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New Official Version - June 19th (6-19)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Has Great Prophets spread been changed recently? I know the spread is weaker with an inquisitor nearby, but what I'm seeing is that my prophets are spreading with 900 power (which I assume is due to a building)....and yet the city still has a significant amount of the opposing religion left (before it would be flatlined to 0).

    I also want to say...I don't think there has been a single change lately that has made the AI look more like a brilliant evil pain in my butt than the citadel logic improvements. My god I want to tear my hair out at the AI every time they do it to me....and I love it:)
     
    Bromar1 and vyyt like this.
  2. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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  3. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    I should make note of how the AI is programmed here.

    Factors which increase peace desire:
    + Approach is something other than WAR
    + Being at war with multiple civilizations
    + Being at war for a long time without a city being captured (timer is reset when a city is captured), especially if approach is something other than WAR
    + Negative war score
    + High positive war score, especially if at 100 (exception: Cult of Personality ideology tenet)
    + War weariness (especially if unhappy)
    + Their cities are in danger (this factor increases if your units exert tactical dominance over the area around the city, or you have a high chance of capturing it)
    + The capital is worth 3x as much as a normal city for the danger value; original capitals from other civs or Holy Cities are worth 2x as much
    + War projection UNKNOWN or worse
    + War state STALEMATE or worse

    Factors which decrease peace desire:
    - Approach is WAR
    - Other player's cities are in danger (same increases and city worth as for them)
    - Their danger value = 0 and other player's danger value is > 0
    - War goal is CONQUEST (either they're going for Domination Victory or they hate you)
    - Other player is close to winning the game, and "No Victory Competition" isn't enabled
    - War projection GOOD or better
    - War state CALM or better

    Special conditions:
    ~ AI will always refuse to make peace for the first 10 turns of a war.

    ~ AI will always refuse to make peace if the enemy has a city in danger and the AI does not have a city in danger.

    ~ Sometimes the AI can't make peace for some reason (vassalage, coop war agreement, game options).

    ~ If a city was just captured, the AI will refuse to make peace for one turn if it has at least two combat units within 3 turns' range of the enemy's cities (that aren't projected to die next turn).

    I'm glad you like it! :)

    Can't take all the credit, ilteroi made some tactical improvements to that function as well - but it looks like blocking certain choices from consideration has made the AI more likely to use its citadels where they matter the most.

    Edit: Added special conditions and made a correction - positive war score actually increases peace desire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  4. frktest

    frktest Chieftain

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    Thanks a lot Gazebo, you have done a big big work. I'll begin a new game in the evening with the new version.

    Thank you also to all guys that cooperate to vox populi
     
  5. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    upload_2020-6-25_13-18-47.png

    I'm going to make my case one more time on the barbarian rebels that appear when your civ goes below 35%, it makes sense. Its thematic I get it. But I find it just so damn unfun. I'm usually at this level of unhappiness because I'm already on the ropes (in this case I am going through the usual every civ hates my guts and is attacking me phase).

    This level of unhappiness is already pretty punishing. I have a -20% to CS, and I'm about to lose a city unless I take care of it quickly. The barbarians on top of this just feel like a kick in the jimmies when your already down.
     
    Remos likes this.
  6. raul1980

    raul1980 Chieftain

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    Currently ~400 turns in as Spain, Continents Large, Immortal. Is this working as intended? The rest of the unhappiness is at fairly normal levels, but the distress is killing me. Or am I doing something wrong?
     

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  7. Revolutionist_8

    Revolutionist_8 Prince

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    Well, civil wars are nasty and shouldn't be easy :p

    You can turn off barbarians in advanced settings as a last resort, and no rebels will spawn.

    Although defensive wars' war weariness could be lowered a bit imo, I agree.
     
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  8. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    I agree that the massive barb spawn could probably be tuned down a wee bit. The fact an entire conscripted army (on par with your civ's tech level) instantly forms, and usually surrounds your capital, is sometimes a tad overkill; maybe lower the # of units spawned? I still like the feature though, and it plays both ways - this can be forced upon other civs if the roles are reversed. The consequences of floundering beneath the worst unhappiness level need to be dire and impactful. What I don't like, and which may actually be a bug, is when I dip under 35% for a single turn, but the barbs still trigger next turn after I'm back over the threshold.

    Ahh, so you're winning! Try doing less of that, partner, and I bet your barb problem doesn't even appear in the first place ;)

    I guess that city might not make it then, huh fella? It might decrease your chances of winning, eh? Seems to me the rest of the civs trailing you in the game are applauding those features which executed their intended function, allowing them a fighting chance at shaking up that leaderboard... :crazyeye:

    War. War never changes... Ain't nobody said any of this was gonna be clean or pretty now, ya hear? :cowboy:

    Hehehe, but in all seriousness, I get what your saying and wouldn't necessarily be opposed to some adjustment if others felt t'was needed. The fact is that losing anything in this game simply sucks and is not fun: wonders, city settling locations / plots of land, cities themselves during war (even losing just one city usually causes humans to abandon games, I'd imagine), high lvl units, etc.

    It is what it is though; tis' the nature of the beast.
     
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  9. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

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    I agree with you but I think its over tweaked this version. I just had rebels spawn two turns in a row - its tough to get out of my happiness downward spiral if I've got 4 units per turn spawning at my capital.
     
  10. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    What do they hate you for?

    That does seem strange. What does your empire look like? How many cities do you have?
     
  11. raul1980

    raul1980 Chieftain

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    21 cities at the moment. Not really a big empire.
    This is a screenshot of my capital, which is also my biggest city with 32 pops. Again, distress (and poverty to some extend) is the main factor of unhappiness.
     

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  12. InkAxis

    InkAxis Prince

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    I think barbarian spawning is fine except for in a couple cases. Sometimes you dip down below 33% happiness between turns but then when your turn starts you're back above that level. However, barbarians still spawn. You should have your happiness at that level for at least a couple turns before they spawn. Also, there should be a delay, they shouldn't spawn back to back.
     
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  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  14. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Prince

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    Got to finish my first game on this version [Emperor difficulty, Epic speed, Standard map size, 8 civs, 16 CSs, No ruins, Communitas map with strategic balance] with the hotfix, no CTDs or major bugs so far but a couple of minor annoyances.
    Had an okayish start, neither amazing nor terrible on a coastal tile with a couple of short rivers with Jade on flat grassland as my primary luxury and 3 horse tiles within the range of 3 tiles from the capital (animal husbandry was the very first tech i researched) so i went Shrine first then god of open sky and got progress which retrospectively may have not been the correct policy as i think i could have done much better with authority.
    My continent was nicely separated into two mini continents connected by a narrow stalk of land, on the northern part Me and The Maya my immediate neighbor to the east with space enough to settle just a single city between the two capitals (Spoiler alert: i got forward settled yet again), The Huns and Spain on the southern half.
    The four of us on my continent managed to found a religion (The Maya first followed by the Huns with their wine monopoly then Spain then the Ottomans) leaving the ottomans with an effortless to half of the game .... to no one's surprise all of the good stuff was taken, Hero worship and Reliquary were snatched first, Mosques and Cathedrals were also taken but Orders were not so i Founded with COE and Orders.
    Most of the early wonders were snapped before i got to research the appropriate tech anyway so i played like an authority civ ditching my plans to play it a bit slower and spike in the medieval era since i was not really going to be able to compete with the Maya in particular with my production-lite cities anyway.
    The first war i waged was on the ancient era after the Maya settled a city at the bare minimum distance from my capital breaking the connection between it and my other city, I barely managed to take that city and signed a peace deal ASAP since the Maya already got mathematics and their first skirmishers and Atlatists were on my borders.
    Waged another war on the Maya in the classical era after razing the crappy forward-settled city i captured earlier then resettling on a better location and settling two more cities on western part of the continent were the huns also settled two more cities ...... Pushed through the Maya defenses thanks to some nice river tiles around their capital then captured it and another city then signing a peace deal.
    Started to bee-line my Mandekalu Cavalry after which the game was just some sort of a joke, took the rest of the Mayan cities but one to force them to capitulate, Spain and the Huns declare a Joint war on my right after that but neither of them were any match to my 20 Mandekalu cavalry ripping their armies apart taking the 7 cities of the Huns eliminating them from the game and capturing the 5 cities Spain had on the main then forcing them to capitulate leaving me alone on the continent with 22 cities and more land and population than my closest competitor.
    Took fealty as my medieval tree since my cities were kinda crappy at that point, then got Imperialism which kinda made my empire float on yields thanks to the puppets, got most of the Renaissance era wonders then almost all of the Industrial era ones.
    Got my ideology around the mid industrial era choosing order and beelining Nationalization, got firaxite minerals corporation (the oldest trick in the book, i know) then i just ran away at that point; there was not really a competition once i got into atomic then info era within a couple of turns and the AI did not do nothing beside mass denouncing.
    Funnily enough when i started building the spaceship the ottomans DOWed me but was not even able to reach my coastal line and his frigates were being sunk by my heavy bombers, GDR soloed one of his island cities in the ocean which was kinda funny to watch.
    Finished the Space ship at turn 472 epic speed (around turn 310-320 normal speed) at 1882 AD with a tech lead of roughly 25 techs ahead of the Iroquis.
    Spoiler Songhai riding the spaceship :
    CivilizationV_DX11 2020-06-25 22-57-27-351.jpg

    The only issue i noticed this game was land ranged units unable to attack embarked units using the RMB unless you choose to perform ranged attack then select the target.
    The change to lighthouses and harbors is kinda okay that coastal cities does not feel as fortresses for land units anymore tho i have not actually used the navy at all that match so i cannot comment on it's effect on naval sieges being easier.
     
  15. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Does Venice get anything special for city CS? His CS puppets have ~95 CS where as the other solid cities in the world have ~70. I knocked out his garrison with a cruise missile and it dropped it to 64, a great drop (hey go cruise missile!) but still pretty darn high.
     
  16. Gizmoman

    Gizmoman Chieftain

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    Honestly I'm not going to complain about how you do your thing, but the cities of your that I do see are definitely not working on damage control for the happiness issue. You're making buildings and wonders while your happiness is down the drains instead of working cityprojects and trying to keep your empire afloat.
     
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  17. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    If by cities you mean city, than yes I am squeezing in a wonder from my capital that is key for my DV plans, as my capital has almost no unhappiness. All of my other cities are building units to hold off the 5 civs simultaneously at war with me or building buildings to fight unhappiness (just as Adwa is building a museum to combat boredom).
     
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  18. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    That kind of does sound like a lot of cities tbh. Still, it's a bit hard to tell without knowing what those cities look like and what your general situation is.
    Not that I'm aware of. That does seem pretty high. Just thinking of possible factors: fealty, higher tech level (e.g. arsenals), possibly religion? Not sure if there are any beliefs or buildings that increase city CS.
     
  19. Vhozite

    Vhozite Chieftain

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    Don’t Orders do that?
     
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  20. Gizmoman

    Gizmoman Chieftain

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    I see two cities, although Adwa could be a puppet for all I know. I can also see a bunch of cities on the sidebar, and I can see your capital having more unhappiness than happiness from that sad face icon.
    And building museums isn't what I'm talking about, that's longterm stuff, you're in the 30%s, you could be doing city projects to reduce unhappiness right now (the hammer to X conversions) trying to build units while that much in the red isn't going to do anything either.
     
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