his spear back, so no free XP for me. Joao also moved a horse archer into Gem city, so that's an unpleasant surprise...

Some delay in the attack because we don't have cats around yet, but that problem should be solved soon.

Cat done in Helio, and we dial up Moai.

325AD (195):

The HA that was in Gem city last turn foolishly sallied on to try and get to an incoming catapult. He is standing on flatland beside a spearman now . The spearman says "yum" and takes the 2 XP.

The cat is done in Thebes, so dial up an Axe. I would go HE, but someone needs to make our units right now...

Alexandria whip netted 48 overflow hammers, so clearly I missed something about how overflow works. I dial up a courthouse, as we are losing 6 gold on this town.

340AD (196):

Catapults moving up. We have 3, and I hope that will be sufficient.

355AD (197):

Asoka shows up and demands that we stop trading with the Khmer. Since we don't like the Khmer, and Asoka is our "friend", I agree.

We can 2 pop whip Alexandria's courthouse, so I go for it.

370AD (198):

Joao sends 3 HAs into our territory unescorted, just like the first one. They get cleaned up by 2 spears and a sword.

We are done the axe at Thebes, so I send him up and order a catapult.

Courts are done at Alex, and the overflow is enough for a unit, so I put up a Sword.

385AD (199):

Asoka wants Metal Casting now... I am not in the business of giving away techs, so no.

Sword is done in Alex, sending it up and dialing an axe.

Giza finally finished its obelisk, and I am not sure what to make of this town. It won't be contributing very quickly, so I dial up a granary.

400AD (200):

Joao was stocking units in Gem city for some reason, and now he sends out a spear and 2 pults by themselves!!! Next to one of our stacks containing swords and axes!!!

Free XP and Michiel de Ruyter is born in Thebes.

I recall that our woody 3 warrior is still sitting in Pi-Ram, and I have yet to relieve him.

The cat finished in Memphis, and I order a courthouse, to be whipped when possible. The cat skips its turn, because we should assemble another force here to send to Joao.

Ainu can finally whip its granary, so do that...


War status... Joao has an archer, a sword, and an axe (and a galley but that's moot), in Gem city. We have troops spread out in our territory bordering gem city consisting of 4 swords, 3 spears, 3 axes, 3 cats, a chariot, and our medic chariot (they are spread out because I've been intercepting and killing Joao's stupid raids into our territory).

Gem city should be toast in 3 or 4 turns, depending on the cat effectiveness, and we are now #1 in troops, so we should be able to keep rolling towards Lisbon. We have some assorted troops in Memphis too, which I didn't move in case Joao showed up with more pillagers.

I ignored MoM and Elephantine, sorry. I am not very good with whipping stuff into wonders, and I was busy sending our workers west (and one south to get to Ainu).

I actually didn't whip that much, because I was alarmed at how low our population is compared to everyone else. I guess Groo can take some liberties in whipping things .

 

[Groogaroo]

Firstly, Nice set S.ilver & thanks for the swap.

Okay... Civ is installed and running on my laptop!!! Finally I can play Civ again! It feels like I havn't played for ages, I hope I'm not too rusty So if its still okay for me to play my set here's my 'Got It'.

Now, having read over the last few sets I'm still feeling a little out of the loop in this game but for this turnset it looks like the focus is prodominently the war with Joao, so we want to take Guimaraes, then march on to the capital right?

A couple of other things, The Great General now in Thebes, Are we settling this guy? Is Thebes going to be our HE?

Sorry if I'm going over things weve already discussed, I read through the posts but I don't it all sunk in... Information overload!

I will wait a while before playing although I don't think there is a huge amount to discuss, I just think I need to play a bit civ to brush away the cobwebs before I play my turnset!

 

[Jkaen]

I think the GG is getting merged with Woody, but I am not sure, I think the debate on what Thebes is meant to be doing has not really been resolved.

Main focus right now I think is to hit back at Joao, I am hoping we can rush through quickly to his capital and grab that before too long giving us another decent city to include in these conversations

 

[GatlingGun]

I think the GG is getting merged with Woody, but I am not sure, I think the debate on what Thebes is meant to be doing has not really been resolved.

Woody really doesn't need a GG... that is optional. All Woody needs are two more promotions... CombatI and MedicI. So we promote him to Spearman or Axeman, let him go along with the rest of the stack and kill things after the Cats smash them to tiny bits. After he racks up those promos, we will have two very good healers... which is fantastic... we can efficiently attack our foes with different stacks.

If we attach another GG to a unit sometime in the future, I'd say put both Woody and an Axeman/Swordsman on the same tile (they should be the only ones). Attach the GG to the Axe/Sword and Woody will get 10XP just from this... then we give that other unit the Tactics promo, or some such other useful thing.

We really should put that GG in Thebes ASAP... we don't have Theocracy or Vassalage. A settled GG is the only way we will build Level3 units at the moment.

I'm not sure who is dissenting about the HE in Thebes... so far, Grandad, S.ilver, Bleys, and myself are agreeing on this point... regardless of where we put it, it should be after we make peace with Joao.

 

[Jkaen]

Ok, looks like the decision has been made the Thebes is unit pump city, and I have no real issue with that so I guess GG gets settled there

 

[S.ilver]

Sorry about the lack of clarity. We got a GG on the first turn of my turnset, and I already settled it in Thebes. I got de Ruyter on the last turn of my turnset, so he hasn't done much yet.

I would actually settle him in a secondary military city, as a GG and a barracks is 5XP off the bat for level 3 units.

We need to keep putting out units as we fight Joao, and I think we should include some archers in that mix to better hold our cities, while we make our run at Joao's capital. I don't think we should plan to go farther than that, because it's already fairly far from our capital, and we don't have much intel on how his empire is laid out, other than that city.

 

[Jkaen]

I don't think we have any other good unit pump cities (hence the conversation about Thebes in the first place).

What do people think of:
a. Settling him straight in Thebes (to give a total of 2)
b. Melding him to a decent unit to produce a super trooper