New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Matt0088]

At first glance, the inclusion of Industry looks good.

Reserving a spot now!!!

 

[Daftpanzer]

At first glance, the inclusion of Industry looks good.

Reserving a spot now!!!

Thanks, I was thinking like a wealthy trading power should not necessarily be able to spawn masses of warships out of nowhere, etc.

 

[Frozen In Ice]

That looks like a lot to handle Daftpanzer, but if that NES ever becomes a reality I would definately join! As I was reading the modules I thought that maybe you could add something along the line as "hangars" so that maybe capital ships and larger could carry around light ships. Also, what's the difference between structure and armor; they look pretty similar.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

That looks like a lot to handle Daftpanzer, but if that NES ever becomes a reality I would definately join! As I was reading the modules I thought that maybe you could add something along the line as "hangars" so that maybe capital ships and larger could carry around light ships. Also, what's the difference between structure and armor; they look pretty similar.

I think structure is like hp in dnd, while armor is like damage reduction. You get hit and your armor will prevent some damage, and your structure will absorb the rest. The armor prevents damage and doesn't need to be repaired most of the time, while structure needs repairs everytime its hit to get back to full strength.

 

[Matt0088]

Going through the first half of Daft's post a second time and more thoroughly, here's my comments/questions. I'll get to the second half sometime later.

-Is there any type of requirement for maintaining population, like food or welfare?
-Is a description for each system necessary? Won’t everyone just know simply from updates and the general background?
-Wouldn’t it be easier to simply put all the ship designs in one place, for ease of comparison and not constantly leaving them on the stats?
-Could fuel cells be stored on planets, and then given to FTL ships to leave? Also, fuel cells seem really expensive unless everyone is going to have a lot more than 8 eco and 3 industry.
-Eco is good.
-Industry is real good.
-Pop is good.
-Do tech bases equal universities and RCs in SysNES essentially?
-Colonists look good, but couldn’t you just do something like forced migrations to colonize? Also what about improving already colonized and somewhat developed bases and cities?
-Tech seems good, but couldn’t there be some system of tech diffusion to help those who haven’t specialized in a tech level at least research the basic techs and bonuses of it? Like ship designs, to ease workload among other things, I think all the tech levels and who’s researched what can be put in one spot.
-Map looks awesome, but not if it’ll take forever to make and update.

 

[Disenfrancised]

The rules look sound Daft, but you should really consider the timeframe you want each update will take, and limit players and gameverse size and streamline operations operations where you can. For example with SysNES if I can't fit a bonus or mechanic into automatically updating spreadsheet formulas I skip it.

That said I'd certainly play if you start it . Moar explicit details about the map system would be nice too .

 

[Lord of Elves]

So, theoretical stats for an Elder Scrolls NES, series' familiars will note the time-period based on the racial character of Redoran, placing this NES immediately before the betrayal or death of Nerevar and the Curse of Azura.

Great-House Redoran
Government: Familial Oligarchy
Racial Membership: 100% Chimer
Capital: Ald'Ruhn
Spending Points: 20/0/15
Army: 20 House-Guard Divisions, 30 Levy Divisions
Navy: 10 Levy Galley Divisions

 

[Daftpanzer]

@Lord of Elves that looks nice and neat!

Thanks very much for the feedback on my NES, I'm going to take a step back for a while as yes its too complex right now. It didn't actually seem so bad when I was playtesting, but that was with tiny startup empires. I want to have a mechanic where an Energy resource is used for travel and in battles, I think that can be done without such sprawling rules sections. Ship design will be simpler too but I want to keep the prototype mechanic.

@Matt I think the tech bases are similar yes. It sets a limit of safe tech spending and you get a little random free tech progress. As for Colonists, I think each race should get its own mechanics on that.

@Dis I like ambiguous timeframes I have actually been learning some Excell basics with formulas and concatenations and stuff so I plan to get some stat automation in. I need to write a section explaining the map.

As I was reading the modules I thought that maybe you could add something along the line as "hangars" so that maybe capital ships and larger could carry around light ships.

Yeah I've been thinking about that, maybe you could have ships with no FTL drive that depend on a mothership to get them places. I'll see what I can work into the next version of rules.

I think structure is like hp in dnd, while armor is like damage reduction. You get hit and your armor will prevent some damage, and your structure will absorb the rest. The armor prevents damage and doesn't need to be repaired most of the time, while structure needs repairs everytime its hit to get back to full strength.

Yeah I'd like it to be a choice of trying to avoid damage or just be able to absorb it. Armour would need repairing after a good beating, but that should be simpler than rebuilding the melted internals of a ship.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Interestingly, research has said that in the Umbriel book, it was established in canon that the Empire dissolved shortly after the Oblivion crisis and the provinces went their separate ways, possibly with the creation of several smaller kingdoms, or the unification of the fiefdoms of the different races into unitary factions.

The question becomes to me, what would be more interesting? A post-imperial NES taking place around forty years after the events of Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, or a pre-imperial NES?

 

[Terrance888]

The Great War III: Age of Kings
Use of Document: stat dump of development
Status: In Development
Time Period: Anything Remotly Medieval. Accepting Suggestions.
Setting: Ditto.
Ruleset: Working on a simple ruleset that will combine the diverse threads of income. We shall have:
Gold, for Spending. You have three taxes: a 2 gold per manpower tax which can be raised, a percentage tax on domestic commercial ventures, and tariffs on imports and/or exports.
UP, or Urban Power. This represents the smart-alacks who know how to make compicated stuff
and who live in cities. Sorta like Hammers in Civ. Generated by mines and cities.
AP, or Agricultural Power. This represents the agricultural products from the fields.

We definately will have a Manpower stat, which represents simply a number of men eligible of military service. We will also have a population stat which is everyone else.

We will have as simple army system as possible but still goes into unit tactics. Will use AIM aka EQ style. With UP and AP both eligiple for use as EP for certain units. Levies will cost Manpower and AP, while Knights will cost more UP ect. Will work on this for balance and ease of update.

Fuedal Systems: For most countires, the Sovereign owns half or less of their land directly. The rest are owned by councils of weak vassals and stronger Barons. The Lord must use force and guile to get as much forces for war from these units as possible, and to minimize possibility of revolt or betrayal.

Players. Each economic Update is a Year long. Each war update is 3 months

However, each will play but as a King. Not an ultimate rular of their nation. They will ahve private stats and such as needed to calculate success in their ventures.

Each will select a few others as their 'Children' and I will roll to see who dies, who gets assassinated, and which player will eventually head the nation after about 5-30 turns for the other player. Who is now dead.

Accepting Suggestings. Running maybe next year! Depending on Free time! Might do an old'fashioned Great War game! Please don't fudge this!

 

[Lord of Elves]

The Great War III: Age of Kings
Use of Document: stat dump of development
Status: In Development
Time Period: Anything Remotly Medieval. Accepting Suggestions.
Setting: Ditto.
Ruleset: Working on a simple ruleset that will combine the diverse threads of income. We shall have:
Gold, for Spending. You have three taxes: a 2 gold per manpower tax which can be raised, a percentage tax on domestic commercial ventures, and tariffs on imports and/or exports.
UP, or Urban Power. This represents the smart-alacks who know how to make compicated stuff
and who live in cities. Sorta like Hammers in Civ. Generated by mines and cities.
AP, or Agricultural Power. This represents the agricultural products from the fields.

We definately will have a Manpower stat, which represents simply a number of men eligible of military service. We will also have a population stat which is everyone else.

We will have as simple army system as possible but still goes into unit tactics. Will use AIM aka EQ style. With UP and AP both eligiple for use as EP for certain units. Levies will cost Manpower and AP, while Knights will cost more UP ect. Will work on this for balance and ease of update.

Fuedal Systems: For most countires, the Sovereign owns half or less of their land directly. The rest are owned by councils of weak vassals and stronger Barons. The Lord must use force and guile to get as much forces for war from these units as possible, and to minimize possibility of revolt or betrayal.

Players. Each economic Update is a Year long. Each war update is 3 months

However, each will play but as a King. Not an ultimate rular of their nation. They will ahve private stats and such as needed to calculate success in their ventures.

Each will select a few others as their 'Children' and I will roll to see who dies, who gets assassinated, and which player will eventually head the nation after about 5-30 turns for the other player. Who is now dead.

Accepting Suggestings. Running maybe next year! Depending on Free time! Might do an old'fashioned Great War game! Please don't fudge this!

Next year? You can't tempt people like that

I think an NES set immediately after the Norman Conquest might be intriguing.

 

[Terrance888]

I can have each player be a major noble fighting for better scraps and exchanges of vassals.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Also, an open invitation for those of you who like toying with stats, I am interested in making LONES more serious. If you're at all interested, head over and check out what I'm working with.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=369102

 

[Haseri]

Daft, I would love to help you build systems.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Regional map of Tamriel (debatable accuracy, Sancre Tor is as far as I am aware a fortress, though not a region

Spoiler :

Topographic map, fully accurate according to what I have read and seen within the game-world, on the company website, and on fan websites.

Spoiler :

 

[Angst]

DAFTPANZER I AM MINION AND WILL JOIN ALL NESes YOU PROPOSE AND/OR MAKE WE LOVE YOU.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Also, an open invitation for those of you who like toying with stats, I am interested in making LONES more serious. If you're at all interested, head over and check out what I'm working with.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=369102

What are you trying to do with your stats? Stats should be the current state of one's nation as reflected by the rules and the game play options for players.

1. Rules determine player choices in spending and other things that effect their nation
2. Using some methodology, Mod translates spending or other actions into effects that change the stats.
3. Players use new stats to make decisions about what to do next turn.

How do you want to change your game's stats: What they show, the rules, or turn effects methodology?

 

[Lord of Elves]

What are you trying to do with your stats? Stats should be the current state of one's nation as reflected by the rules and the game play options for players.

1. Rules determine player choices in spending and other things that effect their nation
2. Using some methodology, Mod translates spending or other actions into effects that change the stats.
3. Players use new stats to make decisions about what to do next turn.

How do you want to change your game's stats: What they show, the rules, or turn effects methodology?

I want to effect methodology, because over the course of the first few turns it's becoming apparent that there are no limits to the players' capabilities. I want there to be some sort of give and take between the players' determining the shape of the world, and the world determining the shape of the players' factions, instead of the former dominating the latter.

 

[Daftpanzer]

Wondering if this makes a bit more sense...

Spoiler DaftNESIV Space Travel Rules :

Star Travel

The stars of the galaxy are organised into 'Sectors', which can be thought of as provinces if you like. There is a unified travel cost within each sector. At the same time, most stars have lines connecting them with others, which don't respect the Sector boundaries. These lines do not represent 'star lanes' or wormholes, they just show where you can make easier journeys...

Linked by a bright line (binary/trinary/quinary? systems) - Fuel Cell cost is 0.
Linked by a faint line (proximity) - Fuel Cell cost is 1.
Unlinked, but in the same 'Sector' - Fuel Cell cost is 2.
Unlinked, but in an adjacent 'Sector' - Fuel Cell cost is 4.
There is a further +2 Fuel Cell cost is for every sector you wish to cross.

Note: when a faint line (proximity) connects to a system of bright lines (binary/trinary/quinary?), it can be assumed to be linked to all of them at once. This is to cut down on the number of lines on the map.

FTL Speed

Basically, an 'FTL drive mk1' allows a ship to travel a distance of 1 in one turn, and this will use one Fuel Cell. An 'FTL drive mk6' allows that ship to travel a distance of 6 in one turn, and this will use 6 Fuel Cells. And so on... Better drives are available through FTL research. While the max speed increases, you will always need one Fuel Cell for each unit of distance travelled.

Range / Safe Fuel Cell Usage (the 2x rule)

We won't exactly get into the complications of storing Fuel Cells on ships. But I will track how many Fuel Cells a ship has used since leaving any allied system where it might have been able to re-supply. The safe limit of Fuel Cell use is 2 multiplied by the ship's FTL drive rating. That is, two turns travel at full speed, IE a round trip to a nearby star. If you go over this limit, it is assumed the ship has been overloaded with Fuel Cells in advance, and you are risking accidents. By 4x some kind of mishap is almost certain. The exception is when you fit an Energy Matrix Module, which allows a ship to reach 4x safely and makes 8x the danger limit. arg this doesnt make sense neither!

Ship Maintenance and Staying in Touch: IMPORTANT

Note that unless you have Quantum Communications (Special Invention), your ships will be out of contact when they are outside your settled systems. Like the seafaring days of old, you must give careful instructions beforehand or leave the captains with free will, then wait for them to return home and report.

Also, ships cannot normally be maintained while in deep space - you won't be asked to pay upkeep, but the condition of the ships will deteriorate over long voyages. Fitting an Engineering Bay Module can alleviate this. The same thing will happen to your home fleets if you decide to cut their upkeep.

@Haseri I don't have systems exactly in my NES idea. I did to start with, but its all been abstractified. Now a star has a load of slots/zones, possibly Bio, Mineral, Gas, Energy etc, with different colonisation costs. But as in SLYNES you'd be able to decide what planets actually exist to fit the basic description on the map.

@lord_joakim err thanks

 

[Matt0088]

Even though there will be FTL travel, there will not be FTL communication? Wouldn't communication between systems of empire, just domestically, be a bit hard then? Otherwise, looks great, and simple to manage.