New Version - 3.3.1 (March 26, 2023)

[Chorda]

Is that correct that against ranged attack the ranged strength applies?

Spoiler :

I know there had been changes. Just want to clarify.

 

[azum4roll]

Is that correct that against ranged attack the ranged strength applies?

Spoiler :

View attachment 658422

I know there had been changes. Just want to clarify.

It has always been the case. Siege is supposed to be resistant to ranged attacks.

 

[saamohod]

It has always been the case. Siege is supposed to be resistant to ranged attacks.

Only siege? Aren't non-siege ranged units also using their ranged strength for defense against range?

 

[Anarcomu]

Only siege? Aren't non-siege ranged units also using their ranged strength for defense against range?

It works for all ranged unit, but siege starts with the cover I promotion, which gives a +25% range defense.

 

[Stalker0]

to make it easier to understand as there are many types of units. If a unit possesses an RCS value (Range Combat Strength), it will use that value as defense against any other unit attacking with RCS.

 

[Markal]

The new version is great so far, thank you for the improvements. Two points I noticed though:
1- the AI seems to be very friendly. I play on emperor and I managed to be friend with most of them for most of the game so far (industrial era), even though I waged several war and conquered several cities (to make us of Hero Worship).
2- a side effect of the new rule regarding ships and garrison strenght is that you can't use only a strong navy to take a city. I took a city with bastion with a high level corvette, the new defense value was 5 so a single musketman (no melee) was able to kill the corvette in one shot before I could move again. I don't say you should be able to keep a city easily with only boats, and in that case I just wanted to take the city for harassment and Hero Worship and wasn't intending on defending it. It makes projecting power far from your base much harder with a navy.

 

[saamohod]

the AI seems to be very friendly.

Doesn't seem to be the case with me. Warlike civs tend to exhibit nasty behaviour and declare wars, especially where they see your vulnerabilities. If you play around peaceful civs, keep low profile, field sizeable army and behave yourself, other civs tend to be friendly because you give them no reason to attack.

a side effect of the new rule regarding ships and garrison strenght is that you can't use only a strong navy to take a city.

I wish we could make melee ships exit the city that has been captured by it. Otherwise the ship is often lost to counterattack by virtually any unit the next turn.

 

[Stalker0]

I wish we could make melee ships exit the city that has been captured by it. Otherwise the ship is often lost to counterattack by virtually any unit the next turn.

I consider this a feature.

1) you should bring a garrison along with your navy when taking a city.

2) if you can’t hold a city from the counterattack, you shouldn’t take the city, as you haven’t secured it enough

 

[Enginseer]

I consider this a feature.

1) you should bring a garrison along with your navy when taking a city.

2) if you can’t hold a city from the counterattack, you shouldn’t take the city, as you haven’t secured it enough

But if a land unit walks in, it shouldn't just insta-kill the ship. The ship can simply float away especially when it no longer boosts combat strength.

 

[Markal]

I consider this a feature.

1) you should bring a garrison along with your navy when taking a city.

2) if you can’t hold a city from the counterattack, you shouldn’t take the city, as you haven’t secured it enough

I agree with you when it comes to melee. Of course if an enemy army can march into the captured city right away, your ship is doomed and it's only fair.

In that case however I made sure there could be no melee counterattack and it felt unfair that a single musketman can snipe a level 8 corvette with a single shot.

Bringing a tercio from the other side of the world just to keep the city one turn is tedious gameplay wise (for a city I just wanted to abandon anyway). The turn before I had liberated a city, so my ship got insta kicked out and it was safe.

A solution could be (and it's not really satisfying) that ships don't soak up damages anymore when garrison in a city.

Otherwise for ships I'd see only the blitz promotion as essential for city attacking if you attack on the first one and retreat on the second one (not even sure taking a city doesn't force your unit to rest though). Problem, blitz is not on the side of city taking promotions (dreadnought I think).

Overall it is maybe just that I need to change my years long habit of how I play with a navy, but I am not sure it makes the game that much more realistic nor fun.

Ps: or the solution proposed by saamohood is good too (if feasible).

 

[Stalker0]

A solution could be (and it's not really satisfying) that ships don't soak up damages anymore when garrison in a city.

This would complete the effect that a ship is in no ways a garrison, and would solve your specific problem. Works for me.

 

[looorg]

Why shouldn't a ship be able to fortify or defend a city? Sounds weird. The ship isn't just the ship. It's all the crew. Just like any other unit is not just that unit. If a Melee ship can capture a city it should also be able to defend or garrison the city in question. The somewhat weird thing I guess is if you want ranged ships to shoot inside a city or not like any ranged unit. I think they should be able to but I might be in the minority on that one.

But if a land unit walks in, it shouldn't just insta-kill the ship. The ship can simply float away especially when it no longer boosts combat strength.

I seem to recall that that sort of happens now sometimes, I think it's when you use a melee ship to take a city that you then chose to liberate your ship is sort of stealth in the city until the next turn when it gets kicked out. Unless you have Blitz (or whatever it's called that lets you attack and move twice etc). This happens even if they re-capture or take the city back on the turn or connected turn before your next turn.

 

[nekokon]

I'd prefer making melee ship unable to capture cities to solve all the above issue and also thematically correct. If you want to capture a location, a landing force is always needed, not just navy.

 

[Chorda]

I'd prefer making melee ship unable to capture cities to solve all the above issue and also thematically correct. If you want to capture a location, a landing force is always needed, not just navy.

Would be cool tho. Meaning rebalance of dozen of civs to stay viable.

 

[azum4roll]

You can't make something that's able to melee attack a city but not capture it.

 

[Markal]

I'd prefer making melee ship unable to capture cities to solve all the above issue and also thematically correct. If you want to capture a location, a landing force is always needed, not just navy.

Personally I wouldn't like it. Naval gameplay is already much more limited than land one so if you take one of its perks away it makes no sense to me. As far as historical accuracy can go in a game like civ, I think the actual situation (even before the garrison change) is fine. If you are overwhelmingly dominant on seas you can take a port but if you have no land troops to support your push and the ennemy has, you have no realistic way of holding it for more than a turn or a few turn. A port city with only one hex accessible by sea is much easier to defend from sea attack, an island exposed on every side is not, it's realistic enough for me.

 

[BornDownUnder]

The only reason as to why naval units and therefore gameplay take a back seat to importance in the role of warfare is due to players opting for larger land mass values in the map generation.

Maintaining control of the seas is just as important a strategy as maintaining control of the skies in warfare.

 

[zeofig]

Is it intended I can't liberate a CS that Rome has tribute annexed? No options pop up when capturing, I just automatically annex it

 

[andersw]

The new version is great so far, thank you for the improvements. Two points I noticed though:
1- the AI seems to be very friendly. I play on emperor and I managed to be friend with most of them for most of the game so far (industrial era), even though I waged several war and conquered several cities (to make us of Hero Worship).
2- a side effect of the new rule regarding ships and garrison strenght is that you can't use only a strong navy to take a city. I took a city with bastion with a high level corvette, the new defense value was 5 so a single musketman (no melee) was able to kill the corvette in one shot before I could move again. I don't say you should be able to keep a city easily with only boats, and in that case I just wanted to take the city for harassment and Hero Worship and wasn't intending on defending it. It makes projecting power far from your base much harder with a navy.

Also Emperor, I get aggression and wars, mostly between AIs.
I see the AI dont expand much (normal barbs), Pangea low sea so there is supposed to be plenty of space but I out expand the AI like 2x.

 

[Denn]

played a few games with Rome and i think it is too OP.

CP also abuses his annex lol