New Beta Version - March 15th (3-15)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New version inbound. Mainly cleanup and prep for the next full version release. Very few balance changes. Will sit on this for a bit to make sure the human feel is good with the new improvements and changes.

Bugfixes/Improvements
   Addressed intermittent CTD issues reported by some
   Cleanup/improvements to homeland, tactical AI
   Lots of smaller bugfixes
   Restored DOW popups for humans v. AI in some instances
   Diplo AI cleanup, aggression modifications
   Modified CS intrusion logic for major civ units
Balance
    Buildings
        Defense
            Increased for Acropolis (3, was 2), Minefield (6, was 3), Military Base (15, was 12), and Arsenal (12, was 10)
            Increased HP on Walls of Babylon (150, was 125) and Bomb Shelter (200, was 100)
    CSs
        Decrease Culture bonuses from Cultural CSs across all eras (now 1, 4, 10 for friends; 2, 6, 12 for allies)
    Pantheons 
        Adjusted God of Commerce to apply TR yield bonus to any city, not just capital (so routes are considered for each city, not a sum total given to capital)
        Goddess of the Home - now 8/8 from construction (was 10/10)

Online as of 10:45PM CST

https://mega.nz/#F!2Jdw3aQT!Z49gV7KAyMq6YiG5BD9jaA

 

[randomnub]

It's 5 am CET and I approve this message.

 

[MIS]

Woot!

Surprised no God of the Open Sky nerf, but happy about it - it's my go to!

 

[randomnub]

Interesting, at first glance AI values 1 gpt = 38 'deal points'. Makes sense tbh, I just have to get used to the new numbers because the AI is not. Example: Harald values my silver 332 DP, I ask "What will you give me for this?" and he proposes 6 gpt, same as when AI was valuing 1 gpt = 50. I have to manually correct the deal and he finds acceptable 9 gpt.

Big thumbs down at handicaps staying as they are and all pantheons being selected at t25 deity, but at least that makes me not mind much about goddess of the home nerf, I never got a chance to pick it yet I was expecting a tutelary gods buff though, considering you have 0 chances of founding with it 2 per city, 3 in a tradition capital, is pretty weak imo.

 

[Recursive]

Interesting, at first glance AI values 1 gpt = 38 'deal score'. Makes sense tbh, I just have to get used to the new numbers.

Big thumbs down at handicaps staying as they are and all pantheons being selected at t25 deity, but at least that makes me not mind much about goddess of the home nerf, I never got a chance to pick it yet I was expecting a tutelary gods buff though, considering you have 0 chances of founding with it 2 per city, 3 in a tradition capital, is pretty weak imo.

Change made by Gazebo: AI values GPT less than raw Gold now; the "interest rate" for the value calculation is 0.5% per turn of deal length (no compounding).

Thus, 100 Gold in 30 turns is worth 15% less than 100 Gold now.

 

[randomnub]

Yes I'm happy of that change as I said it makes sense. Just edited my post above though, AI could help me a bit when doing trades for gpt.

 

[Recursive]

Yes I'm happy of that change as I said it makes sense. Just edited my post above though, AI could help me a bit when doing trades for gpt.

The deal AI has a "percent under we will ask for" value - if I understand it correctly, they try to get you to accept a deal that benefits them, if they can get away with it.

 

[randomnub]

Understandable but because they'll gladly accept any trade that matches exactly their deal value all it makes is forcing me to manually adjust the deal every time in order to milk all possible gpt.

 

[azum4roll]

Understandable but because they'll gladly accept any trade that matches exactly their deal value all it makes is forcing me to manually adjust the deal every time in order to milk all possible gpt.

I don't do that unless that AI is my longtime enemy.

 

[randomnub]

Modified CS intrusion logic for major civ units

I don't get this, and the consequences are gamechanging/probably not intended. What did you want to change? If I enter CS territory with my pathfinder I declare war. If I merely pass through the CS territory there's no problem, but then I can abuse pathfinding to avoid dow even when ending in theor territory.

If that's confusing, one screenshot is worth a thousand words.

Spoiler :

My pathfinder is going to end turn on that mine hill in both cases, but in the second I'm forced to declare war. At the end of the next turn I'm pushed outside of the CS borders. Curious to see how Greece UA would fare here.

 

[randomnub]

I don't do that unless that AI is my longtime enemy.

Same. I've been fighting the AI for 7000 hours by now though, that counts.

 

[JamesNinelives]

I like that there is an element of bartering when the AI makes offers, but I understand not everyone will feel that way.

I don't do that unless that AI is my longtime enemy.

What I do is that if they offer me a reasonable value I accept. If the offer is a bit too low, I try to barter to see if I can get a better value. If their offer is way too low I don't bother and send them away.

he proposes 6 gpt, same as when AI was valuing 1 gpt = 50. I have to manually correct the deal and he finds acceptable 9 gpt.

Often what the AI offers will be close to the limit of what they are willing to pay. Sometimes they will pay 5-20% more but 50% more than the offered value is unusual to me.

The deal AI has a "percent under we will ask for" value - if I understand it correctly, they try to get you to accept a deal that benefits them, if they can get away with it.

Has something related to this changed recently (e.g. specific AIs offer better/worse deals) or have I just not been aware it can happen to this degree?

 

[randomnub]

I don't think there's any real bartering involved here. I know how much the AI values the trade so I act accordingly. There're no penalities for refusing the initial offer afaik, even if I couldn't see the exact numbers I can modify my offer by 1 gpt anytime I wish until we agree.

An example right now, Napoleon approaches me:

I know I can accept his offer and gain a very small 'we traded recently' modifier that's going to disappear in a matter of turns. Anyway, since it's him approaching me I think he should make a fair offer, heck even offer me lil more than what's fair if he really needs those horses.

I can change that 3 gpt into a 6 gpt at cost of some finger duty and he's going to accept nonetheless. Then another issue: I can only modify his side of the deal. If I reset the trade, and try put my 2 horses for trade again, he's only going to accept 1 copy of the resource. He has 0 horses and values one copy 95, 2 copies 190 but only when he's the one approaching me. Dunno, I think there's room for improvements here. Anyway, in the first 100 turns I'm really the worst human to barter with I think.

 

[JamesNinelives]

I don't think there's any real bartering involved here. I know how much the AI values the trade so I act accordingly. There're no penalities for refusing the initial offer afaik, even if I couldn't see the exact numbers I can modify my offer by 1 gpt anytime I wish until we agree.

Well the 'cost' is time and effort. Depending on how much you gain/loose sometimes you might not bother .

I can change that 3 gpt into a 6 gpt at cost of some finger duty and he's going to accept nonetheless.

That kind of difference is unusual IMO so I'm curious to hear what Recursive thinks.

Then another issue: I can only modify his side of the deal. If I reset the trade, and try put my 2 horses for trade again, he's only going to accept 1 copy of the resource.

Yeah, that was happening in the previous version as well. Seems like a bug?

Edit: @randumnub, I got a request from Haile Selassie during his turn to buy 4 horses. I removed the deal and put it back, and he is willing to trade for up to 2 horses at a time (same value per horse). So I declined, and when my turn came around offered the same trade (still maxes out at 2) and he was happy to still pay the same value for them.

After this I tried to do the same thing again to see if he would buy all 4 and he does, eventually. I can only trade 1 horse at the at a time though. He still values them at the same amount. In the end he is willing to buy all 5 of my horses at 2gp per turn each.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Increased for Odeon (3, was 2)

I assume you mean the Acropolis?

(Wikipedia tells me that 'The Odeon of Herodes Atticus is a stone Roman theater structure located on the southwest slope of the Acropolis of Athens, Greece.')

 

[randomnub]

Did you change anything in regard to missionary spread? I swear in previous betas I was able to convert a city like the one in screenshot in one turn. Also, 5 turns before I could have converted 4 citizens, this new full strength missionary is only able to convert 3. Denmark has no religion itself, nor any religious neighbours but me.

Spoiler :

Edit: even more confusing, trying to convert a nearby city gives the expected results.

Spoiler :

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Does inquisitors work now like intended or are they still bugged?

God of open Sky still not nerfed? 2 very valuable yields for working extremly common tiles is a very powerful tool. Together with the fact, that pantheons are gone away very fast, makes this an annoyance.

 

[Roamy]

Before I post on github, just wanted to see if other people here have this potential bug:

-In my current new game, my scout set to auto explore just sits on one tile, occasionally moving between two tiles and then returning to the same tile again. Moved scout manually to somewhere else, exhibits same behaviour.

Brand new game, (100 turns in on epic) so plenty of places for him to go and explore. Iroquois, epic, emperor, authority opener.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Edit 2: Dammit. I wasn't even playing on this patch, I downloaded it but forgot to install. Ignore what I had written here previously!

Here's some trivia instead, related to the tags: 'Love in the Time of Cholera (El amor en los tiempos del cólera) is a novel by Colombian Nobel prize winning author Gabriel García Márquez.'

 

[Gazebo]

I don't get this, and the consequences are gamechanging/probably not intended. What did you want to change? If I enter CS territory with my pathfinder I declare war. If I merely pass through the CS territory there's no problem, but then I can abuse pathfinding to avoid dow even when ending in theor territory.

If that's confusing, one screenshot is worth a thousand words.

Spoiler :

View attachment 549140

My pathfinder is going to end turn on that mine hill in both cases, but in the second I'm forced to declare war. At the end of the next turn I'm pushed outside of the CS borders. Curious to see how Greece UA would fare here.

I think this is worth bringing to @ilteroi's attention. He's the lord of pathfinding.

I assume you mean the Acropolis?

(Wikipedia tells me that 'The Odeon of Herodes Atticus is a stone Roman theater structure located on the southwest slope of the Acropolis of Athens, Greece.')

Yep - building is _ODEON before I changed name.

Did you change anything in regard to missionary spread? I swear in previous betas I was able to convert a city like the one in screenshot in one turn. Also, 5 turns before I could have converted 4 citizens, this new full strength missionary is only able to convert 3. Denmark has no religion itself, nor any religious neighbours but me.

Spoiler :

View attachment 549144

Edit: even more confusing, trying to convert a nearby city gives the expected results.

Spoiler :

View attachment 549146

@ilteroi made some adjustments to the underlying math, but testing showed that it worked correctly. We shall see.

Before I post on github, just wanted to see if other people here have this potential bug:

-In my current new game, my scout set to auto explore just sits on one tile, occasionally moving between two tiles and then returning to the same tile again. Moved scout manually to somewhere else, exhibits same behaviour.

Brand new game, (100 turns in on epic) so plenty of places for him to go and explore. Iroquois, epic, emperor, authority opener.

I think this is worth bringing to @ilteroi's attention. He's the lord of pathfinding.