New Hotfix Version (12-15)

[IcyAngel]

A question: would it be possible to make allied city-states passable with naval units, like one's own cities?
Feasibility and desirability wise.

 

[Owlbebach]

How is it easier? Combat takes as much time on Marathon as on faster game speeds. I don't remember getting more than 2-3 levels on units I actually used for war.

I haven't played Marathon (i want to complete more than 1 game in 3 months), but Quick is harder that Standard and Standard is harder than Epic, actually MUCH harder. I think Epic Deity = Standard Immortal + 15% or something

Cambat is much easier cause yo do not face situations when you strike with (for example) Horseman and catapults and after 10 turns of war you enemy suddenly upgrades his units to Knights and builds Castles

 

[Ziad]

I haven't played Marathon (i want to complete more than 1 game in 3 months), but Quick is harder that Standard and Standard is harder than Epic, actually MUCH harder. I think Epic Deity = Standard Immortal + 15% or something

Cambat is much easier cause yo do not face situations when you strike with (for example) Horseman and catapults and after 10 turns of war you enemy suddenly upgrades his units to Knights and builds Castles

You only get in that situation if you don't pay attention to the tech development (eg: starting naval wars just before you (and AI) get guilds)

 

[Jarula]

Marathon is easier because you get lots of chances but also most fun.

 

[ElliotS]

Marathon Deity is easier than Immortal Standard. Your human military prowess is given such a huge advantage, and you're able to make so many more choices that advantage you.

 

[Lissindiel]

Scale AI handicaps then. XP nerf hurts AI almost as much as it hurts human players. And it's apparently hardcoded - found no way to disable this "feature".

 

[Asterix Rage]

Scale AI handicaps then. XP nerf hurts AI almost as much as it hurts human players. And it's apparently hardcoded - found no way to disable this "feature".

+1
A disaster. My humble opinion

 

[Asterix Rage]

On steam "Slightly Easier Promotions"

Tried with "EXPERIENCE_PER_LEVEL" set at 3 with Marathon
Does the job more and less but bad side effects are worst. Recon get x3 XP per tiles ! and Building_XP give x3 as well

If we could ajust the 2 unwanted effects... problem solved (almost)

<GameData>
    <Defines>
        <Update>
            <Set Value="3"/>
            <Where Name="EXPERIENCE_PER_LEVEL"/>
        </Update>
    </Defines>
</GameData>

<Authors>Mavoc</Authors> thx to him/her

 

[IcyAngel]

I actually like the reduced experience a lot - it makes military buildings and uniques (Zulus, Assyria, Sweden) much more potent. And war more difficult.

 

[Infixo]

Some like it, some don’t. The problem is that unlike many other changes and features, this one doesn’t have an option to switch on/off. Weird.

 

[IcyAngel]

Annoying detail: when capturing a city that can be liberated, you cannot access city-view to see what infrastructure the city has and so on. You have to choose what to do with the city straight away.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Annoying detail: when capturing a city that can be liberated, you cannot access city-view to see what infrastructure the city has and so on. You have to choose what to do with the city straight away.

Yeah, asking me, if it would be hard to code, liberate that city after some time like you can annex it later.

 

[Enginseer]

Annoying detail: when capturing a city that can be liberated, you cannot access city-view to see what infrastructure the city has and so on. You have to choose what to do with the city straight away.

It shouldn't be that hard considering I replaced the raze button function with view city function, but it does means UI modding and several playtests to see whenever you have added enough length to make another UI button and so on.

 

[Gazebo]

Some like it, some don’t. The problem is that unlike many other changes and features, this one doesn’t have an option to switch on/off. Weird.

It’s experimental.

G

 

[Asterix Rage]

It’s experimental.

G

Means It will be optionnal next release?

 

[tu_79]

Means It will be optionnal next release?

Means it will stay unless everyone's hating it, or it's causing problems.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Who else observed giant amounts of units in AI hand?
I read a lot of commentaries, AI is going far far over its supply cap, crippling itself. I dont know, if this is true, but I observe massiv unit production in AI hands, especially with warmonger civilizations like Japan or Aztecs, which cripple their money household massivly. Iam now at turn 215 and have 30 technologies, while Montezuma has 19 technologies and his capitol is sourrounded by Jaguar warrior, while i have already pikeman.
Also CS produce a lot of units, making tribute very hard (6 units at turn 34?).
This really should be adjusted.

 

[Asterix Rage]

Means it will stay unless everyone's hating it, or it's causing problems.

Since everyone doesn't play Marathon everyone won't hate it.
I play Marathon only. Since long long time ago. Marathon is my Standard Pace setting. 12-15 looks a punishment rather than anything else to me

It's causing problems.

For those who don't know, Marathon makes longer to get science and Building/WW/Units are more costly. I'm convince Marathon is easier than standard in some cases or not in some others. There are many reasons why we play Marathon but not to make it easier.
I played two 12-15 games to "experiment" the new XP mechanics. I was Washington and Alexander
I didn't notice anything harder or easier. Just boring.
- 240XP to reach level 4 means 80% of the units are level 3 max at the end of a long Marathon game. The 20% are mainly Recon Units if large map. Range attack units just become useless since they can't be specialised vs cities or units. Level 4 is 100 XP usually.
- Leveling up units is exiting and opponents coming with well trained units as well. All the micro achievements during a game makes the gameplay tasty. 12-15 just take off the fun.
- We have to deal with supply cap already. It was introdused to make combats smarter with less units. Fine. It doesn't make sense anymore since Units remain all the same fools.
- A nasty side effect : I was next to China. China and its supernatural logistic promotion. The only one to get it abviously. Was very unbalanced in front of my poor level 2 swordmen (120XP). Think about Ship of the line, Kris, B17 and so...

Wanted to make Marathon harder ? I'd love that
Focus instead on combat mechanics. Damage taken, HP, Flanking and Fortification Bonus, ...

And after all, Just Make It Optional to make the "everyone you said " happy. No need to wait for hatred

EDIT : And it's not because the entire game take longer that war sequences take longer as well

 

[CrazyG]

I was one of the people who suggested slower XP gain on Epic and Marathon. However, I suggested it to be slightly slower, not scaled directly. For example, it takes 5 shots with an archer to reach level one, I would suggest making that 6 shots on epic and 7-8 on marathon. So you level only slightly slower to compensate for the more turns available to fight

Optional also makes a ton of sense

 

[BiteInTheMark]

.....So you level only slightly slower to compensate for the more turns available to fight.....

First, the war last as long as in standard speed, there is nothing that slows you down in epic or marathon.
Second, you need more hammer to produce a unit in the same amount the game lasts longer. The overall unit production should be the same in standard, epic or marathon. Asking me, where does the additional experience come from, if you kill the same amount of units in all three speed settings?

All this would make only sense, if you reduce the damage done by -20%/-40% (discussable) and also the regeneration by this amount for all. This would lead to more necessary attacks which would lead to more xp generation in general. And it would decrease the advantage of warmongering in slower gamespeeds.