pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Buganda

[Kankan]

Or Somalia. But yeah the Dhow is a weird unit to give to Aksum, especially as the military unit. I think the Shotelai would have worked fine.

Songhai’s unit has a similar issue as the model of it is wrong and looks more like the soldiers of the Kingdom of Benin (Songhai’s soldiers in reality are predominantly depicted wearing turbans)

 

[notNamed]

Or Somalia. But yeah the Dhow is a weird unit to give to Aksum, especially as the military unit. I think the Shotelai would have worked fine.

IIRC Shotelai have absolutely nothing to do with Aksum and are first attested sometimes in the early modern period.
They get used for Aksum because we know naught about Aksumite equipment (or more accurately, there are no standouts that games like AoE/Civ fetishize over) and Aksum itself is used as "old Ethiopia" rather than the historical state. Since Shotelai came from Ethiopia (and much later), it is fair game. It's kind of like giving highlanders with greatswords and kilts to Ancient Celts, really.
At least that's how I remember the situation from when we tried looking them up in detail when the same Aksum + Shotelai combo dropped on Humankind.

Though I don't know if the dhow association is any better. Whether there's solid evidence behind it or simply "well Aksum held a tight grip on the Red Sea exit and that area was also the center of Arabic naval trade that used Dhows so eeeh close enough."

 

[BlueWildRye]

IIRC Shotelai have absolutely nothing to do with Aksum and are first attested sometimes in the early modern period.
They get used for Aksum because we know naught about Aksumite equipment (or more accurately, there are no standouts that games like AoE/Civ fetishize over) and Aksum itself is used as "old Ethiopia" rather than the historical state. Since Shotelai came from Ethiopia (and much later), it is fair game. It's kind of like giving highlanders with greatswords and kilts to Ancient Celts, really.
At least that's how I remember the situation from when we tried looking them up in detail when the same Aksum + Shotelai combo dropped on Humankind.

Though I don't know if the dhow association is any better. Whether there's solid evidence behind it or simply "well Aksum held a tight grip on the Red Sea exit and that area was also the center of Arabic naval trade that used Dhows so eeeh close enough."

The Aksumite vessels strongly resembled dhows, so I'm sure that's the main reason. Do we know what Aksum called its own ships? Likely not, or else Firaxis would have named the unique unit that instead.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

IIRC Shotelai have absolutely nothing to do with Aksum and are first attested sometimes in the early modern period.
They get used for Aksum because we know naught about Aksumite equipment (or more accurately, there are no standouts that games like AoE/Civ fetishize over) and Aksum itself is used as "old Ethiopia" rather than the historical state. Since Shotelai came from Ethiopia (and much later), it is fair game. It's kind of like giving highlanders with greatswords and kilts to Ancient Celts, really.
At least that's how I remember the situation from when we tried looking them up in detail when the same Aksum + Shotelai combo dropped on Humankind.

Though I don't know if the dhow association is any better. Whether there's solid evidence behind it or simply "well Aksum held a tight grip on the Red Sea exit and that area was also the center of Arabic naval trade that used Dhows so eeeh close enough."

From what I've read the Shotel itself dates back to the Kingdom of D'mt, which was located in present-day Eritrea and Northern Ethiopia, which of course that region was then eventually absorbed into the Askum Empire.

I assume if (Modern) Ethiopia gets in they would get something more advanced regardless, like the Oromo Cavalry or Mehal Sefari of past games.

 

[notNamed]

From what I've read the Shotel itself dates back to the Kingdom of D'mt, which was located in present-day Eritrea and Northern Ethiopia, which of course that region was then eventually absorbed into the Askum Empire.

Where did you read it, then? Of course if we get a source of some archeological find dating to that period or a contemporary source describing the shape of the sword it's fair game.
I just don't remember us being able to find anything like that.

 

[BlueWildRye]

Where did you read it, then? Of course if we get a source of some archeological find dating to that period or a contemporary source describing the shape of the sword it's fair game.
I just don't remember us being able to find anything like that.

Wikipedia was where I saw it. I didn't take the time to look at citations.

 

[notNamed]

Wikipedia was where I saw it. I didn't take the time to look at citations.

There are none on the English wikipedia.
It came to me in a dream... ChatGPT said... Excuse me, mate, were you there...

 

[cuc]

There are none on the English wikipedia.

A quick search led to an Ancient Origins article (unscrupulous site, not gonna link it): "The earliest evidence for the use of the shotel is the Damotian civilization".

Fabricated: most likely. A claim that existed on the internet: that part is true.

 

[8housesofelixir]

The thing about the Cree assets in VI most likely being for Haida makes me wonder if the units and some of Aksum’s ability and policies were originally meant for Kilwa but then they realized they had too many exploration age civs planned?

I suppose (the possible) Ming Great Person list moved into Han is also a case of Exploration civ designs being repurposed into Ancient civ designs.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

Small question: what happens to unique improvement when the city is conquered? Does it stay intact, contrary to the instant destruction from civ 6?

I ask, because the Kabaka's Lake do take bonus from lakes, which is huge with the Buganda that have several, but would be mostly useless for other civ... So their settlements would be of little interest for the ennemies, since their yields would be rather disminished upon seizure...

 

[AriochIV]

Small question: what happens to unique improvement when the city is conquered? Does it stay intact, contrary to the instant destruction from civ 6?

I ask, because the Kabaka's Lake do take bonus from lakes, which is huge with the Buganda that have several, but would be mostly useless for other civ... So their settlements would be of little interest for the ennemies, since their yields would be rather disminished upon seizure...

I believe it was said in an earlier stream that unique improvements are taken intact with a captured city.

Normal improvements can be overbuilt by urban districts, so it seems reasonable to expect that unique improvements can be replaced by something else.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I believe it was said in an earlier stream that unique improvements are taken intact with a captured city.

Normal improvements can be overbuilt by urban districts, so it seems reasonable to expect that unique improvements can be replaced by something else.

Yes, in the very first livestream, they played as Rome and captured an Aksumite city. The Hawilti remained intact after the capture.

 

[BlueWildRye]

There are none on the English wikipedia.
It came to me in a dream... ChatGPT said... Excuse me, mate, were you there...

"Evidence of the shotel dates to Dʿmt and the Axumites, having been used by both mounted and unmounted warriors and used dating as far back as 700 BC. [citation needed]"
--Shotel, Wikipedia
Yeah, it's probably a fabrication, if it doesn't have a citation.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Where did you read it, then? Of course if we get a source of some archeological find dating to that period or a contemporary source describing the shape of the sword it's fair game.
I just don't remember us being able to find anything like that.

I guess all of you are correct that there doesn't seem to be specific citations of their use until the late Medieval period. Strange.