New Beta Version - March 2nd (3-2)

[Recursive]

Good guess... Indeed it was the citadel that opened the naval path. Deleting with IGE didn't change anything. The path is open until a new tile improvement has been finished.

Spoiler :

View attachment 592564
View attachment 592565

I had a fort pillaged and was still able to put ships in the spot where it was. It was funny to see my caravel sitting on dry land.

I think ilteroi has fixed pillaged forts/citadels still allowing passage. Not sure if that applies if IGE is used to delete them, however.

 

[Stalker0]

I want to note, that though I recognize that the CS aggressiveness change was inadvertent, I am really enjoying it. It really changes the dynamic of having CS as your allies, and its a lot of fun actually fighting with them shoulder to shoulder, instead of "in a blue moon they might help me"

I personally would love if it stays in as is.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

He just wants to be left alone to do his thing.

he turned out to be my immediate neighbor and we became best buddies; he even offered to become my vassal (I'm not doing that anymore, really messes withhe game balance) and we went on joint war against the Inca, our Major rival .... things were going fine until he used the open boarders i gave him to block me from taking the Incan city that would have paved the way to taking the Incan Capital.
100% will be using my very first nuke to wipe that elephant lover of the map.

 

[DeAnno]

Just finished a Deity Morocco game on my Terra Oval script (Standard, Low Seas). It was a pretty exhausting battle and I might do a better report later, but some impressions:

• The kit is basically the Kasbah and everything else is flavor. The yields for unique routes is a fun minigame and you make some nice profit off it but it pales vs the Kasbah's raw power. You can annex conquered cities with half their infrastructure destroyed or start new colonies and they'll be good on Kasbah yields alone.
• One thing the unique routes bonus did do though was break me of my habit of internal trade routes. This encouraged me to use Asceticism for my food needs instead and it actually worked very well with the money from the external routes, I'll probably try it again in a future game. Asceticism has meh long term prospects but it is very efficient short term.
• The UU is pretty meh, mainly because Skirmisher Doctrine meshes with its terrain ignoring kind of poorly. I tried barrage logistics and accuracy parthian and neither felt very good (though partian felt better), though they did the job both in their own era and the time of light tanks. If I had my way the UU would lack Skirmisher Doctrine and just have slightly higher stats.
• I had a very desert-focused start and SoTD was very strong. There is synergy in not needing specific improvements too, you can just use the Kasbahs.
  
• Generally until Ideologies I was a bit behind in tech but after Kasbahs I got a small lead on the pack in Policies. Went Tradition/Statecraft/Industry and held a game dominating presence with CS until I got Decolonized eventually, but even after that I recovered decently mainly on the strength of liberations.
  
• When it came to Ideologies I picked Autocracy sheerly for the insane science interaction with Military Industrial complex, and that probably was enough to win me the game on its own. That it helped solve the huge fiscal issues of upgrades as well was almost insultingly good. I could've probably declared moral victory soon after this but had never won a Deity game and wanted to play it to the end.
• I built a ton of public works in this game, many (1-2 per core city) before I began my huge conquest having not much else to build right before Ideology/Industrialization tech. I could've run processes or diplo units instead but the Public Works in my core paid off and gave me insane happiness soak for the rest of the game.
• Wide Orders are hilarious even with Glory of God going full tilt I had almost 100k faith at one point near the end.
• Speaking of which Glory of God is totally bonkers hilarious broken, the sheer number of extra GPs is unfair. I think it should instead reduce the Industrial buy cost of the GP you are already allowed to get, even by a large amount like 50%, that would be much less good but still very takeable.
  
• The rest of Autocracy felt very powerful, but when you're ahead you feel very powerful in general so it's hard to judge maybe. Air Supremacy in particular felt broken (though not as broken as Glory of God, that gets first place) to get basically at the same time as flight, having airports everywhere including brand new puppets allows for insane force concentration and you can bomb your way into new cities in a matter of a couple turns.

I eventually won cultural on the back of Autocracy's Tourism policies, but was probably due to win most of the other victories not too long after that. I went from being a tall 8 city empire to a sprawling mess with 20 real cities and more puppets on top on the strength of Autocracy's policies telling me to murder everyone. I caught some troops at sea and killed them with my navy before my first big conquest and that made me thousands alone from the prize rules promotions.

I speed-conquered two more civs after that basically on the back of Air Supremacy and Bombers vs. Nothing in the air, they were quick wars that took less than 10 turns each, hopping my twenty or so bombers from new city to new city. I finally wrapped up taking the capital of the AI leader in a last push assisted by nukes, and then I rested on my laurels until CV completed. Gigantic citadels were fun and funny but not really necessary, almost more of a meme compared to Air Supremacy and the Prize Rules policy.

The last game before this I played to the end was a tall Immortal Egypt win where I went Freedom, and it just didn't feel nearly as powerful. In particular in that game's one war I had big issues with using planes on a long supply line that made conquering much more difficult, something the free airports solve completely.

 

[Stalker0]

• Generally until Ideologies I was a bit behind in tech but after Kasbahs I got a small lead on the pack in Policies.

I was curious when you said that you focus on ITRs, so do you use them for one round or do you use them frequently through the game? I ask because I am usually so far behind on science when playing Diety that I feel compelled to take ETRs, as they usually net me incredible science and culture yields.

 

[DeAnno]

I was curious when you said that you focus on ITRs, so do you use them for one round or do you use them frequently through the game? I ask because I am usually so far behind on science when playing Diety that I feel compelled to take ETRs, as they usually net me incredible science and culture yields.

Usually I fixed my science to some degree with Scholarship as an auto-belief pick, and while I sometimes moved to ETRs the large amounts of food or hammers from say, a network of ITRs from an oversized Apostolic Capital was often very tempting to keep going, bolstered by that middle Fealty policy. But having done it the other way now, I really did like using ETRs univerally while fixing my middlegame food hunger in non-capital cities with Asceticism, and I'll try that in my next game even without Morrocco.

One thing that is sad about ETRs though is they get plundered a lot, especially if you send them to Civs instead of to CSes. The geometry of my CS routes largely saved me from that in this game, but I can imagine it might be a pain in other circumstances with the tempermental Deity AIs. By contrast you can keep your ITRs pretty safe from plunder even in war usually.

 

[skodkim]

Are we anyway near a new release (hotfix or full)? Would be nice not to start a new game just before a release Just asking for info, don't mean to push.

\Skodkim

 

[Stalker0]

One of the best Autocracy uses of AI I have seen in some time (this is on Immortal).

Spoiler :

Denmark declares war.

1) First turn: Phitsanulok taken (and not for lack of defenses, just pure hammer).
2) Second Turn: Tyre gone
3) Third Turn: Braga taken
4) Fourth Turn: Carthage removed from the map.


I am genuinely terrified right now! I actually nuked him on my far east continent just to create a screen so I can focus on my mainland. I still have a real shot at DV but its a loooooooong way to that hegemony vote. We will have to see if the power of Order's home defense bonus can hold me out long enough.

Oh and of course, the god-killer, the greatest Ship in the Seas. My light tanks (in open terrain) are doing 5 damage a pop to this guy.

Spoiler :

Update: Not looking good, and I don't have a Gandalf to save me....

Spoiler :

Update: What do you do against such reckless hate? You die.

Spoiler :

In less than 20 turns, I went from the most advanced civilization, on the brink of DV....to dust. Slow clap for the AI, I never saw it coming. Denmark was a threat to my colonies, but he was far away, and a far off AI could never directly challenge me. I had a full military supply, good defensive buildings I was ready. I knew nothing....

 

[amateurgamer88]

One of the best Autocracy uses of AI I have seen in some time (this is on Immortal).

Thanks for the post! I've recently started playing again on Emperor and have a Denmark becoming quite a threat too. Was thinking of turtling up but your post convinced me to go on the offensive instead.

 

[DeAnno]

How many policies does Denmark have? This is one of those situations where airports in puppets can make a huge difference as you can concentrate a million bombers and wreck city after city, and it plays well to the AI's unit spamming ways, yet I see the cities it's using seem to have 2 planes in them each, so it probably doesn't have Air Supremacy yet.

 

[Stalker0]

How many policies does Denmark have? This is one of those situations where airports in puppets can make a huge difference as you can concentrate a million bombers and wreck city after city, and it plays well to the AI's unit spamming ways, yet I see the cities it's using seem to have 2 planes in them each, so it probably doesn't have Air Supremacy yet.

11 policies, and I agree with you, I was fully expecting a compliment of 6 planes with each city, but its not. However, by the number of bomber attacks against my cities he definitely has a lot of planes.

 

[youngsteve]

That was quite frightening how AI Denmark reacted in that game. I always start out going authority from start whoever I play now & going offensive. Before, unless I was playing an offensive civ always played defensive. Do you think the game is really gone too far in the favour of offensive warlike civs, as it seems to have.

 

[Recursive]

That was quite frightening how AI Denmark reacted in that game. I always start out going authority from start whoever I play now & going offensive. Before, unless I was playing an offensive civ always played defensive. Do you think the game is really gone too far in the favour of offensive warlike civs, as it seems to have.

Honestly, that's making me pause.

I'm wondering if perhaps the AI could use fewer unit supply advantages. @Stalker0 are you playing with the alternative difficulty mod?

 

[Stalker0]

Honestly, that's making me pause.

I'm wondering if perhaps the AI could use fewer unit supply advantages. @Stalker0 are you playing with the alternative difficulty mod?

I'm not. Now before we get carried away here, in hindsight I should have dealt with the Danes more directly. He had 40 cities before he came on my door step, and there were things I could have done to better prepare (annex some of my puppets to get them more defensive, more citadels and forts, a stronger beeline down the south side for military techs).

I just got comfortable, thinking that the Danes would never get to my shores and threaten me directly. But the AI has gotten too smart, and that is wonderful to see. But I am still seeing a mix, I am still seeing runaway science civs be my opponent plenty of times, its just that now warlike civs are actually contenders in the late game, as opposed to before where I just felt sorry for them as I teched me way to godhood.

No need for nerfs yet!

 

[Recursive]

Oh geez, I just looked at that first picture and his score was close to 3x yours.

I'm not. Now before we get carried away here, in hindsight I should have dealt with the Danes more directly. He had 40 cities before he came on my door step, and there were things I could have done to better prepare (annex some of my puppets to get them more defensive, more citadels and forts, a stronger beeline down the south side for military techs).

I just got comfortable, thinking that the Danes would never get to my shores and threaten me directly. But the AI has gotten too smart, and that is wonderful to see. But I am still seeing a mix, I am still seeing runaway science civs be my opponent plenty of times, its just that now warlike civs are actually contenders in the late game, as opposed to before where I just felt sorry for them as I teched me way to godhood.

No need for nerfs yet!

Always happy to see the AI thriving!

 

[Recursive]

One of the best Autocracy uses of AI I have seen in some time (this is on Immortal).

Spoiler :

View attachment 592763

View attachment 592764

Denmark declares war.

1) First turn: Phitsanulok taken (and not for lack of defenses, just pure hammer).
2) Second Turn: Tyre gone
3) Third Turn: Braga taken
4) Fourth Turn: Carthage removed from the map.


I am genuinely terrified right now! I actually nuked him on my far east continent just to create a screen so I can focus on my mainland. I still have a real shot at DV but its a loooooooong way to that hegemony vote. We will have to see if the power of Order's home defense bonus can hold me out long enough.

Oh and of course, the god-killer, the greatest Ship in the Seas. My light tanks (in open terrain) are doing 5 damage a pop to this guy.

Spoiler :

View attachment 592765

Update: Not looking good, and I don't have a Gandalf to save me....

Spoiler :

View attachment 592766

Update: What do you do against such reckless hate? You die.

Spoiler :

View attachment 592768

In less than 20 turns, I went from the most advanced civilization, on the brink of DV....to dust. Slow clap for the AI, I never saw it coming. Denmark was a threat to my colonies, but he was far away, and a far off AI could never directly challenge me. I had a full military supply, good defensive buildings I was ready. I knew nothing....

In fact, they're thriving so much that they TOOK JERUSALEM!

Spoiler :

 

[stii]

Honestly, that's making me pause.

I'm wondering if perhaps the AI could use fewer unit supply advantages. @Stalker0 are you playing with the alternative difficulty mod?

I don't think it is the huge supply I think it is more that the AI really benefits from higher move units. So later on when units have more movement points they find it a lot easier to use their larger forces to win a war. In the early/mid game they often have lots of units, they just can't push forward fast enough because the high move units can't take cities

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Man, i just wanted to have fun.

Spoiler :

View attachment 592547

With all the ongoing discussion in policies thread, Artistry,Tourism and Egypt i wanted to try cultural victory using that start with some rules i put for myself as the following:

• Do not accept voluntary capitulation offers
• No TGOG
• No Musician bombs, only from per turn and historic events.
• No conquests after the industrial era, so no playing games with Autocracy's ridiculous military power.

Playing as Arabia on Standard size 8 civs and 16 Communitu_79a default settings with strategic balance Immortal difficulty Epic speed with no events and ruins on.
The game ended at 443, 1853AD with Cultural victory.

Spoiler :

After a poor start thanks to India taking the desert pantheon and both India and the Incans who happened to share the same continent with me founded a religion very early i did manage to come back and cruise ahead starting in the Renaissance era.


Religion:
With my incencse monopoly and Bazaars i barely managed to found last with Springtime pantheon ,Apostalic tradition, Pagodas then enhanced with Haghia Sophia with Cathedrals and Symbolism. reformed pretty late with Inspired works.


Wonderes:

• Pretty much all the Ancient wonders were taken before i even managed to research their techs besides Petra which i beelined.
• Classical Era HG was gone by the time i got to classical era so I took Roman Forum and Terracotta with no chance at anything else besides Angkor wat which i took for the mandir in capital.
• Medieval i only got Haghia Sophia and the rest were also gone by the time i researched their techs.
• Renaissance: This is when things changed, i got All of the renaissance wonders except Redfort, Globe theatre and Himiji castle.
• Industrial: All the wonders besiders Westminster palace that no one built till the end of the game.
• Modern: Not that many wonders to build, got Prora, Corporate, Cristo redentor, and Empire state Building.
• Atomic: Got Pentagon and won the game.

Policies:
Authority>Artistry>Imperialism>Autocracy.

I went with my Authority plan hunting barbs and tributing but there was no way i could try to wage any war with the technolgically advanced Incans whose lands were nothing but hills and mountains that forward settled both me and the Indians severing any hope i had of conquering India before dealing with them first.
I went to war like 3 or 4 times with the Incans managing to only take one city each time with losses on my part larger than what i usually do due to how rough the terrain was but in the End at the renaissance era i took his capital forcing him to capitulate.
The war against india in the Renaissance era was not that hard, for some reason he had no units but garrisons stationed to defend his mainland cities while the rest of his army are stationed in a big islanseparated by a 1-tile sea housing 6 more cities of his, took his capital as fast as i could and forced him to submit and called it a day and never went to war after that whether offensively or defensively.
The moment the world congress convened i knew who i will be struggling to influence; Tradition Egypt the score leader and Authority Carthage with her Vassal, the Ottomans that she took his capital.
I managed to influence Carthage around 1750 AD but Egypt took more time until 1844 AD, i had to vote to remove his sanctions, and sent a diplomat to his capital, delete my land trade routes to send cargoships to his cities, he chose Order so it made it even harder to convert him and of course he never gave me an open border and had over 40 cities following his religion (only him and the Celts founded on the other continents that housed 5 AIs) so no bonus for shared religion either and i could not pass neither a world religion nor Passport system.
Nontheless I managed to eventually influence Egypt at turn 440 and got the CEP built at turn 443 using 3 Generals i had with Lebensraum.
Some points i'd like to add to point to:

• While GM bombs do make CV easier, it's by no mean a necessity to win.
• Per turn from GW and historic events from Artistry tree do generate steady flow of that i don't think it needs any flat tourism.
• CV is still the earliest victory condition achievable after domination and i don't think it needs any buff, in fact a nerf would be more suitable for how easy it is to achieve.

EDIT: I also ran into the same issue @Stalker0 mentioned earlier with Pledges of protection despite being over the supply cap.... strange tbh, i did not run into it before.

 

[kttdestroyer]

Hello!

So i wanted to raport än issue.

I had a defensive war but managed to capture a city of enemy, i don't want the city i just wanted to put myself in better negotiation position.

After i captured the city i contacted enemy and wanted to give it back for nice sum of money but my trade panel have "cities" grayed out! It says i have no cities to trade..

I waited for the city to fully heal since i thought that was the problem but still can't trade...

Where is the problem? Do I need to build a courthouse to trade?

If that's the case it's quite unrealistic, capturing areas and cities was and is standard way of putting yourself into good peace negotiation spot if you look at history

 

[Stalker0]

Oh geez, I just looked at that first picture and his score was close to 3x yours.



Always happy to see the AI thriving!

With all the ongoing discussion in policies thread, Artistry,Tourism and Egypt i wanted to try cultural victory using that start with some rules i put for myself as the following:

• Do not accept voluntary capitulation offers
• No TGOG
• No Musician bombs, only from per turn and historic events.
• No conquests after the industrial era, so no playing games with Autocracy's ridiculous military power.

Playing as Arabia on Standard size 8 civs and 16 Communitu_79a default settings with strategic balance Immortal difficulty Epic speed with no events and ruins on.
The game ended at 443, 1853AD with Cultural victory.

A possible counterpoint game to my statements before, wonderful, I'm glad you ran such a game

Do you have any saved games of this I could look at? (with your modmod list please). Any and all saves I'll take, I want to dig in and try to understand your tourism production for such a game.

Also check me, is 443 "fast" in an epic game? That seems pretty quick to me.