No happy people

[babybluepants]

At least we're not completely isolated, though I hate Saladin... I swear Theocracy is the stupidest fav civic. If we adopt it, we're about to go kill him...

Not so sure I wanna chop with this variant... Also, we can do settlers in 5t at size 4 (pig/2cows/mine). I'm not sure the whip is needed, either. We have lots of hammers, but pretty average food.

Don't know what I'd tech after Mining... Maybe we see some horses by then, but that's doubtful...

 

[shyuhe]

I would prefer to not chop with our variant unless it's for the hanging gardens or pyramids. Justinian's starting techs suck so going agri--AH--mining--BW may be dangerous... We'll have to see whether the map allows for good fog busting.

Wonder failure on the GW with stone is not bad since it's far more effective than anything else we can do at this stage.

 

[Silu]

Oh right... I already managed to forget about the variant WRT chopping

So... What I'm reading here, Mining still seems the immediate tech to go for cap impros, followed by tech X, possibly Masonry for stone hookage trickstery? Going Hunting->Archery in the dark for barbs seems pretty boneheaded to me at this point.

 

[shyuhe]

We're definitely going to run into barbs from the west unless we fog/spawn bust. One on the sheep hill and one in the very SW forest should minimize that direction, but that's going to take lots of warriors.

I'd like to grow to size 4 before starting any settlers as we have good tiles - pig, 2 cows, and riverside grass hill (imperialistic!). I would keep the forests for now as there's no reason to chop them.

Tech wise, I think we should try mining -- BW while building warriors to stop barbs. We can clear the west pretty easily and we shouldn't get many from the south anyways because of the coast. With about 4 warriors, we should be able to handle the barbs ok (or we may even get copper!).

 

[phungus420]

lurker's comment: Jesus guys, this varient on Immortal is going to be harder then a straight Diety game. Good luck, you're going to need it. I highly advise you do some long term strategic planning early, I don't think you'll be able to pull this one off just from winging it. Another thing to remember is that you don't necessarily need to trade a resource away, you should be able to gift away most health/happy that you end up with, at least by mid game.

 

[Silu]

We're definitely going to run into barbs from the west unless we fog/spawn bust. One on the sheep hill and one in the very SW forest should minimize that direction, but that's going to take lots of warriors.

I'd like to grow to size 4 before starting any settlers as we have good tiles - pig, 2 cows, and riverside grass hill (imperialistic!). I would keep the forests for now as there's no reason to chop them.

Tech wise, I think we should try mining -- BW while building warriors to stop barbs. We can clear the west pretty easily and we shouldn't get many from the south anyways because of the coast. With about 4 warriors, we should be able to handle the barbs ok (or we may even get copper!).

Yeah, size4 or even 5 is also viable unless we're right on Sally's doorstep and he's threatening our precious Stone. So BW before Masonry after all? Those are the only two contenders I see. Latter provides Copper-vision and the former an earlier shot at Stone-GW (only kind of GW we'd build, no chopping and all).

lurker's comment: Jesus guys, this varient on Immortal is going to be harder then a straight Diety game. Good luck, you're going to need it. I highly advise you do some long term strategic planning early, I don't think you'll be able to pull this one off just from winging it. Another thing to remember is that you don't necessarily need to trade a resource away, you should be able to gift away most health/happy that you end up with, at least by mid game.

Oh, I get it - it's a diety game because we won't be eating juicy, healthy pork and beef As for "just win" deity, well, without variant it's not that hard in a SG like this. At least our leader rocks for this (well, disregarding the start techs).

You still can't gift rivals resources they already have, so that doesn't really help that much. Before Corpos enter the picture of course, but that's not until waaay later. Let's hope for a lot of vassal spawning so we can dump crap to them

Another thing that popped in mind. What if we have a resource trade, which is canceled by the AI, and there's no1 else to immediately gift the resource to? I guess just pillage the improvement ASAP

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Mining for me too (maybe archery after depending of findings -we can't discuss BW now, there are good chances this path is too risky-). We should explore near the stone asap

As the real priority is the mids, I wouldn't wait too much before first settler (ie no SH, no GW, not growing to size 5)... we can't miss stone (and we aren't going to chop it) and for now Sally isn't located. Wouldn't gamble with that

Ras

Ps: I would chop every riverside tiles & non-overlap tiles. (nobody commented my question about that on post 74) overlapped forest gives one more hammer per city than farms... evey other kind are worse than farms (before biology). So do we want to keep them only to spam forest preserves? It seems better to me to have quality tiles from the start, even if it means less preserves later... snowball effect.
Ps2: any other idea except ICS strategy?

ps3:

With about 4 warriors, we should be able to handle the barbs ok (or we may even get copper!).

I thought Obselete hacked your account for a moment How do you protect improvements with 4 warriors? Maybe it's one of those "iron only" starts... in which case going BW is a mistake in terms of defense and preparation of the mids (as u still have to do archery before masonry). Maybe I am just a whimp

 

[Silu]

Okay, the "consensus" seems to be Masonry OR Hunting OR BW after Mining... I guess the consensus is we'd rather decide that when Mining is done... I'll see if I have time to play until that today (house getting dogpiled by parents & in-laws), failing that, tomorrow

I'd rather decide chopping on a case-by-case basis... after all the farm<->forest comparison doesn't really apply if there are plenty of other tiles to farm besides the riverside forest tile. Later, lumber mills are a good alternative as well and those come before preserves... though for once the happy from preserves might actually make them worthwhile.

I guess GT and NP might be a bit more important than usual as well

 

[bestsss]

>>house getting dogpiled by parents & in-laws
I thought today was a mourning day in Finland.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I agree, best is prolly to decide on a case-by-case basis... good luck with parents and in-laws

 

[Silu]

>>house getting dogpiled by parents & in-laws
I thought today was a mourning day in Finland.

What would I be mourning? Lost Civvin' time? If you are referring to hockey, the main goal was accomplished: to get farther than Sweden Better to lose in the semis than in the finals anyway... I don't think anyone by now has illusions that Finland would actually win anything in hockey...

 

[Rusten]

I don't think anyone by now has illusions that Finland would actually win anything in hockey...

Or any other olympic sport

 

[babybluepants]

Okay, the "consensus" seems to be Masonry OR Hunting OR BW after Mining...

Exactly.

I'd rather decide chopping on a case-by-case basis...

Sounds right. If we really end up using a tight city grid, the overlap forests will be huge.

If you are referring to hockey, the main goal was accomplished: to get farther than Sweden Better to lose in the semis than in the finals anyway...

Way to set you sights high. We still have one game to go to get further than our big bad neighbor.

 

[shyuhe]

What would I be mourning? Lost Civvin' time? If you are referring to hockey, the main goal was accomplished: to get farther than Sweden Better to lose in the semis than in the finals anyway... I don't think anyone by now has illusions that Finland would actually win anything in hockey...

You're just making excuses If you guys had won the semi game, you'd be guaranteed at least silver!

Going through mining sounds ok - I'd like to send a second scouting warrior east. I would still like to get BW but our starting techs suck so hard...

@Ras - With 4 warriors (2 west, 1 south, one east), that should limit the direction that barbs can spawn from. If we're going to grow to size 4 (probably best size for whipping), then we'll crank out probably another one or two warriors before we switch over to a settler.

I think I mentioned it before, but assuming a city is unhealthy, two farms produce 4 food only whereas two grass forest produce 3 food and 2 hammers. It'll depend on the other tiles available but I don't think chopping and farming will get us very far.

 

[babybluepants]

I think I mentioned it before, but assuming a city is unhealthy, two farms produce 4 food only whereas two grass forest produce 3 food and 2 hammers. It'll depend on the other tiles available but I don't think chopping and farming will get us very far.

Farming also nets commerce and the immediate 40-60h from chops. However, if the forest tiles are in overlap, it's potentially another -1f to a different city... I prefer to not chop as a rule here, but we can evaluate some cases as they come up - rushing a wonder, for instance.

 

[Silu]

Played 7 turns so far, until Mining. Stopped for tech choice input.

First turn, our warrior runs into a Bear. Third turn, it spots 2 Lions. Fourth turn, our 2nd warrior runs into a third Lion. I took a risk and moved it into a spotting position on the turn we got Mining to see if there's a pointy-bearded chinstroker nearby. Answer is no:



Barb spawns really aren't slacking off... Saw 5 during these 7 turns. This leads me to think we're indeed in semi-isolation. Since the Arabs apparently aren't breathing down our necks, I'm inclined to go Masonry here for a shot at the GW (with Stone), apparently it would come in handy. BW feels like a gamble since if we don't have immediate Copper (unlikely in capital it feels, though possible) it's a bit wasted with our reluctance to chop and whip.

So. Masonry, BW or Hunting? Or maybe HBR?! Fishing?!?

 

[Mutineer]

Yee, Mu suggestion will be take a plunge and research masonry. Settle on stone, use this city to produce warriors, pre-connect on stone city with capital so the moment we settle we can build GW.

GW will really simplify thinks and Great spy could help as in semi-isolation a lot, as AI do not trade mach in that condition.

 

[Silu]

Settling on the Stone might actually be useful here, since we lucked an usable Wheat in the east there. Agreeing with the above plan. Other ideas?

 

[shyuhe]

I'm fine with masonry and putting a settler on the stone - we should try to road it to the capital before settling so that we can build the GW in our capital (more hammers). Not sure when that means we have to time the settler build and worker roading though. We can chop the forested grass hill to help speed the GW (odd number of forests right now).

 

[Mutineer]

That is what I try to say, order settler now, move one warrior back to capital (I think barbarian warrior is not after us, otherwise produce 1 more warrior just in case).
road to new city will cost 6 workers turn. So we will have time to improve one more tie I think before starting roading. second city producing warriors probably would be enough for defense until GW is build.

Road (connection) to second city provide instant 2 commerce, compensating for increase in maintenance. and GW in capital is mach faster.