New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Shadowbound]

The best of both worlds, a decent SpaceNES and I don't have to mod it.

One thing you should look at is detailed stats for the planets themselves, my reworked ruleset actually has more categories for a colony than it does for the federal-level empire stat. Giving individual planets flavor, and even divisions of a single planet between multiple powers, makes the universe both larger and more personal.

 

[Bil]

What I wanted to do with planets is give each one a sort of "size value" that designates not only how big it is, but actually how many "tiles" are present on its surface. Each tile has an individual value towards certain production, and the player can build facilities on each tile (or, rather, more like "zoning" the tiles toward a certain end, instead of just a single building) to harvest/improve these values. Generally, every planet will have certain mineral values on each tile (though, some might not have any, and several will likely have a far too low value to make it worth the cost of building a mining complex), though only habitable planets can have food values (which also have to be built on to harness) and it would require hydroponic technology to produce food on non-habitable planets. Tiles with too low of value can either be left alone or developed in different ways, such as building residential, commercial, industrial, etc. on them and relying on other facilities or imports from the rest of the empire to meet material demands. To take over a planet, each tile must be secured, or at least removed of enemy units, and any developed tiles have to be occupied (and they can even have defensive capabilities themselves, without having military units actually defending them). Until a planet is secured, it can't really be used to build anything new.

Unfortunately, this would be pretty complex to keep track of for dozens to hundreds of planets, and so it might be far too much to handle for a NES. Instead, I might just have each planet have a basic rating for resources (Minerals: 8, Arable: 3, etc.) and then can have levels of development that show how much of those values are being taken advantage of (Mining: 5, which allows you to employ 5 out of 8 mineral "points", Farming: 3, which allows them to use all 3 food "points"). More specialized or unique structures can merely be listed or designated somehow (starport, space station, super-observatory, whatever). The planets can still have a size value, which will determine how much population it can handle, based on some kind of habitability rating or some such. When invaded, every round of battle will change the percentage of ownership, until one side has defeated the other in some way. So, you could invade a planet, but not overwhelm its defenses (so you could control 30% of its surface) and then on the next turn, press the attack or withdraw or loot, and so forth, until you can hopefully take over 100% of it and then it's your planet.

I'd have to say that a newly-conquered planet couldn't be used by the new government until the next turn, giving them time to establish order in the population. Depending on the "native" population, the occupiers might find themselves the owners of a productive and obedient new colony, or they might end up pouring resources into suppressing a rebellion and trying to keep the peace.

 

[Terrance888]

Maybe make it in a universe where gravity doesn't grow exactly relative to mass... Therefor life overall is the same, but solar systems can be much closer due the the more unlikeleness of them riping each other up!/Science

Maybe operational control can start when 50% of the planet isn't disrupted (aka looted or enemy regaining control) for 2 turns, then you can build forces and gather resources, even with resistance (like Afganistan: resistance from taliban, but still able to work in safer areas, or Baghdad's Green Zone)

Maybe have a Macro Map with 8-9 clusters, then a close up at every group, with clusters getting 8-20 hexes, then have cluster maps? So a starting goal might be to rule a sub-cluster of solar systems, then a sector, then an entire cluster, after that, grow stagnates until hyper-space technologies or fixing a stargete maybe?

So, say, a map 5+7 with 2 small clusters. Each hex is 10 LY, each cluster is 3 Hexes.

Cluster A is 3 groups of 10 clusters, plus closeby materials aka clusteric asteroid belts or stalite systems, perhaps 4-5 systems each?

Then, these are like cradles of civilizations where players develope and conquer, and try to reach the other clusters?

I have a good name... This will be the Hongrath Arm of the Renithacora Galaxy, which is infused and overdosed with life-potental by the remants of two smaller galaxies. Change the name if you wish, but this means lots of races...

You can call me Charles the Ramber... I am still not sure exactly what you want... PM me an example of a map, maybe a map example... I can try to help... I'm here for more than 2 years!

 

[Bil]

I'll throw together some basic examples for the maps and post them, so you can see what I'm talking about. I wasn't really worried about explaining why life was so abundant, I was just going to say something like, "In this galaxy, for whatever reason, life is anywhere, and it's not important for you to care about why."

I've got a list of race stats that I feel might be good to use. There are actually a lot of stats, now that I think about it, but I think that if I compressed them any it'll end up causing some of the races to be too generic. Maybe I'm just over-thinking it, though. I'll post the list.

Spoiler :

Strength: affects melee combat, construction, mining; physical actions in general
Agility: affects difficulty to hit in combat, acrobatics, stealth, etc.
Dexterity: affects accuracy, quality of fine manufacturing, etc.
Endurance: affects damage that can be taken in combat, tolerance for hostile environments, resistance to disease and poison, etc.
Intelligence: affects research ability, rationality, cognizance, etc.
Psyche: affects resistance to all forms of persuasion, morale due to harsh conditions, sanity, etc.
Perception: affects ability to locate spies, locate enemy forces, etc.
Artistry: affects morale, relations with other cultures, etc.
Aggression: affects likelihood of demands for war, crime rates, etc.
Determination: affects ability to complete tasks, particularly those that might be imposing, etc.
Loyalty: affects diplomatic relations, unrest, etc.
Individuality: affects morale, unrest, diplomatic relations, etc.
Faith: extreme affects on morale

I was also thinking of a "psionic" stat of some kind, but I'm not sure if that should be something you can set, or based on other stats, or even left out entirely.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Hmm, seems pretty good. I wonder how some of them would really matter in the space age, especially when dealing with radically different alien races.

 

[Bil]

I had thought about that actually, but for the most part I think that they can all apply to something in a space-faring civilization. Even if it's just one thing, it might make a difference, though I feel that most things will have multiple applications. I'm just trying to think how I want them to reflect into other things, particularly when dealing with battles and such, because it won't just be stats vs. stats; technology and equipment will have a large bearing as well, if not more than the stats themselves.

Consider that when engaged in a space battle, the crew of a ship will need dexterity to operate their controls effectively (or it might have even caused them to create more efficient controls to begin with), perception will allow them to notice changes in the battle and new information arriving as the battle progresses, intelligence could determine how much data they can understand and how quickly they can mentally react, and a combination of determination, loyalty and aggression could actually determine how likely they are to press the fight, and even determine whether they're too willing to proceed with the fight. I wouldn't necessarily want to incorporate a check for each of these stats for each ship during each round of battle for every battle that happens, so I think I'd want to incorporate them all somehow into one or two "ship combat" stats of some kind. Maybe "battle skill" and "staying power" or something like that, and modify it with the training levels of the crew, the technology the ship has available to it, etc.

I'm afraid that it might be getting too complicated at that point, though, but I also don't want it to just be battles of one random number vs. another random number. I don't know, what do you guys think?

Also, if you want to suggest which stats to get rid of or merge into another stat, go ahead and explain please

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Well, I personally like doing things in a less numerical style, more reasoning out the course of a battle then writing about it than doing a bunch of bland calculations.

 

[Bil]

I would prefer that too, but I feel it might be more fair to the players to leave it up to numbers instead of "how the mod feels about it"; not that I'd be trying to have bias, but that I might not notice it if I do, for whatever reason. If the players wanted it to be less mathematical and more narrative, then I'd drop all these numerical stats and calculations in a heartbeat, but I can't guarantee that everyone would be onboard with it. I guess, really, I could just ask!

Stats or story? You decide.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Well, you've stumbled across one of the big debates in our community- statists and storyists. There's a continuum between the two, and I confess to being much more of a storyist. We certainly have no qualms about moderators blackboxing some things, and I think that most people are good at preventing any serious bias from interfering in their work.

 

[Ninja Dude]

NDNES IV: Couldn't Think of a Title

Yes, I have begun developing another NES. I was tossing around the idea during the summer, but a lack of a map kind of held me back. But now thanks to Iggy and Carmen, I managed to get my hands on the map used in Carmen's NES Seeds of the Earth, which unfortunently came to a halt (let's hope it makes a comeback!) With this map, I hope to make an enjoyable Non-Earth fresh start NES. I'd like to thank NK for letting me borrow some stuff from his ruleset for End of Empires. Without further ado, I would like to present a preliminary rule-set, as well as the starting map. Keep in mind that the rules may change depending on your opinions. It may also change as the NES progresses, depending on how far it gets.

Country Name:
Government:
Ruler or Ruling Group/Party:
Culture:
Manpower:
Army:
Navy:
Income:
Description:

Country Name: This is fairly obvious. This is what your country is called. I encourage you to name it in your country's/people's language. For example, The Italian Republic would be Repubblica Italiana and so on. I believe it will make things more detailed and interesting. If you feel the need, you can provide an English translation of your country's name if you wish.

I'd also like to note that I may allow players to play as something besides countries, as time goes on. But for now players will strictly be countries.

Government: Another fairly obvious one. The country's current form of government. Note that this can change, although there may be consequences, and it might even happen against the players' will.

Ruler/Ruling Group or Party: This is who rules the country.

Culture: This will list the different cultures and their influence in a country. The scale for culture is as follows:

Weak---Minor---Slight---Moderate---Above Average---High---All Encompassing

Note that this is how much influence a culture has in a country. Thus, it is very unlikely that many cultures will be at Above Average if one culture is at All Encompassing.

Manpower: How many people you can recruit into the military. This stat may also help reflect how many able bodied people are within your country, as well as how high your population is.

Army: This is the amount of troops currently in your army. Usually they will be divided up between levies, standing troops, calvalry, and other classifications as time goes on. When the actually NES starts there will be a price list for different units.

Navy: Basically the same thing as the Army stat, except for your naval forces.

Income: How much "gold" you can spend per turn. Feel free to come up with a name for your currency so that I can not use a vauge term like "gold" or "money". This number will be affected by nearly everything under the sun. Trade, irrigation, weather, religion, you name it, it affects this. Military upkeep is automatically deducted from this.

Description: this is a brief description of your country. Mainly will focus on its history and significant events of the past. However, current events may also be listed, as well as other interesting facts. This will be consistently updated unlike most NESes. Hopefully this will allow new players to jump into the NES with relative ease, instead of having to sift through 50 pages to learn their country's history.

And now finally here is the starting cradle. A little small, but it will quickly expand:

I'm working on getting the climate map eventually posted. Right now just imagine an Egypt-esque climate. Lots of deserts, although the many rivers allow civilization to flourish. Also, costal areas are slightly more hospitable than the average desert. The slimate map will likely explain all of this to you guys way better than I can

So, any thoughts on this?

 

[Bil]

I'm definitely interested in playing. I've sort of become very quickly addicted to these games, so I'll be in from the start!

 

[Matt0088]

Certainly interested Ninja; if I can, I'd like to reserve the spot at the start of the southern river.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Interested! I'll take a place inland, in the northeastern river mountain region, so I can't take advantage of any OOC knowledge I have about the map.

 

[Ninja Dude]

I'd also like to discuss the BT's and IT's that will occur in this NES. About the first 3 turns will be about 500 year-long BT's, in which you direct and influence your culture, not necessarily countries. Then, after the world has developed a bit more and there is an interesting selection of countries, we'll have some IT's. I'm thinking about how long they should be though. 5 years? 15 years? 50!?

 

[Terrance888]

I'm definitely interested in playing. I've sort of become very quickly addicted to these games, so I'll be in from the start!

This is one case of addiction, like that of food, drugs or gambling, that is actually good for you...

My grade goes up every time my NESing ban ends! And It goes down when mom bans me again! Grat's con catching the Nes flu!

 

[The Farow]

I will most likely join sounds like fun.

 

[Bil]

Ninja Dude, I think I want to reserve a spot in the northern mountains area, along where that eastern river runs out of the mountains. Anywhere in there, but that's the area I want to be in.

I think it might be a good idea to gradually decrease the gaps between turns (or the length of each turn, whichever way you're looking at the time frame). Start at fairly large gaps, like maybe 100 years (I think 500 year gaps is way too long for meaningful things to happen; consider a war between two nations, as they wouldn't wait half a millennium to launch their second offensive in the campaign, but they might have to wait a century early on due to population and supply constraints). After maybe 10 turns (1000 years going by), slow it to 50 years per turn (once major advancements and engagements can start occurring more frequently and more extensively), and then if it lasts long enough you can start slowing it down even further.

If you want to move it more quickly in the beginning, I think it should be 500 years/turn for maybe 2 to 4 turns and that's it. Considering that it represents a gap of 1000-2000 years, that's a huge chunk of history just sort of whizzing by, even if we aren't going to be getting all that much done in such an early time period. By roughly 500 BCE to 1 CE area we should start having some fairly small turn gaps. The Roman Empire wasn't built in a turn, and it surely didn't fall apart the following turn!

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Well, the early turns would take place on a more grand cultural scale, and not on a political scale, so the length problems aren't that serious.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Start at fairly large gaps, like maybe 100 years (I think 500 year gaps is way too long for meaningful things to happen; consider a war between two nations, as they wouldn't wait half a millennium to launch their second offensive in the campaign, but they might have to wait a century early on due to population and supply constraints).

Well early on, you will be controling a culture, not a country. This means you do not directly command a country's forces in a war. You can direct your culture to agressively expand into one area or attack a certain people, but only countries in which your culture has influence will be affected by these decisions. And given the timespan of the initial updates, countries are likely to engage in multiple wars and have multiple periods of peace.

If you want to move it more quickly in the beginning, I think it should be 500 years/turn for maybe 2 to 4 turns and that's it. Considering that it represents a gap of 1000-2000 years, that's a huge chunk of history just sort of whizzing by, even if we aren't going to be getting all that much done in such an early time period. By roughly 500 BCE to 1 CE area we should start having some fairly small turn gaps. The Roman Empire wasn't built in a turn, and it surely didn't fall apart the following turn!

Yeah, I'm thinking that only the first 2 or 3 turns will be BT's. By then things should be developed and interesting enough for players to truely enjoy some IT updates.

By the way, I'll most likely use something similiar to the End of Empires culture template for the begining of the NES. I believe it worked spectacularly in that NES, and I hope it will have the same sucsess in this NES.

 

[Matt0088]

With regards to the N3S - III EoE culture template, IMO it doesn't place enough importance on Language, especially since it is one of the main features of individual cultures(the others being traditions and beliefs). Otherwise, can't wait!