New SG - Monarch, Standard Settings, Continents, Large Map

hehe not sure what vanilla is.. heck, that evil ralph and liq are using blue marble at the very least!!!

bad bad people!

Well looking over the save, a few comments.

lot of tiles need work, a few more workers seems prudent.

Why do neither Rome nor Antium have light houses? Both towns have multiple seafoods such that I cannot imagine why these buildings were never whipped.

There seems space to pick up that stone and work the tundra horses I mean a free deer as well isn;t bad ... not a pretty town but it's upkeep should be low as it's next to capital and those tiles would be going to waste.

Also what in tarnations happened to hammys power? I'd post a screen but photobucket is down for me still. nevermind, what in tarnations happened to OUR power :eek:

Man no wonder Pericles went vasslage, I'd expect a dow soon to be honest.


Cheers!
-Liq
 
So Scrubkai have you got it now?

A few replies
@Frankcor- The latest version of BUG resolves Log crashes so is fine.
@Liquidated - The lack of Lighthouses needs to be corrected but a few turns ago the lack of happiness resources meant the extra food would have been fairly irrelevant and since then they have been busy little wonder Hogs. Our power dropped dramatically as the AI' built Armies and we re-built our economy. You are right that Pericles may well be tempted to declare soon and building extra troops is now a priority (but not in Antium / Rom who will be on Forum and Lighthouse duties)
Neither of them have construction yet (we could dial up spying by 10% and in a few turns see Pericles' research which will give us Early warning)

Ralph
 
So I grabbed the game and played the turn last night.

Turn 1: We whipped one pop and got Pyramids
Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

The government was then set to Representation and we went into Anarchy for a turn.

Turn 2: We came out of Anarchy and I flipped around the worked tiles on a number of the cities to start growing again.
Pericles decided he wanted to expand and founded Rhodes south of the marble (screen shot below)

Turn 3: zzzzz

Turn 4: A few interesting thing happened as shown in the screen shot below:
Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg


Pericles got the great merchant and he started sniffing around by our spices.
We also got silver online for our empire boosting the happy cap even more.

Turn 5:
Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

Hammurabi got a great spy...

Turn 6: We discovered a spy right near our border with Hammurbi... Looks like we need to get some spys produced soon.

Turn 7: We completed Metal Casting, and I started us down the path to machinery. Also we had enough espionage points to check out Pericles research. He just finished up Math and started on Construction...

Turn 8: Pericles found Eretrin right next to "our" spices. Getting pushy isn't he. You can see the city in the screen shot below... Also you will notice that he is quite a ways from Construction.....
Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg

But to get our power back up, I whipped out the heroic epic.

Turn 9 and 10: Not too much, just started rebuilding our forces with a new praetorian from Cumae..


So that's were things stand. Looks like we have a few things to think about.
Pericles has pushed pretty far south. He has a number of cities, but no code of laws, so his economy has got to be dragging right now. I'm guessing he's only keeping it going with the Great Lighthouse.
He is working on construction, so I would expect a DoW in not too long. At most after he completes construction.

Hamm seems to be playing the spy game, and so we will want to get some defenses up against that attack soon.
Also - To get horses, it looks like we are going to need to found another city....Probably where it can get the horses, stone and deer...

Anyway here is the save everyone take a look and see what they think... And if you see anything I miss, constructive criticism is always welcome.
 

Attachments

Yeah, our neighbors aren't playing very nice. I think it is because they have forgotten the power, might, and glory of Rome. Soon they'll remember. I would vote for the Colossus and more military.
 
That looks like it was a good solid set. I've got the save and will take a look at it this evening -- I'm on my way to work right now.

Ralph suggested a turn ago that our economy was ready to found Silvertown. Is that still available or viable? Or do we prefer horses, stone and deer?

For now it looks like my priorities will be to build Praetorians and spies. I'll provide more detail this evening.
 
1. We should be in caste system!! This combined with max scientists in Antium and Rome would have us probably at +50 Beakers a turn which is huge. Come on team I do think we discussed this.

2. Silver town has been settled but there is a spot picking up horses, deer and stone .

3. Research, continuing the Optics beeline looks best. Crossbows will give us a good new troop option combined with Praetorians as war is coming. We can pick up maths in a trade with Pericles for C of L which seems worthwhile.

Lastly what is this worker up to!!!

wrongspot.jpg

a) If we want a cottage it should be riverside
b) Even better would be mining the 2 grassland hills due north of Cumae which can be worked with current food and maximizes production as this city is our Unit Pump.

I am off for the weekend so keep playing and trust me my mini- :whipped: are nothing compared to what Greyfox would give you!!

Ralph
 
Ok well is it safe to move this SG on over to the 3.17 patch or will it remain 3.13. I would normally not even ask this except well, 1.13 has some serious issues to say the least :mischief:

Never fun to change versions mid SG but well if there was a patch people wanted, 3.17 was it.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
1. We should be in caste system!! This combined with max scientists in Antium and Rome would have us probably at +50 Beakers a turn which is huge. Come on team I do think we discussed this.

2. Silver town has been settled but there is a spot picking up horses, deer and stone .

3. Research, continuing the Optics beeline looks best. Crossbows will give us a good new troop option combined with Praetorians as war is coming. We can pick up maths in a trade with Pericles for C of L which seems worthwhile.

Lastly what is this worker up to!!!

a) If we want a cottage it should be riverside
b) Even better would be mining the 2 grassland hills due north of Cumae which can be worked with current food and maximizes production as this city is our Unit Pump.

I am off for the weekend so keep playing and trust me my mini- :whipped: are nothing compared to what Greyfox would give you!!

Ralph

time to defend my thinking and let others tell me if I was wrong...

1) caste system - Last I heard it was suggested for down the road, but not agreed to by anyone for now. Plus as of right now much of our production is based off of whipping, so I would think that we would want to stay in slavery at least until we get our military rebuilt in case Pericles declares war faster then we expect.
2) Yes we have silvertown online and pumping out silver.
3) Agree on the optics beeline.
4) The workers building a cottage.... Why did I not build it next to the river? because we are just a few turns away from waterwheels, and it seemed to me that a production focused town would want waterwheels rather then cottages.
Also we have more improvements for Camae then we are currently working, and not quite enough food to grow like we want to, so I didn't work the grassland hills as I expected we would want to put a windmill there when we get the tech in a few turns. That would help with the both the production and food issues.
 
I'm not in any other SGs so I won't have to run dual versions to upgrade to the 3.17 patch -- no objection from me.

I see Silvertown (Ravena) has already been founded -- ignore my question ;)

But I have other questions, naturally. I'm a bit hesitant because I'm a newbie at BtS.

1. Ravena is working on a Granary, due in 9 turns but will grow in 7 turns. I'm inclined to switch to working the Copper mine rather than the silver which will bring the Granary in without whipping prior to the pop but will cost us 2 :gold:/turn. I'd switch back to silver when the Granary came in. Ravena needs to chop some space for a farm desperately.

2.Cumae -- I saw that worker. I suggest interrupting that cottage and build the two mines north of the city next, instead. By then it'll probably need a farm. I'm not sure we need our Heroic Epic city to be a hybrid diddling in commerce. I'd specialize it for :hammers:s only. We can finish that cottage after we own this continent. Does anyone mind if I place signs to remind everyone what the next improvements (2 mines and a farm) are needed there?

3.Antium is 5 turns away from losing a :mad: from the previous whipping. I would wait until then before whipping the Courthouse, but by then it might only take 1 population which may be a problem. I see Antium has a Praetorian scheduled next after the Courthouse. Do we want to switch to a forge for the Colossus wonder instead? It'd add Great Engineer points to the ones we get from Pyramids and would be a good fit besides it's other benefits.

4.Rome has a Great Scientist due in 3 turns. Any suggestions what to do with him? I would definitely avoid the whip in Rome -- it's a great GP farm. I suggest building a Courthouse there next for the +25% GP rate (maintenance is only 2/turn right now so it won't pay for itself in commerce). Rome also lacks a Barracks and I wouldn't build units there without one. Forum will complete in 3 turns. So I pose the question -- Courthouse or Barracks next? Or something entirely different.

That'll do for now. Please forgive me for being so tentative.
 
4) The workers building a cottage.... Why did I not build it next to the river? because we are just a few turns away from waterwheels, and it seemed to me that a production focused town would want waterwheels rather then cottages.
Also we have more improvements for Camae then we are currently working, and not quite enough food to grow like we want to, so I didn't work the grassland hills as I expected we would want to put a windmill there when we get the tech in a few turns. That would help with the both the production and food issues.

Lurker Comment

Been sitting here watching the :smoke: go by, but I feel I gotta say something about this. Cumae is your HE city, so at times it will single handedly be responsible for producing your military.

There's absolutely no reason at all why Cumae should have any commerce based infrastructure around at all. Hybridizing a city is usually a good way to weaken it. There are NINE hills in the BFC of that city. That is a warmonger's (and a wonder lover's) dream. There shouldn't be a single cottage in that city; all the land needs to be farmed over to have enough food to run mines on all the hills.

The windmills comment is faulty, as windmills heavily damage the production potential of a city. For more information, read this article by VoU.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169213
 
3.Antium is 5 turns away from losing a :mad: from the previous whipping. I would wait until then before whipping the Courthouse, but by then it might only take 1 population which may be a problem. I see Antium has a Praetorian scheduled next after the Courthouse. Do we want to switch to a forge for the Colossus wonder instead? It'd add Great Engineer points to the ones we get from Pyramids and would be a good fit besides it's other benefits.

That Praetorian and courthouse has been on the queue for a long time now. The Praet. was actually started before the last war when we didn't have anything else to put hammers into. It was actually three down for us for a while as started the courthouse, then completed the Mids and a lighthouse since those items got on the queue...

My thoughts for the city: We could really use a Forum. If we want to take the heath hit we could go forge/colossus, probably before the forum. As I rule I normally try to avoid unhealthy buildings in my GP city, but then I almost never get a great engineer.... Need wise I think a step below those items comes the courthouse.

Just my take, but as shown by my last two turns, I still have a ton to learn here....
 
Scrubkai, we're all learning here. It's one of the most compelling reasons for me to play SG games -- to improve my single-player games. I struggled making the transition from Noble to Prince level by playing Prince and Monarch SG games. And I'm hoping to make a full transition to Monarch level in a similar mode.

One of the reason most of us can play above our individual levels is that at regular intervals, we do the kind of micromanaging that it takes to play at higher levels. Notions like specialized cities get forgotten quickly when conducting a heated war campaign when I play on my own.

I am inclined to switch to the forge in Antium right away and save any whipping until it will get us Colossus. The downside is, the hammers we spent on that Praet may have faded away by the time all those builds are done.
 
Yap SG's are fantastic schools of learning. Sg's are great for illustrating how a few minute details, when taken together, turn into profound power shifts. Also good for hammering out areas of personal ignorance :D

Civ4 is a many splendored creature filled with meaningful complexity and much synergy. :)

Live and learn always while you glee in accusing friends of :smoke: moves. :lol:


Oh and get a good beer before opening the save.:beer:

Cheers!
-Liq
 
I played 15 turns, building valuable infrastructure and military units, made some trades, initiated an expedition and revolted, stifling yawns the entire time.
gaehn5.gif
I took Liq's advice and had a couple beers.

Inherited Turn (625 AD) I implemented some of the changes I suggested above in my micromanaging review before beginning this round. I switched from working the Silver mine at Ravena to the Copper mine to ensure the Granary would complete prior to the next population growth. I also interrupted the Worker building a Cottage at Cumae and sent him to build a mine north of the city.

I didn't make any changes in Antium at this point, waiting for the :mad: to fade from the previous whipping.

Finally, I moved the fog-busting Praetorian east of Ravena 1 tile south to provide better coverage,
owner01.jpg

then pressed Enter. (the first time I pressed Enter, BtS crashed ugly. It must have been a fluke or maybe it had something to do with me having about 25 other open applications running at the same time. Anyways, it only happened that one time.)

Turn 1 (640 AD) Neapolis finished a Lighthouse. Now that they had light to read by, they started a Library.
Carthage finished a Library. Now that they could borrow stuff to read at work, they started a Forge.

Turn 2 (655 AD) Hammy offered a healthy trade:
owner02.jpg

He was willing to trade Mathematics but wanted Literature and Code of Laws so I declined.

Cumae finished a Praetorian. He looked lonely so they started another.

I whipped the Forge started in Carthage last turn for two population points.

Turn 3 (670 AD) Rome finished a Forum. Now that they could buy stuff to read at work, they started a Forge.
Carthage finished the whipped Forge. WTH?!?!? I missed the picture, but I got hit with my first random event in an SG -- a careless worker started a fire in the brand new forge. The top option would have cost over half our treasury, the bottom one would cost us the forge, so I picked the middle one. This was a :smoke: because it cost 11 gold and we still lost the forge. The option didn't make it clear I would lose the forge. ::sigh:: So I shot the worker and started another Forge.

Aristotle (Great Scientist) born in Rome. He could start a Golden Age or lightbulb Mathematics (601 beakers). I joined him to Rome instead. He added 16 beakers/turn and we'll break even on that in under 40 turns.

Turn 4 (685 AD) Pericles offered a good deal:
owner03.jpg

I jumped at it. He too was willing to trade Mathematics but also wanted Literature and Code of Laws, so I declined again.

Turn 5 (700 AD)
gaehn5.gif


IBT: A barbarian city was captured by the Greeks. Our northern exploring Axeman had just glimpsed the borders of the barb city.

Turn 6 (715 AD) Cumae finished the Praetorian ordered up to keep the other one company. I sent the couple northwest on an expedition to seek out a possible barbarian city in hopes of giving them some experience points. I kinda got them interested in my notion by starting rumors about wild barbarian women living up that way who could not resist Italian men. There's a large corner of the continent there that appears to be unsettled. They'll meet up with our exploring Axeman when they arrive. Cumae started another Praetorian.
Ravena finished a Granary. Now that they can store their snacks, they started a Library. They can't grow past size 3 without a border pop so they really need the culture.
I interrupted the Courthouse at Antium and started a Forge as proposed above. So now we have a Courthouse and a Praetorian stacked up there (too many chefs?). I also have dispatched more workers to the area to start chopping for the Colossus. Mathematics would be really handy about now.

Turn 7 (730 AD) All those freakin' Libraries are starting to make our Scientists smarter and smarter:
owner04.jpg

Crossbowmen will provide some good protection against counter-attacking Macemen for our Praetorians.

I continued the beeline towards Optics by selecting Compass(5) next.

I whipped the Forge started at Antium last turn for 2 population points.

Turn 8 (745 AD) Rome and Carthage each finished their Forges and started to construct Barracks in hopes of encouraging their growing populations of Italian thugs to join the Army by giving them cool places to sleep. The workers at Carthage were a little more careful with fires around the forge this time, having observed the treatment applied to the careless worker the last time.
Antium also completed their Forge. Wishing to feel wonderful again, the people agreed to start the Colossus.

By now, the chopping was due to be completed over the next two turns. I rang up Pericles and offered a cheaper trade for us:
owner05.jpg


He took the deal. Knowing that he'd go straight to Hammy, I beat him to the punch:
owner06.jpg


Turn 9 (760 AD) Neapolis finished it's Library and in keeping with the established trend, began a Forge.

Turn 10 (775 AD) Cumae trained a Praetorian and started another. I sent the new one in pursuit of his comrades to join my grand expedition. The rumors are spreading.

The mine I started at Cumae is finished. They can now train a Praetorian in 3 instead of 4 turns.
owner07.jpg

S.ilver was right -- Cumae is a warmonger's dream HE city. I suggest chopping the hill north of that mine to speed up the forge that's being built there now.

We're growing well:
owner08.jpg


Turn 11 (790 AD) Carthage finished their Barracks and started training a Crossbowman.

Chopping is complete and I whipped the Colossus at Antium -- we'll be revolting to Caste System soon and they'll forget the whippings after a while.

Turn 12 (805 AD) We can find our way, now!
owner09.jpg

I continued the beeline to Optics by selecting ... er ... Optics(8).

Rome Completed their Barracks, started a Crossbowman. Why he's cross is beyond me.

The Antiumites are feeling Wonderful again:
owner10.jpg

(wierd, the movie stopped before the end. I had to click to get the interface back) Colossus picked us up a half-dozen gold/turn -- whoop-dee-doo.
gaehn5.gif
I let the Courthouse move to the top of the queue.

My final whip was the Forum at Hadrumetum.

Turn 13 (820 AD) Antium completed the Courthouse and went back to training that Praetorian.
Cumae finished a Praetorian and started a Forge(8). We can speed that up with a chop.
Hadrumetum finished the Forum, started a Barracks(38).

I revolted to Caste System and we had a good random event in Rome.
owner11.jpg


Turn 14 (835 AD) Anarchy
gaehn5.gif


Turn 15 (850 AD)
owner12.jpg

We're now running at 60% research with a positive cash flow. That knocked a turn off Optics, now due in 5 turns.

With all the building going on, I'm surprised to learn that we actually gained on the power curve:
owner13.jpg

We're at .7 ratio with Pericles and Hammy.

We're in 1st place in GNP and 2nd in production which may have something to do with our ability to pump out units while going on a building-binge.

We're lagging in food production but have plenty of happiness available. I suggest we discover Civil Service after Optics and start chain farming. CS will take 8 turns at our current rate which means we're cranking out almost 3 times the beakers that Hammy is right now.

We caught 2 spies on our border with Hammy. What does that Spy logo next to Hammy's name mean? I suspect it means we need to train some spies.

Spoiler Autolog :

Logging by BUG Mod 2.30 [Build 742] (BtS 3.13)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 215/750 (625 AD) [21-Jun-2008 07:52:46]

After End Turn:
Antium grows to size 9
A Village was built near Cumae
Neapolis finishes: Lighthouse
A Village was built near Neapolis
A Hamlet was built near Hadrumetum
Carthage finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:

Turn 216/750 (640 AD) [21-Jun-2008 07:57:36]
Carthage begins: Forge (9 turns)
Antium begins: Forge (12 turns)

After End Turn:
Cumae finishes: Praetorian

Other Player Actions:

Turn 217/750 (655 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:11:37]
Cumae begins: Praetorian (5 turns)

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Carthage
Rome finishes: Forum
Aristotle (Great Scientist) born in Rome
Carthage finishes: Forge

Other Player Actions:

Turn 218/750 (670 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:24:28]
Rome begins: Forge (6 turns)
Carthage begins: Barracks (7 turns)
Carthage begins: Forge (10 turns)

After End Turn:
Hadrumetum grows to size 7

Other Player Actions:

Turn 219/750 (685 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:36:37]
A Farm was built near Carthage

After End Turn:
Cumae grows to size 6
Carthage grows to size 8

Other Player Actions:

Turn 220/750 (700 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:40:54]

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Antium
Antium grows to size 10
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
Ravenna finishes: Granary

Other Player Actions:

Turn 221/750 (715 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:46:18]
Cumae begins: Praetorian (4 turns)
Ravenna begins: Library (20 turns)
Antium begins: Forge (12 turns)

After End Turn:
Tech learned: Machinery
A Hamlet was built near Antium
Ravenna grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:

Turn 222/750 (730 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:50:39]
Research begun: Compass (5 Turns)
Research begun: Optics (5 Turns)
Research begun: Compass (5 Turns)
A Cottage was built near Hadrumetum
A Mine was built near Cumae
A Cottage was built near Hadrumetum

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Antium
Rome finishes: Forge
Antium finishes: Forge
Hadrumetum grows to size 8
Carthage finishes: Forge

Other Player Actions:

Turn 223/750 (745 AD) [21-Jun-2008 08:54:02]
Rome begins: Barracks (4 turns)
Carthage begins: Barracks (7 turns)
Antium begins: The Colossus (14 turns)

After End Turn:
Rome grows to size 10
Neapolis finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:

Turn 224/750 (760 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:01:39]
Tech learned: Mathematics
Neapolis begins: Forge (12 turns)

After End Turn:
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
A Hamlet was built near Hadrumetum
Carthage grows to size 9

Other Player Actions:

Turn 225/750 (775 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:05:46]
Cumae begins: Praetorian (4 turns)

After End Turn:
Antium grows to size 9
Neapolis grows to size 5
Carthage finishes: Barracks

Other Player Actions:

Turn 226/750 (790 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:08:23]
Carthage begins: Crossbowman (9 turns)

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Antium
Tech learned: Compass
Rome finishes: Barracks
Antium finishes: The Colossus
Cumae grows to size 7
Hadrumetum grows to size 9

Other Player Actions:

Turn 227/750 (805 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:10:40]
Research begun: Optics (8 Turns)
Rome begins: Crossbowman (5 turns)

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Hadrumetum
Antium grows to size 7
Antium finishes: Courthouse
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
A Village was built near Cumae
Hadrumetum finishes: Forum

Other Player Actions:

Turn 228/750 (820 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:15:48]
Cumae begins: Forge (8 turns)
Hadrumetum begins: Barracks (38 turns)

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Owner(Rome) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 229/750 (835 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:18:29]

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Cumae
Hadrumetum grows to size 6

Other Player Actions:

Turn 230/750 (850 AD) [21-Jun-2008 09:26:44]
Rome begins: Lighthouse (5 turns)
A Windmill was built near Ravenna
Research begun: Optics (5 Turns)

The save is below:
 

Attachments

Something I just spotted -- we can switch from working the plains mine south of Rome and assign another scientist instead without delaying the Crossbowman. It adds 6 beakers and knocks 5 turns off the next great scientist.
 
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