Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day

Just a quick question Nero:
Suppose our start wasn't on a river or without access to fresh water, then would we have to mine the tiles which we irrigated?
Also would it be feasible to irrigate a grassland or bonus grassland because it wouldn't give us the bonus under Despotism anyway would it?
 
If you don't have access to fresh water, make sure to get it, improve maybe a couple of tiles with mines, but scout to find it.
Irrigating grass land wil not help in despo, most people stick to irrigate brown (plains) mine green (grassland).

We could pick just one of the saves on of us played, we start new. Would like some more toughts on dotmaps first.
 
I will create a dotmap once I get home from work (five hours from now).

Five cities, RCP 4 ?

And one of just cherry-picking five city sites. This will be harder for me because I do not plan ahead far enough. I find a tool and use it, usually improperly, until either I learn to use it rightly or, most often, someone shows me how to use it rightly.


@Hawk Chieftain: The idea is that we select someone's first 20 turns for our start and begin from that point.

Can you start the discussion and telll us which one you like best and why? Even if it seems like anyone else could look at the game and pick the best start, the key is why do you think it is the best. Or if not the best, then why it is better than the other starts.

And you do not have to go into a lot of detail on why you like it. A couple of sentences will do.

(You are the lucky one. You do not have to feel guilty about why you think your start is the best; unlike everyone else, including me.:crazyeye: )
 
CommandoBob said:
I do not plan ahead far enough.

That exactly the biggest problem for most people whom do not get beyond regent. Civ is a startegy game, like chess. You need a plan.

Why should we tell which start is best in a particular order? It'is important to tell why something is better or not, but everyone can do that in their own time. We should pick a start tomorrow to get things running. Then normal scedule. I will post a roster tomorrow too.
 
nerovats said:
Azzaman why did you go for BW and why did you use specialists? As BW is a starting tech for a lot of civs we´re bound to meet someone who alrteady knows it, and should be able to trade. A clown is a very expensive way to make a citizen happy. Adjusting the lux slider is a beter option. On emperor you hardly get a bonus against barbs, so running into a hut that close might not be a good idea unless there´s some more protection.


I went for bronze first because ithought iron would be useful if we were near any aggressive civs. And the spears could provide a better defense against any barbs that might attack.
also, i forgot that scientist dont provide as much help in PTW as conquests. and i wanted to keep sci at full.
I was hoping that it wouldnt be barbs coming out of the hut, but unfortunately it was, but my other warrior was just close enough to Madrid to still protect it.
 
I know that some of us have C3C, others only PTW.

For those with C3C, a game saved in C3C cannot be opened by PTW. To play a game in PTW you must open PTW from the Start Menu. PTW is also installed with C3C. If you open a PTW game from C3C, it cannot be saved back into PTW.

Here is the thread I started on this subject, Save vs Save vs Save. It explains the technical issue in more detail.
 
Here are my turns until 3000BC:
Turn 1 (4000BC)- settled Madrid on same spot, started Warrior
- moved science to 10%, started Writing
- moved Worker to Wheat
Turn 2(3950BC)- Worker irrigated Wheat
Turn 3(3900BC)- nada
Turn 4(3850BC)- nada
Turn 5(3800BC)- nada
Turn 6(3750BC)- Worker build road on Wheat
- Madrid in unrest, move luxury to 30%
Turn 7(3700BC)- nada
Turn 8(3650BC)- Warrior/Settler (15 turns)
Turn 9(3600BC)- move Worker NW, move Warrior N
Turn 10(3550BC)- Worker irrigates Plains
- Warrior N
- Madrid culture's expands
Turn 11(3500BC)- Warrior N
Turn 12(3450BC)- Warrior N, find the ocean
Turn 13(3400BC)- Warrior W
Turn 14(3350BC)- Warrior W
- Worker roads Plains
Turn 15(3300BC)- Warrior S
Turn 16(3250BC)- Warrior SW
Turn 17(3200BC)- Warrior SW, on gold
- Worker move E, then NE
Turn 18(3150BC)- Worker irrigates Plains
- Warrior S
Turn 19(3100BC)- Settler/Warrior (5 turns)
- Settler move N
- Warrior S, pop goody hut, deserted
Turn 20(3050BC)- Settler N
- Warrior S
3000BC - Warrior W
- Settler N
 
Here is my 3000BC Screenshot:
 
I have created three dot maps for us to study and learn from. The first one is for an RCP of 4, the second an RCP of 3 and the third is just trying to select the best sites around the capital.

RCP = 4
RCP4_3000BC_Dotted2.jpg

City 1 – Red
Good: The immediate advantage from this city is the Ivory. More Happy citizens means less rioting. And less Luxury Tax, more for Income or Science. It is also on the north coast, so we could be galleys and such to explore this landmass and find other civs. I would plan to road NE from the capital, then N, and N again, which connects Red City and the Ivory, both at one time.​
Bad: needs an aqueduct. Has two mountains in its initial nine tiles. Also has unknown terrain.​

City 2 – Blue
Good: Plenty of water, plenty of food. Coastal city that opens to the West and SW seas. I do not think this is a lake. Attackers from the west must cross the river, so any defensive units are stronger.​
Bad: wastes a flood plain. Must cross a river to get troops to it, which means two turns to reinforce.​

City 3 – Pink
Good: Just like Blue City, it has plenty of water and is a coastal city, on the east side of Spain. It is barely a coastal city, but barely is good enough. It has grassland and forests around it.​
Bad: One mountain, one hill and one desert in the starting nine tiles. Takes two river crossings to get here from the capital, which is not as bad as it sound. From the capital, S to cross river and end the first turn. Second turn, SE (1/3 movement, SE (1/3 movement) which leaves 1/3 movement remaining and that will allow the unit to cross the second river.​

City 4 – Baby Blue
Good: Not much to recommend it, just that it fills a gap to the NW. This is a defensive city. It is built on a hill. It is built to keep others out. It could be productive later, but at first it will just limp along and grow slowly.​
Bad: No fresh water for good growth. Hills.​

City 5 – Orange
Good: Built on a hill, good defense. Plenty of fresh water, good growth. Looks like a lot of green around this city.​
Bad: Must make a road through a forest, takes longer than on a plain.​

City 6 – White
Good: Lots of green around. Coastal city.​
Bad: No fresh water. Must road through a mountain, a very long chore.​
City 7 – Gray
Good: Secures us Incense.​
Bad: very far away. Requires the White City to insure some sort of protection. Lots of unknown land around the city.​

RCP = 3
RCP3_3000BC_Dotted2.jpg


With an RCP of 3 our cities are closer to each other and can better support each other in a time of war. They also tend to overlap each other. The biggest difference between the RCP 4 and RCP 3 is the number of coastal cities. With RCP 4 we had four coastal cites (Red, Blue, Pink and White). With RCP 3 we have two coastal cities (Blue and Green). Is this critical? I do not know.

Both of these involve a major effort to get and keep the Incense. In both RCP 4 and 3, the Incense tile is a city spot. But to protect it means building a series of cities out to it. In RCP 4 it meant one city, White. In RCP 3 it means two cities, Green and Purple.

No RCP, just picking good spots.
SpanishEmpire3000BCDotted.jpg


If RCP were not an issue, here is how I would select cities. This is basically the same as RCP 4 but with two notable differences. Blue city is one tile closer to the capital and there is no defensive city to the NW of the capital. The Orange City has been moved NW by one and is now Baby-Blue.

All three of these dot maps have emphasized supporting the Gray dot of the Incense city. My sense of priority in each of these is the same
  • Get the Incense. (future happiness)
  • Get the Ivory, both if possible. (current happiness)
  • Build a coastal city to the SW of the capital (exploration and contacts)
  • Build cities, two or three, to the Incense city. (create a southern barrier and finally take advantage of the incense)

As always, this is open for discussion.
 
I suggest we keep playing from my save. Roster will be:
Azzaman333
CommandoBob
BeefBayford
Hawk Chieftain
I´ll post my dotmap later today, gives you some more time to ponder on it yourselves. We still must decide what to build next, where to settle next citie(s). Then Azzaman can start playing (form my save).

@C-Bob I´m a litle confused from your post, what´s your suggestion? I think the your blue city is on a lake.
 
I was not trying to present suggestions.

I was trying to show options.

If we use RCP 4, then here are some sites that look good. If we use RCP 3, then here are others. Or, if we ignore RCP, then these sites look good.

My thinking was that people would examine the maps and say, 'That (Any-Color) City is in a good spot, but if it were 1 tile NE it would be better because...'

The maps are starting places for discussion.

Suggestions
Starting from CommandoBob's game, I 1) would put the goody-hut settler on the incense, 2) change the capital from warrior to settler and place a city to get at least one ivory 3) have both the capital and the incense city make warrior and settlers to put cities between them and 4) build workers to get the cities connected.

Starting from nerovats' game, I 1) would place a settler on/near the ivory and 2) place a city to SE, on the river and adjacent to the coast. This gives four cities, two coastal, all rather close together.

Starting from BeefBayford's game, I 1) would place a settler on/near the ivory and 2) place a city to SW, on the coast. This gives four cities, one coastal, all rather close together.

Starting from azzaman333's game, I 1) would place a settler on/near the ivory, 2) place a city to SW, on the coast and 3) place a city on the river to SE. This gives four cities, one coastal, all rather close together.

Starting from Hawk Chieftain's game, I 1) would place that settler 1NE on the coast, then road back to the ivory, 2) place a city to SW, on the coast and 3) place a city on the river to SE. This gives four cities, one coastal, all rather close together.
 
@nerovats: Both Hawk Chieftain and I had problems keeping our citizens happy. Before we build anymore cities, can you give some pointers on keeping the natives happy and productive?
 
Everybody had problem with happyness, unless they would have managed not to grow in 20 turns. Cheapest way (for now) is up the lux slider. In this case 10% for size two 30% for size 3 if I remember correctly.

We'll start from my save as I don't like the free settler, to much luck.
 
Nero- Where is your save? I looked at our past entries, and couldn't find it.
 
@Azzaman, if you wanted some attackers quick, warrior code would be a faster option. Going after iron working, might just prove to be very expensiv when there's no iron. Archers don't need resource. There are a lot of possible iron tiles nearby so it seems reasonable we should get at least one.
 
nerovats said:
We'll start from my save as I don't like the free settler, to much luck.

Don't I know it!

If only it could have been the first goody-hut.:D

Q: Are there any tatics or exploits that we should avoid? I know the Game Of The Month has some things that are allowed and things that are not allowed. Are those 'the rules' that we should use?
 
Yes there are like unwritten rules, but am not that good at thinking of examples, will give it some thought. Will basically be same as for GOTM's. In our case we don't want the Great Library as well. Will force us to do some extra work.
 
Can't wait to get stuck into this game now should be fun! Play well everyone don't be shy about asking questions to our host, he knows what he's talking about :goodjob:
 
We´ll here´s my dotmap, put it up as poiler so if people still want to make their own they can do so with an open mind. Numbers ar for priorities, colour just to be able to tell them apart. We should also settle towards the incense but could not fit that on this screenshot. We need to do more exporing to be able to tell where to settle.
For next turnsets I think we need to focus on growth, get settlers, workers and couple of warriors. Settlers will need escorts now, since they might encounter barbs.
Spoiler :
nero04.jpg
 
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