New Beta Version - August 6th (8/6)

[Mambo668]

Using latest patch: utilizing a general to form a citadel does not increase supply. My supply was 15/12 before citadel, and remained 15/12 after creation of citadel. In my latest game, i have been riding 1 to 3 over my cap for over a dozen turns.
I am in second place for tech lead, 2 under the leader, 2 above the third in tech.
I am not sure that the burden of tech on supply is a bad thing, but the issue for me is that none of the steps that are meant to mitigate those effects seem to be working for me. Citadel doesn't work, walls don't seem to effect it (although that's a percent, not an integer value, so not easy for me to test), Great wall might have affected supply but not sure. Citadel doesn't, and barracks again don't seem to (difficult to test).

I have this problem too. So bug is still there. I had supply 10/10 then used great general for a citadel but supply still 10/10. The game is saying supply is increased by 2 but it is not.

 

[kawyua]

How do people feel about the late game city state quest to give a pledge of protection? It will occur if someone demands tribute from a city state, and all you have to do is pledge to protect it. With statecraft, the reward was 500+ great person points in the capital, of all types. I just got two of these in a row, which gave me every type of great person once, and two musicians.

I feel like its too strong. I'd purposely not going to protect anyone just to maximize the chance to get this quest.

I think its overly strong, too. I made an issue on github because I thought it was clearly bonkers insane, but it seemed to be an intended thing. I closed the issue because I didn't want to argue over github: https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/4520. that quest of protection gives me like 10 great person which is like holy ****. It is such a huge influx of resources

 

[Gazebo]

I have this problem too. So bug is still there. I had supply 10/10 then used great general for a citadel but supply still 10/10. The game is saying supply is increased by 2 but it is not.

Not a bug - prior version did the same thing, just slightly more infrequently - at some points your tech deduction will be high enough that any input into the function is immediately discounted via tech. Increasing by 'flat supply' doesn't mean you get it immediately, it means the value is added to the pool from which tech deductions are made.

G

 

[arthurF]

G what is the function you are using to calculate this? The in-game account of supply is fairly straight forward addition and subtraction. There is a supply generated by cities, population, difficulty level, added together..then tech and war weariness (as a percent) etc are subtracted from that total. Seems to me like a "flat supply", for instance the 2 from a citadel would just be simply added to it?

 

[Gazebo]

How do people feel about the late game city state quest to give a pledge of protection? It will occur if someone demands tribute from a city state, and all you have to do is pledge to protect it. With statecraft, the reward was 500+ great person points in the capital, of all types. I just got two of these in a row, which gave me every type of great person once, and two musicians.

I feel like its too strong. I'd purposely not going to protect anyone just to maximize the chance to get this quest.

Typo. Supposed to be 25, is 75.

G

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I tested the 8.6.1 beta by setting up a map against Venice only and removed all CS along with barbarians and ancient ruins as well as disabling the event system. This way I could see how a single city fared with supply as it grew, gained tech and built buildings without interruptions. Everything that I built that added a flat amount actually added its amount. Everything that I built which boosted by a percent did so as well (a single city providing 10 or more yields enough to notice a difference). I ended up with a supply around 31 for a single city before I got too tired to keep it up.

At any rate, when using a general to built a citadel I noticed that the supply did not reflect the change until after pressing "next turn". However, the next general used to build a citadel did not reflect the change until after I did something in the city view. I am guessing that the game needs to do some calculations in order to update the supply number for citadels. Its adding the points just not updating the supply number at that moment.

***************************
My own question:
How is it possible that while still in the Ancient era that England could steal tech from one of my cities? I did not think spies were available until the Renaissance era.

 

[Gazebo]

I tested the 8.6.1 beta by setting up a map against Venice only and removed all CS along with barbarians and ancient ruins as well as disabling the event system. This way I could see how a single city fared with supply as it grew, gained tech and built buildings without interruptions. Everything that I built that added a flat amount actually added its amount. Everything that I built which boosted by a percent did so as well (a single city providing 10 or more yields enough to notice a difference). I ended up with a supply around 31 for a single city before I got too tired to keep it up.

At any rate, when using a general to built a citadel I noticed that the supply did not reflect the change until after pressing "next turn". However, the next general used to build a citadel did not reflect the change until after I did something in the city view. I am guessing that the game needs to do some calculations in order to update the supply number for citadels. Its adding the points just not updating the supply number at that moment.

***************************
My own question:
How is it possible that while still in the Ancient era that England could steal tech from one of my cities? I did not think spies were available until the Renaissance era.

That's ol Lizzie's UA. Spies in Antiquity.

G

 

[arthurF]

I tested the 8.6.1 beta by setting up a map against Venice only and removed all CS along with barbarians and ancient ruins as well as disabling the event system. This way I could see how a single city fared with supply as it grew, gained tech and built buildings without interruptions. Everything that I built that added a flat amount actually added its amount. Everything that I built which boosted by a percent did so as well (a single city providing 10 or more yields enough to notice a difference). I ended up with a supply around 31 for a single city before I got too tired to keep it up.

At any rate, when using a general to built a citadel I noticed that the supply did not reflect the change until after pressing "next turn". However, the next general used to build a citadel did not reflect the change until after I did something in the city view. I am guessing that the game needs to do some calculations in order to update the supply number for citadels. Its adding the points just not updating the supply number at that moment.

***************************
My own question:
How is it possible that while still in the Ancient era that England could steal tech from one of my cities? I did not think spies were available until the Renaissance era.

Well thanks for testing it......I have no idea what the heck is going on for me then. I will try expending a second general for citadel buiilding i guess. Hate to do that and lose my general for fighting with. How did you test the wall and barracks?

 

[CrazyG]

Typo. Supposed to be 25, is 75.

G

Even at 1/3 the current value I think its too much. Its just a huge reward and a very easy quest to fulfill.

 

[JNZS13]

How is it possible that while still in the Ancient era that England could steal tech from one of my cities?

Blame him.

 

[Borussia]

Conscripted units don't count for the supply system.
Is it intended that those conscripted units count again for supply if you upgrade them?
For example if I upgrade my conscripted Landsknecht to Tercio it uses up one point of supply again.

 

[Enginseer]

Conscripted units don't count for the supply system.
Is it intended that those conscripted units count again for supply if you upgrade them?
For example if I upgrade my conscripted Landsknecht to Tercio it uses up one point of supply again.

Technically it should since upgrading them *deletes* the old unit and gives a new unit with the same stats.

 

[Gazebo]

Conscripted units don't count for the supply system.
Is it intended that those conscripted units count again for supply if you upgrade them?
For example if I upgrade my conscripted Landsknecht to Tercio it uses up one point of supply again.

Yup - you are conscripted units as they are, not unit lines. It's meant to give you temporary blips of supply-free units every so often (otherwise it is too strong).

G

 

[Stalker0]

Just to start putting some datapoints down for the new wall esque buildings.

Right now one of my normal cities (not like a captial) with walls and castle is doing about 13-14 damage against a Tercio. I'll start noting some other data points soon.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Well thanks for testing it......I have no idea what the heck is going on for me then. I will try expending a second general for citadel buiilding i guess. Hate to do that and lose my general for fighting with. How did you test the wall and barracks?

I kept a notepad window up and made notes of the supply information as I went through doing things. If supply didn't change, I didn't write it down. But I did note later that there had been tech loss and pop growth canceling each other out during those periods. At any rate, with a single city the base supply is 10. So walls will provide at least 1 as 10% of 10 equals 1. Barracks provide a flat 1 to supply. The supply would go up on the finishing turn but depending upon tech and growth rates the supply could drop in the following turns.

That is the thing, most people rush science so they can get more techs faster and be more "powerful" than the AI. But doing so puts a hamper on your supply.

VP seems to be less about rushing through the tech to get ahead and more about balancing the needs of the city or cities. If your needs are balanced (at least distress & literacy), I don't think you'd ever see supply drop from gaining tech too quickly.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Blame him.

Well okay... But he wasn't around in the Ancient era. I could see maybe letting England get the spies one era earlier, but not as quickly as happened in this recent game.

I'll just make a note to no longer randomly fill the AI but manually select them and not let England come to the party.

 

[Stalker0]

That is the thing, most people rush science so they can get more techs faster and be more "powerful" than the AI.

I actually think its the complete opposite. Its much better to focus on culture and hammers early on. Spies can let you catch up in science later. So unless I'm playing a science heavy race (ala Korea) than I'll usually be behind the AI in tech.

 

[CivYam]

In my new 8-6-2 game, I somehow got into a happiness death spiral as Assyria. I was hovering around 0-20 happiness for about 200 turns, when suddenly it went to -10, then -20, -42 after I took a city, and -52 after I completed a courthouse in that city. I've been doing nothing in all my cities but making buildings to try to alleviate this for 40-odd turns, but it just seems to get worse. Any ideas?

 

[CppMaster]

Yup - you are conscripted units as they are, not unit lines. It's meant to give you temporary blips of supply-free units every so often (otherwise it is too strong).

G

I haven't played new version yet. How can you tell which units are supply free?

 

[Rafs]

In my new 8-6-2 game, I somehow got into a happiness death spiral as Assyria. I was hovering around 0-20 happiness for about 200 turns, when suddenly it went to -10, then -20, -42 after I took a city, and -52 after I completed a courthouse in that city. I've been doing nothing in all my cities but making buildings to try to alleviate this for 40-odd turns, but it just seems to get worse. Any ideas?

Hard to tell without an image, you'd have to locate the sources of unhapiness and see how you can fight them, most of the time there is no instant solution outside of carefully placing your citizens/specialist to try to fight off the unhappiness.
I'd go city by city and see what's causing it, and build your buildings acordingly. If it's a general thing like all your cities are lacking science, gold or culture you'll have to go for a tech that helps.