New BETA Version - 4.4.2 (December 31, 2023)

[azum4roll]

You're using mods that add additional CS. VP does NOT have more CS than vanilla yet.

 

[aamatniekss]

Alright, so here's my findings from trying the 4.4.2 again.
Deleted civ 5 in steam, deleted the previous folders of civ 5 in steam and my games. Double checked my steam workshop, no subscribed items.
Reinstalled civ 5 on same SSD where my games/my documents is. Launched it once. Then quit and installed vox populi 4.4.2 double checked so it installs in correct locations, everything works.
Entered game, set settings same as previously - Pangea, huge, emperor, random civs, standard speed, all default, except couple settings in advanced changes, check screenshot.
Launched game, sent out scouts in all directions, found 1 city state in a huge area. was wondering if theres a faster way to reveal the map, found debug option in config.ini. Enabled that tried to reveal all on that map, saw that 3 city states were spawned.
Started a new game with same settings different map, terra for VP. Same thing revealed all, except theres not a single city state. noticed that there's a weird thing in the advanced settings city state slider that if select 'huge map' it gives you 12 civs and 24 city states. but the city state slider in advanced only goes up to 20, if you remove the 24 thats default, you cant get back up to it, it caps at 20. So I tried with huge map, 12 civs, and like 9 city states random number. Still no city states, didnt change anything.
Then wondered and tried all settings different, quick speed, picked a civ, standard map size, disabled every single advanced option and selected yet another different map type this time the communitu modded map thats included. Still no city states.
Also i tested it both on my laptop and my stationary computer( i play on both of them often and with cloudsaves) on both city states don't spawn, so it didnt matter if its on 1 or 2 ssd, or the pc doesnt matter at all seemingly. To me it just feels like the new version is bugged, because this doesnt happen in 4.2.7 or 3.7.12.
Here's some screenshots.

In any case, good luck on solving this weird thing. I'll probably be just reinstalling back to 3.7.12 and sticking with that as it felt nice enough when I was just playing it. Gonna check back in a few months if the new/new versions have fixed it for me. Keep up the good work!

 

[Kis121]

Alright, so here's my findings from trying the 4.4.2 again.
Deleted civ 5 in steam, deleted the previous folders of civ 5 in steam and my games. Double checked my steam workshop, no subscribed items.
Reinstalled civ 5 on same SSD where my games/my documents is. Launched it once. Then quit and installed vox populi 4.4.2 double checked so it installs in correct locations, everything works.
Entered game, set settings same as previously - Pangea, huge, emperor, random civs, standard speed, all default, except couple settings in advanced changes, check screenshot.
Launched game, sent out scouts in all directions, found 1 city state in a huge area. was wondering if theres a faster way to reveal the map, found debug option in config.ini. Enabled that tried to reveal all on that map, saw that 3 city states were spawned.
Started a new game with same settings different map, terra for VP. Same thing revealed all, except theres not a single city state. noticed that there's a weird thing in the advanced settings city state slider that if select 'huge map' it gives you 12 civs and 24 city states. but the city state slider in advanced only goes up to 20, if you remove the 24 thats default, you cant get back up to it, it caps at 20. So I tried with huge map, 12 civs, and like 9 city states random number. Still no city states, didnt change anything.
Then wondered and tried all settings different, quick speed, picked a civ, standard map size, disabled every single advanced option and selected yet another different map type this time the communitu modded map thats included. Still no city states.
Also i tested it both on my laptop and my stationary computer( i play on both of them often and with cloudsaves) on both city states don't spawn, so it didnt matter if its on 1 or 2 ssd, or the pc doesnt matter at all seemingly. To me it just feels like the new version is bugged, because this doesnt happen in 4.2.7 or 3.7.12.
Here's some screenshots.

In any case, good luck on solving this weird thing. I'll probably be just reinstalling back to 3.7.12 and sticking with that as it felt nice enough when I was just playing it. Gonna check back in a few months if the new/new versions have fixed it for me. Keep up the good work!

I've had that issue before in 4.4. I might be miss remembering but I think I even commented some similar issue on github. In any case it's gone in most maps 4.4.3 experimental. However I still have weird city state generations on ring for VP map. It should have spawn 20 city states and only spawn like 10. It might be intended because the map is pretty small, but idk.

 

[dylansan]

Alright, so here's my findings from trying the 4.4.2 again.
Deleted civ 5 in steam, deleted the previous folders of civ 5 in steam and my games. Double checked my steam workshop, no subscribed items.
Reinstalled civ 5 on same SSD where my games/my documents is. Launched it once. Then quit and installed vox populi 4.4.2 double checked so it installs in correct locations, everything works.
Entered game, set settings same as previously - Pangea, huge, emperor, random civs, standard speed, all default, except couple settings in advanced changes, check screenshot.
Launched game, sent out scouts in all directions, found 1 city state in a huge area. was wondering if theres a faster way to reveal the map, found debug option in config.ini. Enabled that tried to reveal all on that map, saw that 3 city states were spawned.
Started a new game with same settings different map, terra for VP. Same thing revealed all, except theres not a single city state. noticed that there's a weird thing in the advanced settings city state slider that if select 'huge map' it gives you 12 civs and 24 city states. but the city state slider in advanced only goes up to 20, if you remove the 24 thats default, you cant get back up to it, it caps at 20. So I tried with huge map, 12 civs, and like 9 city states random number. Still no city states, didnt change anything.
Then wondered and tried all settings different, quick speed, picked a civ, standard map size, disabled every single advanced option and selected yet another different map type this time the communitu modded map thats included. Still no city states.
Also i tested it both on my laptop and my stationary computer( i play on both of them often and with cloudsaves) on both city states don't spawn, so it didnt matter if its on 1 or 2 ssd, or the pc doesnt matter at all seemingly. To me it just feels like the new version is bugged, because this doesnt happen in 4.2.7 or 3.7.12.
Here's some screenshots.

In any case, good luck on solving this weird thing. I'll probably be just reinstalling back to 3.7.12 and sticking with that as it felt nice enough when I was just playing it. Gonna check back in a few months if the new/new versions have fixed it for me. Keep up the good work!

I think this has something to do with using the 43 civ version. I know that 20 city states is the max in that version, regardless of the number of civs you select in your game setup, because of limitations with Civ itself. Maybe it causes other issues as well.

If you don't plan to play with 43 civs, I suggest trying out the normal version of VP and see if you have the same problems.

 

[Roamy]

I think this has something to do with using the 43 civ version. I know that 20 city states is the max in that version, regardless of the number of civs you select in your game setup, because of limitations with Civ itself. Maybe it causes other issues as well.

If you don't plan to play with 43 civs, I suggest trying out the normal version of VP and see if you have the same problems.

That might be a thing. I don't use the 43 civs version (since I have no extra civs from workshop, so no need for it), try it without maybe? I just started a new game as well with your settings, got the correct number of city states. So might be something weird happening there.

 

[andersw]

Is the AI back to massive production and science pre Renaissance
Did the AI get more combat bonuses in this version?
In a few games I roll AI's way too early (trebs+longswords) but in most I get hammered so hard (on emperor), example in current game I shoot 4 archers to a composite on flatland do 60 dmg in total comp shoots back does 65 and they leave me so far behind in techs.
I guess I could lower the difficulty, but what I really want is a less front loaded AI.
(Also in prev game I killed endless amount of japanese troops while he gladly rolled over a cs and far into austria not caring the slightest about losses.)

 

[epicivfreak]

More comments & Suggestions for Version 4.4.2

1. Healing Timers. Instead of units only having “heal until full HP,” can we have “heal for X turns,” so that it’ll heal until some customizable point when you want it to stop.
2. Via Diplomacy, it would be great if I could reward a Civ/CityState for doing a thing, for example, you attacked that Barbarian, so I’ll give you 30 Gold. It would also be awesome if I could ask a Civ/CityState to do a thing, like Attack That Barbarian, for 30 Gold.
3. On the “Religious Overview” screen, I think it would be nice to separate “Pantheons” from religious “Beliefs.” Note that I'm playing with EUI & I don't recall if Vanilla is any different.
4. More Realistic Ancient Tech Tree & More Choice & More Techs: I dislike the fact that every Civilization always starts off with Agriculture as a free tech, instead of the Palace granting a free tech and giving the Player a choice in their technological advancement from the start. So, I’d propose (besides the previous bits) that the first column of techs be composed of: Agriculture, Animism*, Pottery, Trapping & Animal Husbandry. *Animism contains: Shrine, Council, Stonehenge. If that occurs, that puts 5 rows of techs in the first column, which would either lead to 6 or 7 techs in the next column, logically. Personally, I’d like to go 7 techs for the second column, then 6, then alternate from there (7 techs a column, 6 techs a column, etc.) As far as the City Attack +1 Range bonus goes, I’d want that in the second or third column somewhere.
5. It really feels like the numbers of everything have increased simply for the sake of having higher numbers. I’d suggest dividing the output and cost of everything by half, round up on costs & down on outputs (idk). Then rebalance from there.
6. I’d suggest a new tile improvement for workboats to build: Coastal Fishery. It should only be buildable adjacent to land. Bonus +1 Food & +1 Gold. Civ5 uses workboats too little, IMO. I’m currently playing with a mod named Coasts And Rivers Yield Gold Again that does something similar, but forcing the player to work for that bonus would be better than this mod, now that I’ve played with it up until 1000AD.

I’m going to remove a couple of mods I’ve been playing with and start a new game now.

 

[DukeBrani]

More comments & Suggestions for Version 4.4.2

1. Healing Timers. Instead of units only having “heal until full HP,” can we have “heal for X turns,” so that it’ll heal until some customizable point when you want it to stop.
2. Via Diplomacy, it would be great if I could reward a Civ/CityState for doing a thing, for example, you attacked that Barbarian, so I’ll give you 30 Gold. It would also be awesome if I could ask a Civ/CityState to do a thing, like Attack That Barbarian, for 30 Gold.
3. On the “Religious Overview” screen, I think it would be nice to separate “Pantheons” from religious “Beliefs.” Note that I'm playing with EUI & I don't recall if Vanilla is any different.
4. More Realistic Ancient Tech Tree & More Choice & More Techs: I dislike the fact that every Civilization always starts off with Agriculture as a free tech, instead of the Palace granting a free tech and giving the Player a choice in their technological advancement from the start. So, I’d propose (besides the previous bits) that the first column of techs be composed of: Agriculture, Animism*, Pottery, Trapping & Animal Husbandry. *Animism contains: Shrine, Council, Stonehenge. If that occurs, that puts 5 rows of techs in the first column, which would either lead to 6 or 7 techs in the next column, logically. Personally, I’d like to go 7 techs for the second column, then 6, then alternate from there (7 techs a column, 6 techs a column, etc.) As far as the City Attack +1 Range bonus goes, I’d want that in the second or third column somewhere.
5. It really feels like the numbers of everything have increased simply for the sake of having higher numbers. I’d suggest dividing the output and cost of everything by half, round up on costs & down on outputs (idk). Then rebalance from there.
6. I’d suggest a new tile improvement for workboats to build: Coastal Fishery. It should only be buildable adjacent to land. Bonus +1 Food & +1 Gold. Civ5 uses workboats too little, IMO. I’m currently playing with a mod named Coasts And Rivers Yield Gold Again that does something similar, but forcing the player to work for that bonus would be better than this mod, now that I’ve played with it up until 1000AD.

I’m going to remove a couple of mods I’ve been playing with and start a new game now.

The above sounds like an interesting modmod of VP! When do you hope to release the first version?

 

[andersw]

More comments & Suggestions for Version 4.4.2

1. Healing Timers. Instead of units only having “heal until full HP,” can we have “heal for X turns,” so that it’ll heal until some customizable point when you want it to stop.
2. Via Diplomacy, it would be great if I could reward a Civ/CityState for doing a thing, for example, you attacked that Barbarian, so I’ll give you 30 Gold. It would also be awesome if I could ask a Civ/CityState to do a thing, like Attack That Barbarian, for 30 Gold.
3. On the “Religious Overview” screen, I think it would be nice to separate “Pantheons” from religious “Beliefs.” Note that I'm playing with EUI & I don't recall if Vanilla is any different.
4. More Realistic Ancient Tech Tree & More Choice & More Techs: I dislike the fact that every Civilization always starts off with Agriculture as a free tech, instead of the Palace granting a free tech and giving the Player a choice in their technological advancement from the start. So, I’d propose (besides the previous bits) that the first column of techs be composed of: Agriculture, Animism*, Pottery, Trapping & Animal Husbandry. *Animism contains: Shrine, Council, Stonehenge. If that occurs, that puts 5 rows of techs in the first column, which would either lead to 6 or 7 techs in the next column, logically. Personally, I’d like to go 7 techs for the second column, then 6, then alternate from there (7 techs a column, 6 techs a column, etc.) As far as the City Attack +1 Range bonus goes, I’d want that in the second or third column somewhere.
5. It really feels like the numbers of everything have increased simply for the sake of having higher numbers. I’d suggest dividing the output and cost of everything by half, round up on costs & down on outputs (idk). Then rebalance from there.
6. I’d suggest a new tile improvement for workboats to build: Coastal Fishery. It should only be buildable adjacent to land. Bonus +1 Food & +1 Gold. Civ5 uses workboats too little, IMO. I’m currently playing with a mod named Coasts And Rivers Yield Gold Again that does something similar, but forcing the player to work for that bonus would be better than this mod, now that I’ve played with it up until 1000AD.

I’m going to remove a couple of mods I’ve been playing with and start a new game now.

Number 5 is problematic in that most things start at 1, if you remove, delay or change that 1 yield that has a huge long term effect, ofc you can halve university, forge, armory yields and a lot of insta yields as well but suggestions like this need to be far more specific with what numbers where and when otherwise its just a random opinion with little or no context.

If you really want changes you can suggest the for the next congress but there need to be numbers and a somewhat thought through idea, or why not make your own mod mod.

 

[Roamy]

The above sounds like an interesting modmod of VP! When do you hope to release the first version?

This might have come across slightly more passive-aggressive than intended perhaps. Made me feel kinda bad for the guy posting his honest thoughts. Just a piece of feedback.

 

[epicivfreak]

This might have come across slightly more passive-aggressive than intended perhaps. Made me feel kinda bad for the guy posting his honest thoughts. Just a piece of feedback.

No offense taken. I'm just noting then posting various random comments & suggestions as I play the various versions of Vox Populi. If someone finds the thing cool enough to pick up and go into more detail on, that's great, otherwise I'm just ignored. No big deal.

I had plans for doing mods, but I've forgotten half of what I knew about coding, so it's all I can do now.

 

[andersw]

No offense taken. I'm just noting then posting various random comments & suggestions as I play the various versions of Vox Populi. If someone finds the thing cool enough to pick up and work on great, otherwise I'm just ignored. No big deal.

I had plans for doing mods, but I've forgotten half of what I knew about coding, so it's all I can do now.

Problem is that without numbers its so easy to pick up on an idea and when it gets done it will be like "this wasnt at all what I meant".
Not saying the suggestions are all bad but
1. ui stuff, but you can already see health bar every turn.
2. wouldnt this heavily benefit those who have cs in close proximity and remember this is boosted by statecraft.
This needs to be fleshed out more in detail, how much yields, what you can ask and what will this provide in what eras compared to other yields.
3. ui stuff I have no opinion.
4. I think you have to give this one up, this is a game, its not realistic in any sense, it never were in any version of any civ game.
5. this is very vague and needs to be way more detailed.
6. a good "clean" suggestion, I dont know if its needed.
Again post detailed suggestions in the next congress if you want them, if that is too much effort it was likely not that important after all?

 

[looorg]

I'm not quite sure when India had their change in ability. But the wording of it seems a bit weird. Have I misunderstood the new India ability. As it is stated it says "you may spend a prophet's first spread action to FOUND or ENHANCE a religion, or build a HOLY SITE, without consuming the Prophet". With my first prophet I tried to build a Holy site before Founding and the prophet was consumed. Weird I know but I thought I was going to be a bit cheeky and get the Holy site spam started and then found with the prophet as per normal, so free holy site then found. That does not work.

I could Found a Religion and the prophet was not consumed. But then I could not use it afterwards to build a Holy site. Does that only happen or work when I have already founded the religion? The second prophet could build a holy site and not be consumed, but he couldn't then ENHANCE and was now only for spreading the religion.

So order matters. But it's a bit awkward then and the wording isn't really clear. You sort of get an extra thing but if you use the extra you can't use the prophet normally and he just becomes a spreader. So it's not really extra, it's sort of like a prophet and a missionary in one, do the prophet thing and then your prophet becomes like a missionary. Which is ok since you can't build them. But the phrasing sort of implies that you get something extra, the extra then being a missionary.

/EDIT/ BOROBUDUR doesn't give the prophets an extra charge. So I guess there is a ceiling that was reached. Or was it from there that the extra charge was given or used?

 

[Anarcomu]

Well, apart from the consumption of the prophet on religionless Holy Site, it works as designed.
You can Found, Enhance, or create Holy site if your prophet is at max charge. Doing so (India) only consume one charge. Afterward, you cannot Found, Enhance, or create Holy site with that prophet.
The totality of the text concern the "you may spend a prophet's first spread action to", including Holy site.

 

[epicivfreak]

Number 5 is problematic in that most things start at 1, if you remove, delay or change that 1 yield that has a huge long term effect, ofc you can halve university, forge, armory yields and a lot of insta yields as well but suggestions like this need to be far more specific with what numbers where and when otherwise its just a random opinion with little or no context.

If you really want changes you can suggest the for the next congress but there need to be numbers and a somewhat thought through idea, or why not make your own mod mod.

It seems as if you're referring simply to tile yields, whereas (and I should have been more specific, I'll admit), I was referring to yields on buildings/wonders/natural wonders...etc. - basically everything but initial tile yields. Admittedly, as you say, it is problematic. It's a huge re-balancing issue. I'm not sure it's really worth it for "standard" games - but I always play "marathon" and no version of Civ5 has ever felt truly balanced there. This mod seems to exacerbate that problem.

 

[epicivfreak]

Problem is that without numbers its so easy to pick up on an idea and when it gets done it will be like "this wasnt at all what I meant".

I didn't think this was the thread to go into nitty-gritty details. Like I said before, if someone wants to pick it up & work with it, let's go. Fork from this thread & let's get into details. Otherwise, a general overview of the idea seems sufficient for here.

1. ui stuff, but you can already see health bar every turn.

It was simply a "set & forget" suggestion. Sure, you can micromanage it, but Civ suffers from enough micromanagement as it is. Why not have a "Fortify & heal for X Turns" option?

4. I think you have to give this one up, this is a game, its not realistic in any sense, it never were in any version of any civ game.

By "realistic" I simply mean that things could have a greater level of verisimilitude. It's just simpler to type "realistic" & I assumed everyone would get the meaning. Just for a few examples, the concepts of Construction, Trapping, & Fishing - they've all been going on for millennia before the advent of Agriculture, which is the starting Tech. I'd personally scrub them for greater realism. Not that the things those Techs give should be scrubbed, just the Tech names, because the concept showing up after Agriculture is silly.

 

[andersw]

It seems as if you're referring simply to tile yields, whereas (and I should have been more specific, I'll admit), I was referring to yields on buildings/wonders/natural wonders...etc. - basically everything but initial tile yields. Admittedly, as you say, it is problematic. It's a huge re-balancing issue. I'm not sure it's really worth it for "standard" games - but I always play "marathon" and no version of Civ5 has ever felt truly balanced there. This mod seems to exacerbate that problem.

Yes all yields are x2 on marathon for that you could probably just adjust the speed yields modifier from x2 to x1 and test how it works.

 

[4CV]

...

By "realistic" I simply mean that things could have a greater level of verisimilitude. It's just simpler to type "realistic" & I assumed everyone would get the meaning. Just for a few examples, the concepts of Construction, Trapping, & Fishing - they've all been going on for millennia before the advent of Agriculture, which is the starting Tech ...

Do you know "Jarcast's Prehistoric Era for VP (v 1)" ? iirc, this is rather similar to what you said, but still experimental (I didn't try to play it yet)

 

[epicivfreak]

Do you know "Jarcast's Prehistoric Era for VP (v 1)" ? iirc, this is rather similar to what you said, but still experimental (I didn't try to play it yet)

I'm not familiar with it and searching the forums hasn't turned up anything newer than 2017.

 

[detroitrex]

Alright, so here's my findings from trying the 4.4.2 again.
Deleted civ 5 in steam, deleted the previous folders of civ 5 in steam and my games. Double checked my steam workshop, no subscribed items.
Reinstalled civ 5 on same SSD where my games/my documents is. Launched it once. Then quit and installed vox populi 4.4.2 double checked so it installs in correct locations, everything works.
Entered game, set settings same as previously - Pangea, huge, emperor, random civs, standard speed, all default, except couple settings in advanced changes, check screenshot.
Launched game, sent out scouts in all directions, found 1 city state in a huge area. was wondering if theres a faster way to reveal the map, found debug option in config.ini. Enabled that tried to reveal all on that map, saw that 3 city states were spawned.
Started a new game with same settings different map, terra for VP. Same thing revealed all, except theres not a single city state. noticed that there's a weird thing in the advanced settings city state slider that if select 'huge map' it gives you 12 civs and 24 city states. but the city state slider in advanced only goes up to 20, if you remove the 24 thats default, you cant get back up to it, it caps at 20. So I tried with huge map, 12 civs, and like 9 city states random number. Still no city states, didnt change anything.
Then wondered and tried all settings different, quick speed, picked a civ, standard map size, disabled every single advanced option and selected yet another different map type this time the communitu modded map thats included. Still no city states.
Also i tested it both on my laptop and my stationary computer( i play on both of them often and with cloudsaves) on both city states don't spawn, so it didnt matter if its on 1 or 2 ssd, or the pc doesnt matter at all seemingly. To me it just feels like the new version is bugged, because this doesnt happen in 4.2.7 or 3.7.12.
Here's some screenshots.

In any case, good luck on solving this weird thing. I'll probably be just reinstalling back to 3.7.12 and sticking with that as it felt nice enough when I was just playing it. Gonna check back in a few months if the new/new versions have fixed it for me. Keep up the good work!

just reinstalled civ, and I had the same problem. I did 2 things, and the problem *seems* to have gone away:
-reinstalled vp, only without the 43-civ option this time
-installed the 4.4.3 dll

it's not you, man. you're not crazy