Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day

[Hawk Chieftain]

Commando- Did you switch Seville & Toledo from building Marketplaces? I know the Nero said that we should build military until the war w/the Vikings is done, but I really think that we have it under control. I don't expect them to counter-attack.
Also, what is Barcelona building? Another sword? Maybe between swords, we could build some culture building. Same with Madrid. We won't need a lot of Settlers, b/c we'll just take over the Vikings towns.

 

[CommandoBob]

End of Turnset Thirteen Stats:

Science: Monotheism 9 turns
Treasury: 281 gold, +2 gpt; 4.3.3
Trade: -
Cities:

• Madrid (7): grows in 6 turns, settler in 1 turns, culture expansion in 378 turns.
• Barcelona (8): grows in 38, swordsman in 1 turns, 0 culture.
• Seville (7): grows in 1, marketplace in 13, 0 culture.
• Toledo (8): grows in 9, marketplace in 11, 0 culture.
• Ivory City (6): grows in 13, catapult in 1, 0 culture.
• Salamanca (5): grows in 7, spearman in 1, 0 culture.
• Murcia (4): grows in 7, galley in 2, 0 culture.
• Valencia (3): grows in 17, granary in 16, 0 culture.
• Zaragoza (1): grows in 7, walls in 18, 0 culture.
• Pamplona (2): grows in 10, worker in 1, 0 culture.
• Vitoria (3): grows in 5, walls in 5, 0 culture.
• Santander (4): grows in 10, barracks in 13, 0 culture.
• Jaen (3): grows in 7, barracks in 18, 0 culture.
• Logrono (3): grows in 10, galley in 5, 0 culture.
• Valladoid (2): grows in 18, galley in 1, 0 culture.
• Palma (1): grows in 5, barracks in 35, 0 culture.
• Cordoba (1): grows in 6, walls in 16, 0 culture.
• 17 cities

Military:

• 04 Archers, 0 in production
• 24 Swordsman, 01 in production
• 02 Warriors (obsolete)
• 09 Catapults, 01 in production
• 02 Galleys, 03 in production
• 01 Spearman, 01 in production
• 18 Workers, 01 in production
• 01 Settlers, 01 in production
• 02 Slaves

Total units: 61 Allowed units: 0 Army Support Cost: 61 gpt

Barracks built in:
Barcelona (Swordsman)
Toledo (Marketplace)
Murcia (Galley)
Barracks being built in:
Santander
Jaen
Palma

Blue Army (2 SE of Jaen) 6 vSwords, 3 rSwords.
Blue Army Total: 9 swords

Red Army North (E and 2 SE of Santander) 2 vSwords, 4 catapults.
Red Army South (3 SE of Santander) 5 vSwords, 1 rSword.
Red Army Support A (E and SE of Santander) 6 workers, 2 catapults.
Red Army Support B (E of Santander) 1 settler, 1 catapult.
Red Army Support C (SE of Santander) 2 workers.
Red Army Reserves (2 SE of Santander) 1 vSword, 3 rSword.
Red Army Total: 12 swords
7 'pults
8 workers
1 settler

Vikings: 45 gold, 12 cities, up Monarchy, Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering
English: 3 gold, 13 cities, up Monarchy

[IBT 110 AD the Pre-flight]
Vikings are researching Invention to get to their UU the Berserk (6A,2D,1M) a Longbowman replacement. This means our coastal cities are at risk of Viking raids, since the Zerks are very early Marines.
Also means one victory over us by a Zerk triggers a Viking Golden Age.

Spanish Armies 110 AD

Blue Army is fine.
Red Army is in disarray. Support Group A is totally unprotected from the Viking warrior due west of it. If SG-A is to be making roads, this is the wrong place. One tile southeast, on the hill, would be faster and not cross the river again.
No units to take out Birka, which gives us horses.
Front line has enough units, but we are not building enough replacements.
We are building too many galleys. For now, three galleys should be enough.
Some cities are building things when something better could be built, especially the newer cities. Some cities only have a few good choices, some have only bad choices. Need to go through each city and decide.

Considering making settlers in largest cities (Barcelona, Toledo, Seville and even Ivory City) to allow for lower luxury rate. Not sure.

City by city tweaking:
Cities:

• Madrid 8spt: leave at settler.
• Barcelona 10spt: leave at sword, switch to settler, then back to sword.
• Seville 8spt: marketplace -> settler, due in 4.
• Toledo 7spt: marketplace -> sword in 1, switch to settler, then back to sword.
• Ivory City 10spt: catapult -> sword, due in 2, keep making swords.
• Salamanca 5spt: spearman -> sword, due in 3.
• Murcia 3spt: galley -> sword, due in 2.
• Valencia 2spt: leave at granary.
• Zaragoza 1spt: walls -> temple, due in 28, needs to grow.
• Pamplona 1spt: leave at worker, sword next, maybe, it needs to grow.
• Vitoria 2spt: walls -> sword, due in 10, hope to change to horseman.
• Santander 1spt: leave at barracks.
• Jaen 2spt: leave at barracks.
• Logrono 2spt: galley -> sword, due in 5.
• Valladoid 3spt: -, keep the galley to fight Viking galley.
• Palma 1spt: barracks -> worker, due in 5.
• Cordoba 1spt: walls -> worker, due in 6.

Move worker near Santander clearing jungle into Santander. Had to stop, takes too long and gives no shields, unlike forest.
Hit Enter

Walls
As a general rule, walls are useless. When a city grows to size 6 they are not needed. However, some of our cities are isolated and slow growing, so the choices of what to build is not always clear cut. A wall for defense or a sword for protection or some culture making building? A wall is cheap and gives the illusion of defense. Our best defense is our military and we have enough cities scattered through the empire making swords and catapults to keep us safe from the occasional stray barbarian. We just need to be alert and protect our weak and defenseless cities.

Workers
I switched Cordoba and Palma to workers since it was their first build. I have gotten into the habit of making the first build of a city a worker. Since the city is usually not connected and workers are scarce, this worker spends his first few tasks around his home city. His first improvements will be ones that directly benefit his city, which makes it productive faster. Once the city is connected it makes it easier for this worker to get involved in larger projects.

Temples
I switched Zaragoza from walls to temple mainly in order to give Zaragoza a chance to grow. A second benefit is that Zaragoza picks up the iron ore on the first culture expansion. Plus it pushes our borders out towards the English that settled on our coastline.

Barracks
Jaen and Santander are both rather slow growing and slow building. I am not sure how wise it is for them to build barracks, but not really sure of what is a good build for them at this time. Both are connected to Madrid, so a worker is not the top priority. But both are close to the front lines and we may need the barracks to heal our wounded.
With war coming soon, I left these builds alone.

 

[CommandoBob]

[IBT Action]
Both galleys lost at sea.
Have an English Settler and Spear waltzing through Spain near Zaragoza, will leave Spain land next turn.
Viking settler pair heads into Birka.

Madrid, settler -> Settler, due in 5.
Toledo, sword -> Settler, due in 5.
Barcelona sword -> settler, due in 3.
Valladoid galley -> galley, due in 10.
Pamplona worker -> catapult, due in 20.


1 130 AD

Workers in Red Army Support C move SW, will road the hill
One worker from Santander joins Red Army Support C; insures the hill be road in with no waste.
Other worker heads north to join up with another worker to make road to Birka.
Settler near Santander renamed to SettlerForBirka, moves west into jungle.
Move all six worker of Red Army Support A southwest into Red Army North. Can make road on hill next turn.
Two swords of Red Army North move north to protect SettlerForBirka.
All six swords of Red Army South move northwest to join Red Army North.
From Red Army Reserves, one rSword moves north to protect catapult. Remaining units join Red Army North.
Worker from Pamplona west, south and west to be with fortified sword north of Birka.
vSword from Toledo heads south.
vSword from Barcelona heads southeast across river.
Galley moves out to shadow Viking galley.
Settler (Madrid) south across river.
Catapult south of Pamplona joins other catapult and sword on hill.
Workers south of Zaragoza finish what they were doing, head southwest to forest.
Worker southeast of Seville to BG south of Toledo.
Worker on mountain southwest of Logrono to grassland due south of Logrono. Worker already present, mining.

Trading
Spain needs Engineering to be able to cross rivers quickly. No one will trade.
We are at 4.3.3 -5gpt
Embassies:
Babylon (Annoyed): 88 gold
Ottomans (Polite): 55 gold
Arabia (Polite): 43 gold
Persia (Annoyed): 104 gold
Zululand (Annoyed): 71 gold

​

Save for the night.
Reopen and upgrade warriors to swords, 80 gold.

[IBT]
English want to trade their World Map for our World Map and 200 gold. No, thanks.
English settler pair moves east out of Spain.


2 150 AD

Workers in Red Army North start and finish road on hill.
Three other workers begin road on hill to connect that roaded hill to Santander, two turns.
vSword from Murcia to Vitoria.
Worker south of Jaen irrigates Wheat.
SettlerForBirka and two protecting vSwords move northeast to hill (original Red Army starting position).
vSword in Pamplona moves west, south and west to join sword and workers south and southeast of Vitoria.
Worker south of Toledo mines BG.
SettlerFromMadrid moves southeast, south and south (now south of Toledo).
vSword south of Barcelona southwest and southwest, across river.
rSword in Barcelona fortifies.
Galley south, south and southwest, adjacent to Viking galley.
rSword from Ivory City, southeast, south and south, next to river.
Worker south of Logrono makes road.
Two workers in forest between Zaragoza and Palma make road, three turns.
Move rSword and catapults that are due west of Santander northwest to original Red Army starting position.

Army Breakdown:
Blue Army (2 SE of Jaen) 6 vSwords, 3 rSwords.
Blue Army Total: 9 swords (unchanged)

Red Army (E and 2 SE of Santander) 5 vSwords, 4 rSwords, 6 catapults, 6 workers
Red Army Total: 9 swords, 6 catapults, 6 workers

Green Army North (south and southeast of Vitoria) 2 vSwords, 2 workers, 1 slave.
Green Army South (northwest and west of Santander) 2 vSwords, 1 rSword, 2 catapults, one settler.
Green Army Total: 5 swords, 2 catapults, 3 workers, 1 settler

Front line total: 23 swords, 8 catapults, 9 workers, 1 settler.

Have not seen any Viking Horses, which is good.
Trading
No trading for Engineering.

​

[IBT]

3 170 AD

Declare war on the Vikings, 170 AD.
England does not join us. Too bad for them.

Around Birka:
vSword (Green Army South) vs. vArcher on hill. vSword wins, but redlined.
Birka defended with rSpear and a vArcher southwest of the city.
Move Green Army South northwest to hill due east of Birka.
Move Green Army North west to grassland (easy road building).
Move vSword from Vitoria to Green Army North.

Around Odense:
vSword (Red Army) vs. eWarrior, fortified, in jungle. Wins with no damage.
Odense defended by rSpear.
Move rest of Red Army south to hill northeast of Odense.

Around Stavanger:
Move Blue Army west to mountain due north of Stavanger.
Stavanger defended by rPikeman, with worker due south of city.

Other moves:
Galley moves southeast, southeast and sights vGalley of the Vikings. Stops.
vSword from south of Barcelona arrives in Vitoria.
rSword west of Madrid crosses river, heading south.
Catapult from Toledo to Pamplona.
SettlerFromMadrid south, southwest and south, heading towards Santander/Odense.
rSword from Salamanca west, southwest and south, now north of Madrid.

Trading
No trading.

​

[IBT]
vArcher moves into Birka.
Worker moves into Stavanger.
Galley moves south, away from Spain.
Barcelona Settler -> Sword, due in 5.
Seville Settler -> Barracks, due in 5.

Viking Front Lines 190 AD

4 190 AD

Elizabeth not interested in beating up on the Viking.

Battle for Birka
Catapults go 1 for 2, reducing spear to 2/3, but either he recovered or two spears in city.
(Green Army South) vSword vs. rSpear, wins, at 2/4.
(Green Army North) vSword vs. rSpear, wins, at 2/4.
(Green Army North) vSword vs. rSpear (2/3), wins, at 3/4.
(Green Army North) vSword vs. vArcher, wins, at 2/4.
(Green Army South) rSword vs. rArcher, wins, at 2/3.
Birka is razed; we get two slaves, renamed to Viking1 and Viking2.
SettlerForBirka moves into ruins.
Let redlined vSword heal.
Two Workers north of Birka make road, English slave starts mining.
vSword in Vitoria moves towards Birka.

Birka Victory

Battle for Odense
Catapult 1/5, rSpear at 2/3, 2nd rSpear defends.
vSword vs. rSpear, wins, at 3/4.
vSword vs. rSpear (2/3) wins and Odense now speaks Spanish.
Odense (2) grows in 10, worker in 10.
Workers start and finish road on hill.
Move rSword from hill into Odense.
Move vSword from jungle into Odense.
Three other workers completed road to Santander, move as group to Odense.
Move 2 vSword and 3 rSwords through Odense to due south of city.
Leaves catapults and workers on hill, protected by vSword at 3/4.

Odense Victory

Battle of Stavanger
vSword vs. rPike wins with no damage.
vSword vs. rSpear wins with no damage.
Stavanger speaks Spanish.
Stavanger (1) grows in 10, worker in 10.
Move 1 rSword into Stavanger for crowd control.
Move 6 swords through Stavanger due south.

Stavanger Victory

Other moves
Galley moves down the coast 3, sights Viking galley.
SettlerFromMadrid arrives in Santander.
rSword near Madrid moves towards Pamplona.
SettlerFromBarcelona heads toward Pamplona.
SettlerFromSeville heads toward Pamplona.
Catapult in Pamplona goes to Santander.
rSword north of Madrid heads to Pamplona.
Trading
No deals on Engineering. Can get Mono for WM and 60 gold. We learn it in 2 turns, so not interested.
Vikings do not want to talk yet.


Lower Luxury to 20%, buy a clown in Toledo for two turns, until it makes settler.
Cannot lower slider or else we learn Mono in three turns, not two.
Increase Science to 50% and we learn Mono next turn, at -35 gpt. Done.
​

[IBT]
We learn Monotheism; now work on Engineering, due in 8 at current rate (which is too high).
Viking galley appears near Salamanca.
Other Viking galley heads south.


5 210 AD

Drop Science down to 30%, Engineering in 15, +1 gpt.
Move forward units of the Red Army towards Trondheim. (5 swords)
Move units through Odense and vacate city. It has a 4 to 10% chance of flipping.
SettlerForBirka found Teruel on the Birka ruins.
Teruel (1) grows in 10, horseman in 30.

Move leading units of Blue Army south into jungle. rMace due west and rArcher southwest.

Galley moves down the coast.
Two workers complete road between Zaragoza and Palma. Move south and then west to begin road to Santander.
Worker from Palma the two workers.
rSword from Ivory City goes to Salamanca, just in case the Viking try anything cute or funny.

Red Army catapults move through Odense towards Trondheim.

Green Army units heal. Send Catapults southeast to the Red Army.

Trading
Could get Feudalism from the Arabs for Mono and 100 gold.
The Arabs only have 11 gold. They will trade it and World Map for Monotheism. Everyone else has learned Monotheism, so I accept.
And does he know the world. Wow!
​

Mini Map 210 AD

[IBT]
Mace attacks vSword and loses, but redlines the vSword.
Galley off the north coast does nothing.
Other galley runs south along coast.
Settler and Spear enter Haried.
rSword heads to Odense.
rArcher moves to meet the forward elements of the Red Army.
rArcher near Blue Army moves east, as if it did see not them.

 

[CommandoBob]

6 230 AD

Green Army catapults move southeast.
Red Army workers build road south of Odense.
vSword (Red Army) vs. rArcher wins without damage.
Move one sword to support victorious unit.
Move catapults southeast toward Trondheim.
Other Red Army workers connect second Horse for Spain, due east of Odense.
Bulk of Blue Army moves south, including redlined unit (my mistake). Find rPike due south of new position.
Blue Army 'straggler' (a vSword) crosses river to be on same side of river as rArcher that did not attack earlier. Think it is heading to Copenhagen.
Galley continues south.
Worker from Cordoba move southeast to make road, then mine.
rSword in Salamanca stays put.

Trading
Viking still do not want to talk. I do not want to offer peace; I was just curious.

​

[IBT]
Stavanger riots; buy a clown.
rSword near Odense attacks rSword and loses, our unit unharmed.

7 250 AD

Three workers that connected the second horse move west through Odense into jungle, to connect to roads around Copenhagen.
rPike moved into the path of the Blue Army.
vSword vs. vPike, loses, is 2/4
vSword vs. vPike, loses, promotes Pike to elite, 3/5.
vSword vs. ePike, wins, at 2/4.
Blue Army moves forward; only two units at full health in Blue Army.
Galley skirts along the coast.
Worker makes road near Cordoba.
Red Army catapults move southwest.
vSword vs. rArcher, northeast of Trondheim, wins with no damage.
Two workers mine grassland near Odense, seemed safest move to make.

Toledo Settler -> Horseman, due in 7.
Vitoria Sword -> Horseman, due in 8.
Cordoba Worker -> Temple, due in 29.
Teruel Horseman -> Worker, due in 8.
Trading
Persia, Ottomans, Babylon and Zulus learned Theology this turn.
​

[IBT]
Saved for now 1am 12/14/05
Odense flips back to Vikings.
Settler pair leave Oslo, heading south.
rArcher vs. vSword northeast of Trondheim, archer wins, at 1/3. rArcher advances and 2nd rArcher reinforces.
Barbarians active near Valencia.

8 260 AD

Three workers begin road in jungle east of Santander.
Galley continues southward, ends south of Aarhus.

2nd Battle of Odense
rSword vs. rSpear, spear wins and promotes, at 3/4.
vSword vs. vSpear wins and promotes to Elite. Odense again speaks Spanish. Odense (1) grows in 10, worker in 10.

Northwest of Copenhagen, vSword vs. rArcher, sword wins but is redlined.
rSword from Logrono, northeast, northeast and north to fight barb-on-horse, wins with no damage.

Catapult in forward stack vs. 2 archer stack, 2 of 4 rArcher 1/3.
vSword (from second stack) vs. 1/3 rArcher, wins, with no damage.
rSword (from second stack) vs. 1/3 rArcher, wins, with no damage.
Workers from second stack join forward stack, make road next turn.
vSword and rSword fortify in forward stack.
Three workers in jungle west of Odense make road.

Five swords of Green Army head south, towards Copenhagen and Trondheim.
Wake rSword in Pamplona and sent towards the Red Army.
Wake vArcher and rArcher in Santander and send towards the Red Army.

Send vSword and rSword from Stavanger towards Blue Army.
All settlers stay put.
Worker south of Toledo heads towards Zaragoza to connect iron when Zaragoza expands.
rSword near Oslo heads west towards Trondheim.

Move what is left of Blue Army to hill southeast of Bergen. Bergen defended with vPike.
Trading

​

[IBT]
Persia lands settler pair north of Valencia. Not good.
Seville Barracks -> Sword, due in 4.
Viking settler pair southwest of Copenhagen, moving north.

9 270 AD

Road to Trondheim complete.
Trondheim protected by rSpear.

Catapults move adjacent to Trondheim.
rSword joins catapults adjacent to Trondheim.

Red Army - northeast of Trondheim. 6 catapults, 1 vSword, 2 rSword.
Red Army - two northeast of Trondheim, 1 catapult, 1 vSword, 1 rSword.

Green Army South (4 vSword, 1 rSword) move south.
Green Army North (2 vSword, 1 rSword) move south, following Green Army South.

Blue Army helpers move southeast.
Move Blue Army west to jungle. Plan to disconnect Bergen from iron.

Redlined vSword moves north into neutral land, will watch the settler pair.

Mining completed northwest of Teruel. One worker roads, one moves northwest to road.
Worker south of Jaen finishes irrigating, moves west to help Viking3 make road.
vSword from Barcelona moves southeast across river.
rSword from Salamanca heads toward Pamplona.
rSword moves toward barb camp.
Trading
Ragnar will talk, but I want Trondheim first. It has the Great Library.
​

[IBT]
Looked like an archer left Trondheim, but probably entered the town.

10 280 AD

Battle for Trondheim.
Catapult kills citizens. City now at 4.
Catapult kills citizens. City now at 3.
Catapult misses.
Catapult misses.
Catapult misses.
Catapult misses.
vSword vs. rSpear, sword wins, at 2/4.
rSword vs. rSpear, spear wins, at 2/3.
Fortify rSword and wait for reinforcements.

Green Army South and North both move south.

Blue Army helpers move southwest.
Blue Army moves onto iron on hill adjacent to Bergen.
Galley hangs around Aarhus, in prevent mode.
Worker reaches iron ore near Zaragoza.
rSword vs. Barbs, wins, promotes and 25 gold.

Cordoba connected; worker mines grassland.
Viking1 and Viking2 finish road, move southwest across river into forest for next road to connect to Copenhagen.
Viking3 irrigates.
Allow vSword south of Stavanger to heal.

Santander would revolt next turn, so luxury to 30%.

Blue Army on hill with iron adjacent to Bergen.
Blue Army - 2 rSwords, 1 vSword 2/4, 1 vSword 1/4
Blue Army total: 4 Swords

Green Army South, 2 Northwest of Odense, 2 vSword, 1 rSword
Green Army North, west of Odense, 4 vSword, 1 rSword
Green Army total: 8 swords

Red Army adjacent to Trondheim
1 vSword, 1 vSword 2/4, 2 rSwords, 6 catapults, 4 workers
Red Army reinforcements on the road Odense to Trondheim
1 eSword 4/5, 1 rSword, 1 vArcher, 2 catapults
Red Army reinforcement 2 southwest of Odense
1 vSword, 1 rSword
Red Army forces at Turnset 15, turn 1: 6 catapults, 4 swords
Red Army forces at Turnset 15, turn 3: 8 catapults, 8 swords, 1 archer



Trading

​

[IBT]



End of Turnset Fourteen Stats:

Science: Engineering 8 turns
Treasury: 177 gold, -12 gpt; 4.3.3
Trade: -
Cities:

• Madrid (7): grows in 6 turns, settler in 1 turns, culture expansion in 368 turns.
• Barcelona (6): grows in 4, swordsman in 4 turns, 0 culture.
• Seville (7): grows in 7, sword in 3, 0 culture.
• Toledo (6): grows in 3, horseman in 3, 0 culture.
• Ivory City (6): grows in 3, sword in 1, 0 culture.
• Salamanca (6): zero growth, sword in 5, 0 culture.
• Murcia (5): grows in 7, sword in 1, 0 culture.
• Valencia (3): grows in 7, granary in 6, 0 culture.
• Zaragoza (2): grows in 7, temple in 18, 0 culture.
• Pamplona (2): grows in 10, worker in 1, 0 culture.
• Vitoria (4): grows in 5, horseman in 5, culture expansion in 34 turns.
• Stavanger (1): zero growth, worker in 5, 0 culture.
• Santander (5): grows in 20, barracks in 1, 0 culture.
• Jaen (4): grows in 2, barracks in 8, 0 culture.
• Odense (1): grows in 8, worker in 8, 0 culture.
• Logrono (4): grows in 10, sword in 5, 0 culture.
• Valladoid (2): grows in 8, galley in 1, 0 culture.
• Palma (1): grows in 5, worker in 5, 0 culture.
• Cordoba (1): grows in 6, temple in 26, 0 culture.
• 20 cities

Military:

• 04 Archers, 0 in production
• 32 Swordsman, 06 in production
• 02 Warriors (obsolete)
• 09 Catapults, 01 in production
• 01 Galleys, 01 in production
• 00 Horseman, 02 in production
• 01 Spearman, 00 in production
• 21 Workers, 04 in production
• 05 Settlers, 01 in production
• 05 Slaves

Total units: 73 Allowed units: 0 Army Support Cost: 73 gpt

Vikings: ?? gold, ?? cities, up ??
English: 4 gold, 13 cities, up Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering
Ottomans: 82 gold, 9 cities, up Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology
Persia: 71 gold, 9 cities, up Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology
Babylon: 37 gold, 10 cities, up Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology
Zululand: 18 gold, 13 cities, up Monarchy, Feudalism
Arabia: 8 gold, 11 cities, up Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering, Theology

Culture:
Spain: 298, +4
England: 908, +26
Vikings: 1093, +15
Babylon: 1589, +35
Ottomans: 1802, +38
Arabia: 610, +8
Persia: 1703, +65
Zululand: 695, +23

And the save is >here<.

 

[CommandoBob]

These need to be considered in our next turnset.

• Science set to 0%, we need cash.
• Capture of Bergen, Copenhagen and Trondheim.
• Dealing with remaining Viking cities on the continent of Spain.
• Worker moves in newly acquired Spain.
• What to learn next

Science to 0%
I did not realize it until too late. We do not need to spend any more money learning Engineering. We need it, and we will have it in just three turns, with no more research.
How?
In Trondheim is the Great Library!

Early Battle Plans
In the map below I have sketched out our forces, the Blue, Green and Red Armies and their targets.

Battle map 280 AD

Blue Army
On turn 1, Blue disconnects the iron it is standing on. Bergen can no longer build pikes. Blue reinforcements, 2 swords, move southwest.
On turn 2, the reinforcements attack followed by the Blue Army. The pike, and I hope there is only one pike, will be tough. It looks like Bergen has a barracks, since the showing unit is a vPike. A few turns earlier, a vPike took out two Spanish swords.
This attack will be risky. Depending on how the attacks go (and this assumes they went badly) we want to keep at least one unit on this iron to deny it to the Vikings. Blue will have 4 healthy swords, but 3 of them are regular and only one a veteran. If Bergen is defended with only one vPike we are not too bad. If it has two vPikes, which we cannot know until we kill the first one, it is probably too strong to take with the units we have on hand. If the second unit is a spear our chances of victory are better.
This battle could go either way. Losing two swords to the pike earlier did not help. But we did keep that pike from going to another city.

Green Army
On turn 1, the Green Armies move west. On turn 2, they attack Copenhagen. We have not had units close to Copenhagen so we do not know if is defended by a spear or a pike. Pike or spear, it will not hold out long against 8 swords.

Red Army
The Red Army units next to Trondheim are not strong enough to take the city. The total offense is 4 swords, 1 vSword, 2 rSword and one injured vSword. Trondheim has at least two defenders. The catapults can bombard and weaken the defenders. The swords can fortify in case of counter attacks.

On turn 1, the Red Army units next to Trondheim stay put. The workers can irrigate. The other Red Army units move southwest. This will deny the cow to Trondheim for a turn. On turn 2 all units are adjacent to the city. On turn 3 they attack, led by an 8 catapult barrage, followed by 8 sword frontal assaults.

On turn 3 Trondheim should fall, the Great Library becomes a Spanish treasure and we learn four techs right away: Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering and Theology.

Viking Coastal Cities
After these conquests, we need time to allow our units to heal and for new units to arrive from the north. Soon we will need to complete what we have started. At this point the Vikings will have three or four cities for us to focus on: Aarhus, Reykjavik, Stockholm and maybe Bergen. These cities should receive most of our attention. We need to pay attention to Oslo also and send two units to make sure that Oslo cannot use the iron next to it. We may also want to send two units to watch over Hareid. But Oslo and Haried are sideshows; the main action will be with the larger cities on the south coast.

For Stockholm, we want to attack from the hill east of the city. For Reykjavik and Aarhus we have to attack from either jungle or forest. I think we can safely assume two units in each of the coastal cities,

Worker Moves

Initially we will need to connect to each of our new cities, if only for a short time. Trondheim will either become our Forbidden Palace or Palace for real. We need the Great Library for its science boost and the culture it will give us. But it will be very corrupt. If we get a Great Leader, we should build the Forbidden Palace in Trondheim. This is unlikely; we have only one elite unit, a slightly wounded sword.

With no Great Leader, we will have to jump our palace to Trondheim and build the FP in either Barcelona or Seville. We do not do the jump until the FP is built. This will give us time to resettle around Trondheim and set up our rings. Which means that some Viking cities will have to ‘retired’.

So what should the workers do? Improve the cow near Trondheim, connect to luxuries and connect cities. And build roads to England.

What to Learn Next?
The effects of the Great Library last until Education. Theology is a prerequisite for Education, so someone could be learning that now. We hope they are learning Invention instead. Someone is sure to be learning Chivalry. So I think we should try to learn Printing Press and trade it around. This is a bit risky. If two civs know Education, we learn it also and the Great Library benefit is over. Both Chivalry and Invention lead to stronger units (Knights and Musketman) while Education leads to better boats. I know where I would go.

Is Printing Press the best choice? I am not sure. It is a tech I ignore and it is not on the fast track through the Middle Ages. It seems to be the best choice, but it could backfire.

 

[nerovats]

Dropping science is good, as we´ll capture GLib and we can get techs for peace.
Don´t leave units in captured cities as they might flip. After next 2 turns or so Vikings will be crippled beyond repair. Don´t wait to continue war by healing to much, as it´ll let the Viking build more defence as well. During the next turnset (if all goes well) I would prepare to invade english in one go. When we have complete control over this continent the world is ours. Don´t worry about culture for now. If cities have high flip risks it might be better to raze and replace them, or capture, sell buildings and abandon. If you gona write this much please also keep hit ratio, when counting from C-Bob´s log he made 21-5 .

Oh and keep fingers crossed for a leader .

 

[CommandoBob]

If you gona write this much please also keep hit ratio, when counting from C-Bob´s log he made 21-5 .

Is the hit ratio just wins/losses? I remember thinking (an in-and-out kind of thought) of reporting something like that.

 

[nerovats]

Yes just note add all kills of military units up. It will be a good marker to see if warfare was done wisely (not too risky). I wars in which you just want to get some cities or hope to get techs for peace this ratio is important as it influences the AI willingness to gift stuff. When using your forces wisely you should have no problem getting 3 or 4 to 1, when have same class units like we have now. As we were about the same size as the vikings when war started we probably had more or less the same amount of uniots, and thje same capacity to produce new ones. The ratio C-Bob got will ensure we will emerge victoriously.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

I've got the save, will play tomorrow.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Commando- the save link doesn't work. I said I got the save too quickly.

 

[CommandoBob]

My bad. I thought I uploaded 'Nero04_280AD.SAV'. What I had uploaded was 'Nero04_280_AD.SAV'. I added the extra underscore to make the AD and BC easier to see.

Should be fixed now.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Pre-flight- Science to 0%, we are +38gpt
IBT- Persians found Tyre on our continent
Madrid builds Settler<Temple (6 turns)
Ivory City builds Sword<Sword (3 turns)
Valladolid builds Galley<Spearman (7 turns)
Murcia builds Sword<Sword (8 turns)
Turn 1- Move army closer Trondheim
Try bombarding Tronsheim, failed on all attempts
Move armies into position for attack
IBT- Persia upset that I’m in their territory
Lose a sword to an archer (0-1)
Kill an archer (1-1)
Turn 2- Attack on Trondheim, 2 spears go down, 2 swords killed (3-3)
Cats take 3rd spear to redline
Settler joins Odense, now size 3
Attack on Bergen, lose 3 swords to 1 pike (4-6)
Attack on Copenhagen, kill 2 spears, capture town (6-6), build Barracks (40 turns)
IBT- Seville builds Sword <Sword (4 turns)
Toledo builds Horseman<Horseman (4 turns)
2 Galleys sunk
Turn 3- Attack on Trondheim, kill 3 spears, lose a sword, city & The Great Library are ours! (9-7) Build Barracks (40 turns)
Settler joins Tefuel, now size 3
IBT- We learn Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering, Invention, and Theology
Persians building Leo’s Workshop
Move science to 30%, learn Chivalry in 19 turns
Turn 4- Moved swords to Trondheim, to begin attack on Stockholm
IBT- Trondheim is rioting, switch to clowns
Stavanger can’t build a Worker, will send Settler to join city
Teruel builds Worker< Barracks (40 turns)
Barcelona builds Med Infantry< MI (5 turns)
Ivory City builds MI< Aqueduct (10 turns)
Palma builds Worker<Temple (30 turns)
Vitoria builds Horseman<Horseman (8 turns)
Turn 5- Vikings moved Galley towards Murcia, move MI & Horseman to protect for landing
IBT- Madrid builds Temple<Library (10 turns)
Vikings move Galley to Barcelona
Trondheim stopped rioting
Valencia builds Granary<Harbor (40 turns)
Turn 6- 2 turns away from attacking Stockholm
IBT- Ottomans building Sistine Chapel
Logrono builds MI<Harbor (20 turns)
Toledo builds Horseman<Horseman (4 turns)
Salamanca builds MI<Harbor (16 turns)
Turn 7- Sword kills Archer (10-7)
Founded Almeria. Building Temple (30 turns)
Trade Invention to English for WM & 50 gold
Trade Invention to Zulus for WM & 28 gold (all they had)
Trade Engineering to Arabs for WM & 10 gold (all they had)
Vikings will offer 90 gold + 2gpt for peace, not good enough.
IBT- Jaen builds Barracks<Temple (15 turns)
Odense builds Worker<Barracks (40 turns)
Murcia loses productivity, change economy to 3.3.4
Seville builds MI<Library (7 turns)
Turn 8- 3 Cats bomb Stockholm, failed
Kill 3 spears, lose 1 sword. Capture Stockholm. Build Barracks (40 turns) (13-8)
Attack on Oslo. Lose 2 swords. Horse & Sword redlined (13-10)
IBT- We love the Queen in Madrid
Rioting in Trondheim & Stockholm, give Stockholm some clowns.
Order restored in Murcia
Change Stavanger build to Temple (20 turns)
Turn 9- Changed economy to 4.3.3
IBT- Trondheim is overthrown to the Vikings.
Zaragoza builds Temple<Library (27 turns)
Barcelona builds MI<MI (5 turns)
Valladolid builds Pike<Harbor (20 turns)
Turn 10- Change economy back to 3.3.4

End of turn stats:
Almeria(size 1)<Temple (27 turns), will grow in 2 turns
Barcelona(7)<MI (5 turns), will grow in 14 turns
Copenhagen(4)<Barracks (32 turns)
Cordoba(2)<Temple (16 turns),will grow in 16 turns
Ivory City(6)<Aqueduct (5 turns)
Jaen(6)<Temple (9 turns), will grow in 7 turns
Logrono(5)<Harbor (17 turns), will grow in 10 turns
Madrid(7)<Library (6 turns), will grow in 1 turn
Murcia(6)<MI (rioting)
Odense(3)<Barracks (38 turns), will grow in 10 turns
Palma(1)<Temple (25 turns), will grow in 5 turns
Pamplona(2)<Worker (1 turn), will grow in 10 turns
Salamanca(6)<Harbor (13 turns)
Santander(5)<Temple (15 turns), will grow in 10 turns
Seville(8)<Library (5 turns), will grow in 4 turns
Stavanger(1)<Temple (19 turns)
Stockholm(2)<Barracks (rioting)
Teruel(3)<Barracks (35 turns), will grow in 5 turns
Toledo(7)<Horseman (1 turn), will grow in 13 turns
Valencia(4)<Harbor (23 turns)
Valladolid(3)<Harbor (20 turns)
Vitoria(5)<Horseman (3 turns), will grow in 5 turns
Zaragoza(3)<Library (27 turns), will grow in 17 turns

Units- 3 Settlers, 25 Workers, 3 Archers, 1 Spearman, 21 Swords, 3 Horseman, 1 Pike, 8 Cats, 6 MI’s

Culture- 350 points Madrid has Palace, Vitoria & Zaragoza have Temples

Techs- we are even will all civs. Researching Chivalry for 12 turns.

Economy- 367 gold. Losing 22gpt.

For next turn set, retake Trondheim. I have 2 swords near the city, so that should be enough to retake it. Continue to build up military near Oslo & Bergen. Maybe take out the Oslo iron. Bring the MI’s down to those spots to battle against Pikes. Watch out for Galley near Salamanca, it could finally land some units. Continue building culture up with Harbors, Markets, and Libraries. You can change any builds for Temples to those 3.
3 Swords & 3 Cats are positioning to attack Reyjavik, maybe 2 turns away

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Screenshots.

 

[CommandoBob]

Downloaded the save and images; looks like Bergen was tougher than I thought; Trondheim revolting is not good, but it is somewhat expected.

Will analyze save and post plans later today (I hope!).

 

[nerovats]

Ha da little time to look at the save. We we're unlucky with Bergen, to bad, now just pillage the iron and hold.

There's an undefended stack of cat's and workers just outside Trondheim, may I suggest to move them to the sword?

Don't leave units in cities, as most cities have a huge flip chance.

We're building lot's of buildings while we don't have enough units. General rule is : keep building military until you are 110% sure you won the war.

Also try to regroup the army, since there are several settlers in the south raze all remaining cities and replace them.

When changing back to units we might be able to take on english in one blow and take them out before their cities get over size 6.

Vikings will offer Bergen now, but waiting 20 turns will make some cities flip back I'm afraid. Option could be abandoning the high risk cities, replace them, make peace for Bergen. Regroup and finish the job after 20, or maybe better take a bite out of england first.

 

[nerovats]

Here's what I would do:

Spoiler :

Change all builds to military, also some more cats.

Move cats and all but 1 worker to next to Trondheim. Leave thwe worker for bait. (Trondheim will probably rush a spear and mybe we can lure one spear out leaving just 1 in the city. Move the sword from Copenhagen toward Trondheim. Abandon Copenhagen and Stockholm. Move Units near Stockholm towards Reykjavik.

Next turn pillage the iron near Bergen, swing cats at Trondheim, hope to take it with the sword or wait 1 turn for the other sword to join, and take it next tun.

After getting Trondheim, make peace for Bergen abandon Bergen and replace by the settler north of it. Replace Copenhagen and Stockholm with the 2 other settlers. Depending on flip chance we could Trondheim as well, just rush a settler somewhere in the south.

Regroup and take on the english asap, try to get the viking to join us before they join the english.

 

[CommandoBob]

End of Turnset Fifteen Stats:

Science: Chivalry 12 turns
Treasury: 367 gold, -22 gpt; 3.3.4
Trade: -
Cities:

• Madrid (7): grows in 1 turns, market in 6 turns, culture expansion in 177 turns.
• Barcelona (7): grows in 14, MI in 5 turns, 0 culture.
• Copenhagen (4): zero growth, barracks inn n 32, 0 culture.
• Seville (8): grows in 4, library in 5, 0 culture.
• Almeria (1): grows in 3, temple in 27, 0 culture.
• Toledo (7): grows in 13, horse in 1, 0 culture.
• Ivory City (6): grows in 9999, aqueduct in 5, 0 culture.
• Salamanca (6): zero growth, harbor in 13, 0 culture.
• Stockholm (2): zero growth, barracks in 9999, 0 culture.
• Murcia (6): zero growth, MI in 9999, 0 culture.
• Valencia (4): zero growth, harbor in 23, 0 culture.
• Zaragoza (3): grows in 17, library in 27, culture expansion in 4 turns.
• Pamplona (2): grows in 10, worker in 1, 0 culture.
• Vitoria (5): grows in 5, horse in 3, culture expansion in 24 turns.
• Stavanger (1): zero growth, temple in 19, 0 culture.
• Santander (5): grows in 10, temple in 15, 0 culture.
• Jaen (6): grows in 7, temple in 9, 0 culture.
• Odense (3): grows in 10, barracks in 38, 0 culture.
• Logrono (5): grows in 10, harbor in 17, 0 culture.
• Valladoid (3): zero growth, harbor in 20, 0 culture.
• Palma (1): grows in 5, temple in 25, 0 culture.
• Cordoba (2): grows in 16, temple in 16, 0 culture.
• Teruel (3): grows in 5, barracks in 35, 0 culture.
• 23 cities

Military:

• 03 Archers, 00 in production
• 21 Swordsman, 00 in production
• 08 Catapults, 00 in production
• 03 Horseman, 02 in production
• 01 Pikeman, 00 in production
• 06 Medieval Infantry, 02 in production
• 01 Spearman, 00 in production
• 25 Workers, 01 in production
• 03 Settlers, 00 in production
• 09 Slaves (?)

Total units: 71 Allowed units: 0 Army Support Cost: 71 gpt

Barracks built in:
Barcelona
Seville
Toledo
Santander
Jaen
Murcia

Barracks being built in:
Copenhagen
Stockholm
Odense
Teruel
Palma

Current Builds:

• Marketplace - 1 (Madrid)
• MI - 2 (Barcelona and Murcia)
• Horse - 2 (Toledo and Vitoria)
• Worker - 1 (Pamplona)
• Barracks - 5 (Copenhagen, Stockholm, Odense, Teruel and Palma)
• Library - 2 (Seville and Zaragoza)
• Temple - 6 (Almeria, Stavanger, Santander, Jaen, Palma and Cordoba)
• Aqueduct - 1 (Ivory City)
• Harbor - 4 (Salamanca, Valencia, Logrono and Valladoid

In the handoff I may have over stressed culture. While I am concerned about, it is something to plan for. But first, we need to remove the Vikings and the English from the land will be Spain.

We need more military units to reinforce and replace the ones we have in the field. Our most productive cities will switch to military units. If we have MI, so will the English. And perhaps the Vikings.

We need to get Trondheim back and soon. We need to disconnect the Viking from any and all iron. We may have to starve Bergen and auto raze it.

We need to get military units facing England and soon. We need to plan our remaining attacks on the Vikings in such a way to have our troops ready to jump all over England.

I tend to be a builder, and this is a time to build our empire outwards. Later we will come back and focus on building our empire into the stars.


Planning to Win
We need a plan to win. This has been a constant problem for us, because we are coming from levels where planning was not really needed. Well, now we are in the big leagues and we are getting our beat badly.

What I suggest is a four step plan. Step 1: that as the war(s) wind down we switch either Barcelona or Seville from units to the Forbidden Palace. Step 2: When that is completed, we plan to move our palace from Madrid to Trondheim via a palace jump. In order for the palace jump to be effective, we will need to decide where to place new cities around Trondheim and at what ring. I tend to favor rings of 4, but that may not be the best for us.
Step 3: remove the English and Vikings from our land.
Step 4: execute the palace jump.

If we get a Great Leader, then we build the FP in Trondheim (details pending) and save us some work.

We may not have all our cities in place before we jump, but we need some. We may be able to keep some current Viking cities; I would have to look to be sure. We may at war when we jump, but I hope not.

Once we are at peace, we can focus on building libraries and getting our research up to speed. We may need to engage in some pointy-stick diplomacy and keep the New World in a constant state of warfare and thus prevent fast scientific advancement over there.

 

[nerovats]

I think, what about science, forgot to mention it as well in my spoiler, but there seems just a single strat obvioius to me...

 

[CommandoBob]

I think, what about science, forgot to mention it as well in my spoiler, but there seems just a single strat obvioius to me...

Well, what occurs to me is to use our military might and beat everyone else down to two or three cities. We would need to be careful not to have a Domination victory, so we would not want to eliminate all our neighbors. We would want to reduce them in size to the point where they would be a pest and not a problem.

We might be able to start wars between our neighbors, which would slow down their science.

I think we can learn two or three more techs from the Great Library and then its effects will expire. I am guessing that by the time we solve the 'English problem' the GLib will have run dry. Which should be close to the time that our own research begins to kick in.

 

[CommandoBob]

Rebuilding around Trondheim may be easier than we expected. It seems that the Viking used an RCP of 5 to place their cities.

Trondheim 380 AD RCP 5

Using a ring of 5, these cities stay in place and do not need to be razed: Reykjavik (5), Copenhagen (4), Odense (3), Oslo (3), and York (6). These five cities are on ring 1. Stockholm would have to be relocated one or two tiles to the southeast.
On ring 2 are Teruel (3), Santander (5), Coventry (4) and Hastings (6). Bergen would move and so would Stavanger. Haried would have to go, which leaves a gap on the coast between Santander, Odense and Coventry. One hundred culture points in Odense would claim that land for Spain. Newcastle would need to move east one tile.

But by using a ring of 5, we start with nine cities on the first and second rings, which means they will be very productive.

Two down sides exist. Some of these cities we have yet to capture, so we cannot rejoice too much now. And secondly, most of the Viking cities are surrounded by jungle, so it will take some time and many worker turns to make them productive.

Plus, we really want a Great Leader to rush the FP in Trondheim, for then ring placement around Trondheim is less important. The distance from Madrid to Trondheim is 22 tiles. Any city that is ten tiles from Trondheim and more than eleven tiles from Madrid would be considered at Rank 1 on the corruption calculation. So any city inside the second ring, no matter what their distance from Trondheim, would be treated as being on the first ring.

CivAssistII Cities

Compare the distance from capital to the waste and corruption rates. The further from the capital the greater the waste and corruption. But for cities the same distance from the capital, the waste and corruption are the same. Every city at a distance of 4 has 11% waste and corruption. Cordoba is 7 from the capital and its corruption is 36%. The five cities at a distance of 8 all have a corruption of 41%.

With a Forbidden Palace, every city that is closer to the FP than the capital is placed on rank 1, which in our case is 4 tiles and 11% corruption. Without the FP, these new cities would be useless for production, having over 90% corruption.