New Beta Version - December 1st (12-1)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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Sometimes that scout needs to stay home for a little bit until you get a warrior out. I tend to not send the scout too far away unless I'm fairly confident there aren't many barbs running around. I play without ancient ruins, though, so that might make it less punishing to not scout as much early on.
I always do, and against 1 warrior no problem. 2 at once is a different story. Not saying its not doable, but I'm going to take some pillages, and I'm not confident enough in immortal play yet to be able to take those hits and play all the way through.
On another topic, so I got to finally see skirmishers used against me (it was barbarians funny enough), and I can say that the base skirmisher does need a nerf...at least on its CS. In the open field, its invincible, and I don't mean in the "I just can't catch this unit way" I mean in the "stand there and laugh at your pathetic attempts. Its got an effective CS of 18, and a RCS of 15. Nothing can really hurt it, heck even war elephants don't have that kind of strength. My c bowmen got destroyed by just 2 of them, and they picked my civ clean. The RCS is one thing (as they are now "super" ranged units), but I think the CS needs a tone down (probably to 10, so effectively a 15 in open territory which is strong but counterable).
I will also say that with the new weaker cities and more aggressive AIs...if I have any AI in the area I make sure a new city now has an archer on immediate standby. The AI is too good now at taking out undefended cities...and they can do it so quickly you really don't have time to call for support. I do think this is a good thing, and though I adjusted my power expansion strategy, I'm going to have to weaken it even further in favor of more defense.
I can recall making a case ages ago for cities to be more vulnerable, especially in earlier eras, when cities/towns/villages/kingdoms/empires changed hands so many times over the course of history. Safe to say that I am pleased with the recently implemented changes. The Hp scaling with city pop is a nice touch, and I don't think siege will be made redundant because they can really allow you to blitzkrieg a city(ies) now.
I prefer stronger cities. Would be nice if there was an option in the advanced option menu to choose weak (e.g. no city attack) or strong city defences / city attack.
Other that that I had no real problems with this version yet.
I encountered just a small bug when one of my units disappeared when an enemy capitulated to me. So I just loaded an old save game and moved the unit out of his territory before making the peace deal.
Oh and the -15% faith cost reduction of Byzantium looks a bit weak on paper. Thank god only the tooltip is wrong. Ingame it is still the old -25% which is perfectly fine imo. Nobody else even seems to have noticed it so Byzantium can not be too strong as it is.
Other that that I had no real problems with this version yet.
I encountered just a small bug when one of my units disappeared when an enemy capitulated to me. So I just loaded an old save game and moved the unit out of his territory before making the peace deal.
Oh and the -15% faith cost reduction of Byzantium looks a bit weak on paper. Thank god only the tooltip is wrong. Ingame it is still the old -25% which is perfectly fine imo. Nobody else even seems to have noticed it so Byzantium can not be too strong as it is.
Earf
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2019
- Messages
- 29
I'm a fan of the weaker cities. I like how the change puts more value on having an army for defense. Cities with only a garrison don't hold out for so long against an invading army, which seems like how the game should work. And if you need to boost city defense for a short time, there's always the defense production option.
I think this may be a consequence of the city scaler, as I just got a Defensive Pact offer in my 4 (eventually 5) city Tall CV play. My army is no where near what it is when I was playing my 8-10 city wide games, but it has the appearance of strength because of the fewer cities.
civplayer33
King
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2017
- Messages
- 965
You can use the roads if you control the area (which means conquering the city that the road tiles are assigned to); as long as the defender still has some control over the area it makes sense, IMO, that you would have less mobility in his lands (this is also the idea behind the siege unit foreign lands movement malus, I think). It's a bit abstract but the game isn't supposed to be a reality simulator anyway.
pineappledan
Deity
If you want movement on foreign roads you should play as the Goths. That’s their main perk.
ridjack
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 1,000
Pretty sure something was broken with them last time I tried them. I know there's some reason they're not in my mod list.
Why is Carthage trying to buy one of my cities for... a single luxury?
Spoiler :
Standard Immortal on Continents Plus with Arabia. Game Lost (Retired) on Turn 374.
Probably my last game for a bit (I've played ALOT lately if you haven't noticed
). Went with a 4 city Arabia (got to 5 cities once Korea got uppity and I took one of his key cities), with the plan for CV.
Ultimately I played about the perfect peaceful CV game. My capital was paradise on earth, I had TRs flowing continuously with tourism. But unfortunately India was the culture leader, on the complete opposite side of the world, and would not open borders, share religion...and I had no coastal cities to send a TR to him (which honestly I probably would never have done anyway, sea ITRs are way too vulnerable when you are playing tall, you just can't afford the navy to protect them).
I made a late game push to finish CV but India got to the Great Firewall...and at that point I knew I had to change gears. One of Arabia's greatest strengths is their flexibility, even though I had committed to a CV I still come with a crapton of science, and so I pushed hard to see if a SV was still in the cards. I was able to get Hubble, but India got to CERN first. So....that plan is out. So I tried a last hail mary. I built 10 xcoms and tried to see if I could slow down India with surgical attacks.
Honestly I did about as well I could have expected. I cut all of his major rail lines and managed to take out 7 aluminum and 7 oil. The xcoms immediately died of course...and his own xcoms retaliated. The end was nigh, so I called the ball. Ultimately this is the failing with going true peaceful TALL, when it works out victory feels very easy, but when it doesn't its hard to project enough power to affect the final outcome. My mistake was not recognizing India was going to be the guy late game (and that was pretty clear by the midgame), and adjusting myself to counter knowing that CV without warfare would be difficult. My notes:
1) Maya got uppity this game so I had some fun with nukes. I've tried to stop thinking of nukes as special (aka the horrors of real nuclear war) and just see them for what they actually bring to the table. In a defensive war, the A bombs greatest asset to me is laying fallout on the enemy's battleground. This hinders their movement and causes general damage, its very powerful if your goal is to hold your line. Otherwise, I generally want to hit with 2 A bombs, as 1 alone won't really kill anything.
2) Got to try out the GDR right at the end. They don't have armor plating which I'll note. the GDR lost 3/4 of its health guarding my front and then died to a plane attack on the second round. A poor showing indeed. I always like to remember that 2 of these guys is basically the cost of a nuclear missile (or a spaceship part if you factor in the spaceship factory). I still don't think they are strong enough. I should be terrified to see these guys on the battlefield!
3) The new tanks and modern armor are doing quite well. I am using infantry less overall but I am not ignoring them, so the balance feels pretty good. Bazookas do deal alright damage to them, so they are a threat you can't ignore.
4) Still noticing that embassies are taken less often than they used to...did something change there?
5) Finally got a defensive pact this game! I think because my civ is so small, the AI thinks my military is quite strong, when realistically this is the weakest military I have had in 5 games...but the other games I've had double the cities.
6) Honestly I'm not sure if Great Musicians are even worth anything anymore. I found the tourism bombs even late game pretty underwhelming. Anyone else have similar experience?
7) First Tall game I've played in a while where I did not have permanent GAs, and I even had the +33% bonus Great Artist resolution AND I had an elephant luxury (which is longer GA lengths). That was surprising to me, so GAs maybe more precious now than they used to be.
8) I tried out the Mastery religious belief (its been a while since I used it), and I personally think it underperforms. Follower yields are stronger earlier, and buildings tend to have scalers that help more in the late game. Mastery doesn't really do anything that I can't do better with a different belief.
Probably my last game for a bit (I've played ALOT lately if you haven't noticed
). Went with a 4 city Arabia (got to 5 cities once Korea got uppity and I took one of his key cities), with the plan for CV.Ultimately I played about the perfect peaceful CV game. My capital was paradise on earth, I had TRs flowing continuously with tourism. But unfortunately India was the culture leader, on the complete opposite side of the world, and would not open borders, share religion...and I had no coastal cities to send a TR to him (which honestly I probably would never have done anyway, sea ITRs are way too vulnerable when you are playing tall, you just can't afford the navy to protect them).
I made a late game push to finish CV but India got to the Great Firewall...and at that point I knew I had to change gears. One of Arabia's greatest strengths is their flexibility, even though I had committed to a CV I still come with a crapton of science, and so I pushed hard to see if a SV was still in the cards. I was able to get Hubble, but India got to CERN first. So....that plan is out. So I tried a last hail mary. I built 10 xcoms and tried to see if I could slow down India with surgical attacks.
Honestly I did about as well I could have expected. I cut all of his major rail lines and managed to take out 7 aluminum and 7 oil. The xcoms immediately died of course...and his own xcoms retaliated. The end was nigh, so I called the ball. Ultimately this is the failing with going true peaceful TALL, when it works out victory feels very easy, but when it doesn't its hard to project enough power to affect the final outcome. My mistake was not recognizing India was going to be the guy late game (and that was pretty clear by the midgame), and adjusting myself to counter knowing that CV without warfare would be difficult. My notes:
1) Maya got uppity this game so I had some fun with nukes. I've tried to stop thinking of nukes as special (aka the horrors of real nuclear war) and just see them for what they actually bring to the table. In a defensive war, the A bombs greatest asset to me is laying fallout on the enemy's battleground. This hinders their movement and causes general damage, its very powerful if your goal is to hold your line. Otherwise, I generally want to hit with 2 A bombs, as 1 alone won't really kill anything.
2) Got to try out the GDR right at the end. They don't have armor plating which I'll note. the GDR lost 3/4 of its health guarding my front and then died to a plane attack on the second round. A poor showing indeed. I always like to remember that 2 of these guys is basically the cost of a nuclear missile (or a spaceship part if you factor in the spaceship factory). I still don't think they are strong enough. I should be terrified to see these guys on the battlefield!
3) The new tanks and modern armor are doing quite well. I am using infantry less overall but I am not ignoring them, so the balance feels pretty good. Bazookas do deal alright damage to them, so they are a threat you can't ignore.
4) Still noticing that embassies are taken less often than they used to...did something change there?
5) Finally got a defensive pact this game! I think because my civ is so small, the AI thinks my military is quite strong, when realistically this is the weakest military I have had in 5 games...but the other games I've had double the cities.
6) Honestly I'm not sure if Great Musicians are even worth anything anymore. I found the tourism bombs even late game pretty underwhelming. Anyone else have similar experience?
7) First Tall game I've played in a while where I did not have permanent GAs, and I even had the +33% bonus Great Artist resolution AND I had an elephant luxury (which is longer GA lengths). That was surprising to me, so GAs maybe more precious now than they used to be.
8) I tried out the Mastery religious belief (its been a while since I used it), and I personally think it underperforms. Follower yields are stronger earlier, and buildings tend to have scalers that help more in the late game. Mastery doesn't really do anything that I can't do better with a different belief.
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Potential bug; I suggest reporting on Github.
BiteInTheMark
Deity
I think world congress vote decision making should be looked at in the next patches. The AI is offering me weird things.
In one turn, Carthago want 3 Yes-votes from me for Natural Heritage Sites and offered me a luxury, but I declined. 5 Turns later they offered me 2 No-Votes for the same solution to the price of a luxury.
Is the AI now super smart and checked first how I think and then offered me useless votes to get a free luxury or simply weird?
The AI has to guess what you would want - that guess, if vacillating along the 'maybe?' spectrum, may shift to yes/no for a guess over the span of a few turns.
G
JamesNinelives
Emperor
Pretty sure something was broken with them last time I tried them. I know there's some reason they're not in my mod list.
Why is Carthage trying to buy one of my cities for... a single luxury?
Spoiler :
Personally I have experienced situations where the AI wants something but doesn't have/isn't willing to trade what it's worth so they just offer some token value in the hopes that you'll accept. Making that offer doesn't hurt them after all.
51,000 deal value... I want what Dido is smoking
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ridjack
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 1,000
51,000 peace deal... I want what Dido is smoking
Not even a peace deal. She just really wanted this city I settled on her borders.
Sorry, I meant deal value.
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