New Beta Version - August 5th (8-5)

[Gazebo]

@Gazebo, I want to ask something different. Ive played several matches in 6-2 and 7-29 and finished right now a game in 7-29. I get the feeling since the 6-2 patch, he AI is performing much worse than in the previous versions.
I overtake them now much earlier and easier even with only peaceful play, their cities are around 5 citizens smaller at turn 200-250 than in previous versions and in the game ive finished, the AI cities have grown maybe by only one citizen in the turns between 300-400.

Did you change anything bigger in the AI management or decision making? It looks like the AI sees growth already relative early in the game as harmful and thus loses the connection to the player in the mid of the game, making the late game far too easy.

No, there haven’t been any significant changes to the AI in that regard. You can look at version commits on GitHub to see that.

G

 

[andersw]

I've played through 100+ turns in 2 different Emperor games using both India and China with a Tradition opener. Those 2 civs' early game is arguably affected more than any other with these changes, so it really threw me for a ride considering I had no idea about the loss of pop at first. Despite this, I was able to adjust on the fly and still make some decent gains the second time through (I scrapped India with initial frustration, but China game I took Beauty and managed to snag Henge/Pyramids/Artemis and refocus to settling when I wasn't losing out on WLTED bonuses). I still got my 5 cities out, but just in a different manner than usual. It was interesting to see how the pace of the game changed, but I can see how many people are rattled by these new mechanics.

I had a very good authority poland early game, I did have two neighbouring maritime cities and got 2xfood gifts on meet.
I had very nice food expansions that were defensive locations.
At 6 cities I have room for atleast 3 more but I'm so low in happiness.
One AI (germany) went below 50% happiness without a war.
Progress Songhai have 2 cities.

 

[DeAnno]

I've been experimenting with Tradition openings in this patch where you try to get to 4 pop before opening tradition, then build 3 settlers to drop the capital to 3, then grow it back hard and never build a settler in it again (by the time you want the second rank of cities your second city should be approaching size 4). Then you end up with a sort of reasonable ring of 3 more cities, and can build settlers off of that. Progress missing that early +2 pop to dive an extra two cities more easily is a big disadvantage in peaceful settling. (Conversely, Authority's free settler is looming larger. Maybe progress should get that instead somehow.)

 

[XplosiveLun]

Pioneer's scaled cost seems a bit off. It costs 1251 hammers in the mid game, when I have around 10+ cities (including conquered). Comparing to the concurrent buildings, such as bank that only costs 500 hammers, pioneer seems very overpriced and not optimal to build (at all) despite its suggested purpose.

 

[Stalker0]

Pioneer's scaled cost seems a bit off. It costs 1251 hammers in the mid game, when I have around 10+ cities (including conquered). Comparing to the concurrent buildings, such as bank that only costs 500 hammers, pioneer seems very overpriced and not optimal to build (at all) despite its suggested purpose.

If we keep the scaling, I think a benefit of pioneers can be a reduced cost. This allows for a "new wave of settlement" which is great for Terra like maps.

 

[tu_79]

If we keep the scaling, I think a benefit of pioneers can be a reduced cost. This allows for a "new wave of settlement" which is great for Terra like maps.

Agree. It's already a big price to buy them with lives.

 

[DarkZero]

While all these changes where overkill, after a couple of years playing civ 6 i really like the lose one pop for settlers change, and I hope this one sticks

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

+1 Pop goody huts are a godsend now, huh.

 

[Neo Nguyen]

First, I really really like this mod, thanks to Gazebo and everyone.
With this patch, I thinks the AI have some kind of silly, my city have Walls, and the Assyria keep attacking me across the river. Is this normal?
Sorry for my bad English.

 

[ridjack]

I also would like to be at a point where we're using smaller changes then we have been to balance things.

 

[pineappledan]

Doesn’t having a 4 pop min restriction superbuff Spain? Spain gets 2 free pop on turn 1, so it can land grab much faster

Edit: maybe if the -1 pop for settlers is staying, it makes sense to remove the StopGrowth on settlers. I’m not sure a double punish is warranted. Also, indirect buff to pyramids.

 

[Omen of Peace]

I'm not a huge fan of the Settler changes, if only because it will have ripple effects throughout the whole system and may require a lot of rebalancing (of policies, beliefs, ...).
On principle, I see the appeal of it.

But I agree with those that said that the changes go too far in punishing peaceful wide.

 

[andersw]

I'm not a huge fan of the Settler changes, if only because it will have ripple effects throughout the whole system and may require a lot of rebalancing (of policies, beliefs, ...).
On principle, I see the appeal of it.

But I agree with those that said that the changes go too far in punishing peaceful wide.

Yeah upgrade cost settler -> pioneer was also affected by this, had to pay in the range of 1500 to upgrade one on epic (normally 500g).
AI also left suprisingly large areas unsettled.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Something has to be done with the puppet happiness. They come too fast to the point, when growth is completly stopped caues of a -100% gowth penalty. Could maybe the growth penalty atleast be halfed in puppets?

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I like that this version has me actively seeking food as opposed to avoiding or being indifferent to it as I've been in the past. Less initial growth/pop also leads to less yield bloat, allowing the late game to play out a bit more. Things may appear harsh, we obviously still need some tweaks, but I say we give some of this a chance.

Players adjust and the meta might change, but Zebo has at least managed to slow the "settler spam/snowball" (arguably the #1 cause of victory) with these initial changes. I can also confirm with Dan that a Spain/Pyramid setup is ideal at the moment.

 

[CrazyG]

I've tried twice unsuccessfully to update to this version. Game crashes when loading, apparently I'm missing textures? Any clues?

 

[Ziad]

I felt the Carthage nerf

 

[Stalker0]

Trying this out with Authority Japan. Turn 140. I was able to secure 6 cities pretty easily in the game. Imperium of course helps with this, but I had a lake and a citrus to start so I was able to reasonable get a decent number of cities. However, the happiness has made me pay for it. I'm ~34% most of the time, so my forces are hurting at the moment, and there's really no way to come out of it at the moment. I think happiness is a bit too punishing, but not crazy, as the point is to punish fast expansion. Most AIs got 4 cities early and have now crept up to 5/6 cities, so I don't think the fast rush really got me anything in the long run.

I will say the unhappiness numbers with the tooltip are bugged at the moment. The tooltip says I get barbarians at 20%, but I've never dipped below 30%, so something is off.

 

[Bromar1]

I've been experimenting with Tradition openings in this patch where you try to get to 4 pop before opening tradition, then build 3 settlers to drop the capital to 3, then grow it back hard and never build a settler in it again (by the time you want the second rank of cities your second city should be approaching size 4). Then you end up with a sort of reasonable ring of 3 more cities, and can build settlers off of that. Progress missing that early +2 pop to dive an extra two cities more easily is a big disadvantage in peaceful settling. (Conversely, Authority's free settler is looming larger. Maybe progress should get that instead somehow.)

Specialists vs fast expansion is a really interesting trade-off, especially for tradition. Tradition Egypt + pyramids could be pushing 4-5 cities in under ~75 turns

However, I think authority needs the free settler now more than ever. Without the food on border growth, it's going to be hard to build settlers and authority really needs an early reliable geopolitical foothold to keep up with progress

 

[Aqinu]

I will say the unhappiness numbers with the tooltip are bugged at the moment. The tooltip says I get barbarians at 20%, but I've never dipped below 30%, so something is off.

Yeah, VERY UNHAPPY and SUPER UNHAPPY descriptions were switched, I fixed this in a pull request.