New BETA Version - 4.5.1 (February 28, 2024)

[KungCheops]

Could it be worth going back and asking people what they expect from the automated workers and from the AI players, and if this system attempts to do too much?

Because personally, my use case is simple and this is how I used to use it before:

1) Build roads for the capital connection and having every city connected with at least one road, automated.
2) Build war roads or some preparatory roads, manual.
3) Build shortcuts if needed, manual (would be nice if could be automated).
4) Upgrade existing roads to railroads (automated for the roads built at 1, the rest is manual).

If there are villages or towns happen to be on the road, or could be built afterwards, then good, but I never considered it a priority.

With the above, re-making or adjusting the roads network either by player or by the AI would be rare enough as to be basically needless (hence road removal being forbidden doesn't matter, I never even noticed that it was a thing).

Basically I was fine with the old system, with the exception of some additional minor automation that could be nice QoL.

I am curious what other people expect from the autobuilder/AI.

I'm not sure what version you've been playing but AI workers have been building shortcut routes for a long time.

 

[Zuizgond]

Weird CS behavior. I am neutral with Vilnius (0 influence) but when I attack the Indonesian Archer bottom right, Vilnius is suddenly allied with Indonesia :

Is there a 'CS is mad if I stay in a war for too long' mechanic I am missing?

I tend to think it's a bug as I also saw a CS turn hostile when I conducted a great diplomat mission with them.

 

[axatin]

Weird CS behavior. I am neutral with Vilnius (0 influence) but when I attack the Indonesian Archer bottom right, Vilnius is suddenly allied with Indonesia :

Looks like a bug, report it please.

 

[Recursive]

Version 4.5.1 has been released. Link in OP has been updated.

Changelog:

Road Logic Rework
- Make a more strict ordering of priorities when planning routes:
   1. Use features
   2. Use other planned routes
   3. Go through existing towns/villages
   4. Use existing roads or roads that are under construction
   5. Use lower tier existing roads
   6. Go through plots that can have villages
   7. Avoid going outside our borders

- Reuse of other planned routes now more aggressive.
- Reuse of existing roads now more aggressive.
- AI should now be much less willing to reroute their road network.
- Prefer towns over villages when planning routes.
- Made route planning with regards to unique improvements more sensible. Will no longer avoid going through plots where we can not build our unique improvement.
- Fixed Polynesia connection happiness trait not being accounted for when planning capital routes.
- When evaluating any road build, will now consider the total build time for the entire road. I.e., a road consisting of 10 plots will no longer be evaluated as if it takes 3 turns in total to build.
- Reduced value of building railroad when there is an existing road connection and vice versa.

Improvement Logic Rework
- Fixed incorrect adjacency calculations. Some calculations were done twice, some not done at all, some done the wrong way.
- Don't build resource creating improvements on existing resources.
- Removed flavor weights for improvements on resources. Flavors are now not used when planning improvements.
- Fixed strategic resource evaluation not working correctly.

Bugfixes
- Fixed enemy unit panel not displaying properly for city attacks, melee units, embarked units
    Fixed miscellaneous bonus display being flipped on the enemy side
    Added back missing terrain defense and fortification bonuses (display issue only)
- Fixed automated exploration ending prematurely
- Fixed an issue with improved resources not being added due to a function mismatch
- Fixed an issue where the amount of Science required to research a tech wasn't being displayed
- Fixed Venetian puppets being unable to buy military units

Other
- Removed redundant "run and hide" logic for workers.

Online as of 11:29 PM CST. Savegame compatible with 4.5 versions.

 

[greenfieldpark]

Noticed an exploit. When enemy ai is sending a protected settler towards me I block their path with my units. What theh then do is send their settler onto the tile where my unit is stationed leaving their military protection behind.

At which point i declare war and they lose their settler.

So I suppose either leave it as is. Or make it so they wont leave their settler unprotected or at least not have their settler walk onto ememy military units.

 

[Solic]

Noticed an exploit. When enemy ai is sending a protected settler towards me I block their path with my units. What theh then do is send their settler onto the tile where my unit is stationed leaving their military protection behind.

At which point i declare war and they lose their settler.

So I suppose either leave it as is. Or make it so they wont leave their settler unprotected or at least not have their settler walk onto ememy military units.

If you make that a hard rule you can block civs you are not willing to declare war against given some smart unit placement. I'd only institute this towards players the AI feels really threatened by military wise. (Something which might already be the case)

 

[andersw]

Noticed an exploit. When enemy ai is sending a protected settler towards me I block their path with my units. What theh then do is send their settler onto the tile where my unit is stationed leaving their military protection behind.

At which point i declare war and they lose their settler.

So I suppose either leave it as is. Or make it so they wont leave their settler unprotected or at least not have their settler walk onto ememy military units.

This have been a thing back and forth, currently looks like its dependant on terrain and relations.
Tried to do this vs mongolia on flatland and not possible.
I have seen some wonky worker behaviour and it feels like I'm capturing a lot of workers during wars.

 

[Zuizgond]

This have been a thing back and forth, currently looks like its dependant on terrain and relations.
Tried to do this vs mongolia on flatland and not possible.
I have seen some wonky worker behaviour and it feels like I'm capturing a lot of workers during wars.

Noticed that too. Lots of unprotected workers during war.

 

[YoullPay4ThisInTime]

Yes, the AI build TR.

Yeah simply clearing the cache seem to have solved it.

As for unprotected workers during wars, I've noticed the AI send them to repair important roads but without protection.

 

[statusquo]

Hey, i have found an issue that bothered me for long time, but i lately installed "in game editor" so i have a tool, to isolate some scenarios, and it kinda confirmed what i was thinking.
So maybe you could clarify me correct behaviour.
Basically, if you are using process, all instant production from Authority is lost (im guessing all instant production)
The same turn as border growth gives you instant production, this production is shown as if it would be added to the building, but if you keep hitting "next turn" it is lost.
I was testing, if perhaps, instant prodution is converted into instant culture/food etc, but nothing like this happens.
The only way to salvage the situation, is to switch process to some actual building/unit the same turn border popup, hit next turn, and then switch back to the process..
But this is annoying.
I was thinking about this, since sometimes in late game, i switch all my cities into culture process, to catch up, and that causes a lot of border popups. And is was wandering always,
what actually is ahppening to all that production, and it seems for me, it is sent to the void..
If you have a building qued after the proces, and you move up and down the building, the game shows you that this instant production would be added, but then againg it dissapears.
Im guessing simple rules of "overflowing production" apply ( = max 1 turn of production).. but when i did manually like 10 turns of border growth it was like 10 turns of prodcution.
Is it a bug then? Imo Instant production is very important part of Authority, and the fact that it kinda dont work with processes is not entirely right.. am i wrong?

I also noticed, that instant food that is added to the food pool, if the city is set to avoid growth will reset. For example food is 20/15 and if the city is set to avoid growth, the next turn it will become 15/15.
Im guessing it is to prevent stacking food without growth, so that after you switch back you wouldnt get all this food that stacked instantly, which kinda could be abused in some scenarios.
But then again, if you get food from smokehouse, it will be lost.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Hey

I have to ask, are you german? No offense but in the english language the comma ( , ) is not used as much as in german. Makes it a bit harder to read what you are saying.

 

[azum4roll]

but when i did manually like 10 turns of border growth it was like 10 turns of prodcution.

You can't naturally grow borders more than once, so it's not a problem.

We already suffer from a lot of production loss when building early buildings in lategame, especially with Imperialism.

 

[saamohod]

@azum4roll

Civ's capitals still seem to spawn too close to each other in Communitu script.

 

[saamohod]

I have to ask, are you german? No offense but in the english language the comma ( , ) is not used as much as in german.

Could be East Slavic (UA, RU) too

 

[azum4roll]

@azum4roll

Civ's capitals still seem to spawn too close to each other in Communitu script.

View attachment 685517

And what am I supposed to do with just that screenshot? At least reveal the entire map!

 

[greenfieldpark]

And what am I supposed to do with just that screenshot? At least reveal the entire map!

Hehe. Highly recomend people use in game editor and start a bunch of new games and keep restarting to see how the maps look on average.

Playing on Pangea standard size ive found the civ placements to be pretty good.

 

[statusquo]

We already suffer from a lot of production loss when building early buildings in lategame, especially with Imperialism.

What do you mean? Like when you get a lot of production and building low era buildings? And impredialism give you 10% for every era difference?

You can't naturally grow borders more than once, so it's not a problem.

Well, i did 10 border growths, so that, in all the graphs i had some huge number that stants out.
If i just did 1 border popup, i couldnt be sure since values 15 and 20 are just too similar, and then they are averaged by 10 turns.
But you can simulate that. Like let say, you want to set-up new city fast in the late game, and you make new city and start with
Great Writer culture bomb, this would cause border growth every turn, for multiple turns.. If you set some process then, all this pure production
from authority would be lost.. That would be stupid, but kinda shows the issue. But then again, if somebody would expect, that instant production,
would be converted into food for example, that would be great idea, to setup city even faster.
I cant believe im the only one that see this as an issue

Hehe. Highly recomend people use in game editor and start a bunch of new games and keep restarting to see how the maps look on average.

After first turn you can also use "retire" button.

 

[azum4roll]

Ideally instant and excess production is "saved" in a pool that stays forever until being used. The pool is immediately used up upon starting construction of a building, but the actual amount of production used is capped at max(1 turn of production, this turn's instant production).

For example, while you're working process, you gain 200 in the past turns, and 40 this turn. Your instant production pool now has 240 .

Scenario A: You switch to building a 80 building, but decide not to and switch back to process. No is wasted.
Scenario B: You switch to building a 80 building, and the city has 20 per turn. Upon turn end, 40 is added to the building progress, and the pool is emptied.
Scenario C: You switch to building a 80 building, and the city has 60 per turn. Upon turn end, 60 is added to the building progress, and the pool is emptied. There's an excess of 40 , so it's being added to the pool again.
Scenario D: You switch to building a 80 building, and the city has 300 per turn. Upon turn end, 240 is added to the building progress, and the pool is emptied. There's an excess of 460 , so it's being added to the pool again.

You still "waste" production this way, but at least you can see what's being wasted now.

 

[solohard1011]

On the roads... again (sorry). I rarely play with City States, but tried again recently and remembered that there is a CS quest that asks you to build a road to it. Roads to the ally city states also make sense in general to protect them. I wonder if it would make sense to incorporate it into the roads rework.

it feels like I'm capturing a lot of workers during wars.

I thought it could be my confirmation bias, but I also capture a lot of workers during wars, even without scouts or cavalry. AI workers even approach point blank sometimes.

Hehe. Highly recomend people use in game editor and start a bunch of new games and keep restarting to see how the maps look on average.

Playing on Pangea standard size ive found the civ placements to be pretty good.

I too find the civ placement to be pretty good, playing on Communitu large, 10 civs, 0-10 City-States with standard settings.

I did have instances where civs would spawn 4 tiles away from each other, but they are rare enough to not matter.

 

[statusquo]

For example, while you're working process, you gain 200 in the past turns, and 40 this turn. Your instant production pool now has 240 .

Ech.. there are sometimes moments i kinda regret asking questions
There is some mismatch between how we understand game works, but im just not able to see it as you do
So i just rly wonder if im just that stupid Lets try last time

So i did following test:
Set full Authority so that i got more instant production
Set some technologies from different eras so that instant yield would be even bigger
Set production to Wealth process
Angkor Wat suppose to be building 19 turns, i checkeked there was no production on the building (didnt put it into que)
I popup border, and 140 production was added to the instant pool
Now it says, Angkor Wat suppose to be building 7 turns (due to 140 prod would be added from instant yields got from border popup this turn), but still process in production
Hit next turn
Angkor Wat suppose to be building 19 turns

Above scenario in the "screenshot format"

Turn 2 Before border pop up

Turn 2 After Border pop up

Turn 3

So this 140 production from instant yield just dissapeared, it was not "moved" to next turn. If it was moved, game would say Angkor War need 7 turns to build instead 19 again.
So sayng something like 200 production was added in "past turns" is incorrect, since if the instant yield pool is not "released" to building or unit "this turn" it is lost.
It seems that it does not accumulate between turns.
I repeated same test for natural border growth, just in case IGE messes something up, but got same result, if you dont have some building or unit, while hitting next turn,
all the instant yield production is sent to the void..

Scenario A: You switch to building a 80 building, but decide not to and switch back to process. No is wasted.

Should be wasted this 40 prod from this turn instant yield, and older 200 was already wasted in previous turns.
Instant yield pool is empty next turn.