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[BTS] Noble Shadow game - Huyana Capac

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Shikhar Agrawal, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    You can't share gold-cow city with bananas. There is no permissible spot for the city to settle that works them all. 2S1E cow is the only spot that reaches both cow and bananas, but it's too close to Machu Picchu. I'd just drop that one 1S cow or 1SW of cow (probably 1SW of cow to get two extra forests to chop).

    You've picked out the right spot for cow-marble-copper city.

    That far west region with cow, ivory, and floodplains is suddenly looking very attractive. My initial inclination would be get a city 1S of the cow, but scout a bit further west in case something changes the thinking there. 1S2E of the cow is a decent plainshill city spot, not quite as good as 1S of cow but it leaves open the possibility of an additional cities even further west that would be too close to a city 1S of cow (something like a city 2S1W or 2W1S of cow if there's reason to want to settle there).

    The barb bananas + double gems city down south is a nice one, albeit worker-intensive. As your cities grow a little more productive you can squeeze out a spare worker or two and Iron Working becomes a pretty cheap tech, which moves it up in priority as well.

    Longer-term there's a couple marginal city spots to the northeast which are primarily for their luxury resources. 1N of deer at deer-crab-double fur city; camp the deer, double chop + whip a library, whip a work boat, grow to size-4, work deer + crab + 2x scientist specialists. With Representation that city is contributing 12 beakers, 4 commerce, 6 Great Scientist GPP, and a single hammer (it probably just builds wealth for the rest of the game after finishing the work boat). And 1W of the corn, sandwiched between the silver. Daisy chain farms with Civil Service to irrigate that corn (1N of cow, 1S of silver, city tile, corn), chop + whip a library, and you've got a silver + corn + 2x scientist specialist city that does basically the same thing. Neither of these are powerhouse cities, but they cover their own cost and give your whole empire two luxury resources. If you're feeling peacefully inclined grab them after the earlier city spots are gone; if you're feeling more aggressive maybe delay these cities until after you've conquered a neighbor or two. Both of them can skip getting a Terrace; they need a library anyways, the library will provide the culture they need for border pops, and you aren't going to be whipping them much or growing them to a big size. Whipping to get a Terrace would just slow down getting them to where they need to be.

    You're getting a little stretched for worker actions. Ideally you'd have a cottage 2E or 1E2N of Machu Picchu (as Pyramids finishes you'll want cottages on both those tiles to grow for eventually handing off to Cuzco), one more road tile connecting Ollantaytambo to your trade network (+2 commerce a turn, and lets it potentially throw a handful of hammers into a wonder before canceling the build and making it somewhere else for stone/marble + industrious failgold), Tiwanaku is about to be able to grow up to size-6 pretty rapidly which will surge how many floodplains cottages it can handle. Plus all the normal demands of improving brand new cities with your new settlers. It's not a major problem yet, just an issue looming on the horizon - your 4 workers aren't going to be enough very soon.
     
  2. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Yeah and also bananas aren't good to begin with , provide just 4 yield and takes a lot of turns for plantation

    Yeah will eventually settle there after 5-10 turns until will scout and fog bust the area

    Yes , I am feeling a bit shortage of workers and soon it will become more severe , building that barracks is proving costly now.
     
  3. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    The bananas will be 5F eventually. 2F now, clearing the jungle will give the tile +1F, and building the plantation another +2F. It's a strong tile once you've improved it; the downside is just that jungle bananas need a bunch of prerequisite tech and 10 worker turns. Once you've got a few chariots you might poke your head into that area and take a look at the barb city. If it's at least size-2 (so you can capture, not just raze, it) and doesn't have spears defending it, go ahead and conquer it with your chariots.
     
  4. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Yeah will go there with around 4 chariots and my warrior is nearby to scout it first
     
  5. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    all cities are connected except western one , chariot in cap and machu pichu next turn , alpha in 3 turns , ethopia is a huge help , he connected my east city and its resources , any idea why he is doing , should i convert to confisuim also what should i build in cities
    Spoiler :
    Untitled12-1.png Untitled12-2.png Untitled12-3.png
     

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  6. Zavior

    Zavior Trying to (b)eat deity

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    Just a general note, you can turn on detailed city info by going into to options -> graphics and ticking detailed city info. This will display turns left to growth/build finishing in the city bar which can save some time as you don't need to open the city view itself to see how long it takes for a build to finish.
     
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  7. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Thanks that is a vey useful tip
     
  8. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    • Looking good overall. You are getting a handle on the expand vs build mentality, and that is good. You should get that cow/gold spot too. That corn spot in the west is a powerhouse, but it is a little far at the moment.
    • This level of play will dominate on Noble. Worker management and fog busting will catch up to you by Monarch or Emperor. Also note you're playing a leader that is generally considered the very best in the game, so it's a little like playing on warlord.
    • Good job having a worker out there to start with though to improve the corn right away. I'd go corn -> cow -> FP's. Don't have that worker leave the city radius. Just keep improving that city. Try to cut down on moving your workers around between cities - it's more expensive than you might realize.
    • Did you finish the pyramids? Did you switch to representation? If so, you should get those cottages going in Cuzco, and GROW. Even consider letting Machu Picchu work the gold if it can, and just go max food. [This is why you'd want those cottages up already, because Cuzco only has 4 tiles improved [on turn 85]. So, it needs improved tiles to grow into. This will let you utilize Bureaucracy.].

    Spoiler Workers :

    Something to think about:

    Look at this image.

    upload_2020-10-20_9-3-0.png

    I highlighted the number of worker-turns it takes to connect Cuzco to Tiwanaku.

    Plus you'd connect the corn instead of the cow - which is worth more health anyway, thanks to the terrace.

    Roads are like a worker-turn vampire. They seem cheap, but they're not really.

    The road you built took 12 worker-turns. The green-field road would have been 8. And then you could have had an extra cottage in the capital south of the gold. Get those cottages going in the capital!

     

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  9. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    [But don't go max food on unimproved files].

    • Other tile improvements to consider - the bronze/marble/cow city can probably farm around that lake, and make for a nice city that you can whip units from to mess with Zara.
    • Zara is probably building a road up that way because he wants to settle the Corn spot or settle on the coast up there.
    • You don't really need to switch into Confucianism here. It's nice to do all that in a golden age where you don't suffer anarchy. So, maybe wait until you have philosophy, and then use a great person that isn't a scientist to start a golden age, and switch into Caste System, Pacificism, and into a religion that you have spread into all of your main cities. When you do that - you'll see that you can produce great people incredibly fast, and can snow-ball that into some really interesting options.
     
  10. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Will get that too , I took that spot earlier cuz I was afraid someone else will take that good spot

    Yeah I set the leaders too random , will choose someone like tokugawa next time instead of going random

    Yes will won't , anyways there is a lot to be done before he could be free. Yes I sorta realized that

    Yes I switched to it immediately , a worker is already building a cottage soon another will come.

    Thanks , I don't think I would have thought about that
     
  11. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    Cool - if you switched to representation, if you have any cities that have libraries, maybe double check them, and have them work a scientist rather than an unimproved tile.

    The +6 beakers is often worth it compared to a random forest tile.
     
  12. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    I didn't build lib anywhere though , should I build them
     
  13. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    I thought you built a library in the capital? that's good for now. If you go into Caste System, no need to build libraries. But you may want to whip a bit before that - didn't get a good look at the new cities.

    Building Pyramids and Representation is mostly about running specialists, though the extra happy in your cities is nice too. So if you're not running any specialists at all, you're missing out on the point of building pyramids.

    One thing I miss about you not playing with a BUG mod, is that we can't see your Great People generation bar on the main interface. I'm spoiled.

    [I haven't opened your save at all. All my advice comes from the pictures you post].
     
  14. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Sorry except capital , my capital is already running 2 scientists, lymond suggested me but forgot about that will install tomorrow
     
  15. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    No worries - I figured that's what you meant. You're good then if you're running 2 in the capital.

    Once you switch to Caste, it's nice to run merchants in some cities. Those get you +3 gold and +3 science. It helps you keep your slider up so your capital can convert commerce into beakers efficiently.

    .......maybe post your tech tree next update, so we can think about next tech, and once you get alpha, post what tech trades are available. Looking forward to seeing what's out there.

    If you can continue to play this well without forum advice in your games, you're ready for Monarch with an average leader. [Or Toku if you want a tougher challenge].
     
  16. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Ok will do that
     
  17. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    It's tough to know when exactly to time switching from slavery to caste system. And given your strong science output and young undeveloped cities, I would venture to guess it's still Slavery time.
     
  18. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Well I would just post , when I do get caste system and will do as you recommend
     
  19. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Got alphabet , had to take the city , barbarian was on very low health and someone else could have taken it , will whip a lib in tiwanku next turn , building 2 more workers and fogbusting with a chariot and warrior in the east. I have also added tech tree and trade window down below
     

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  20. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    Overall:
    Looking decent. Some small things to mention, and one big one.

    Settling the gems now is a mistake.
    • Keep playing it, but note to yourself how painful it is to get that city going in that situation, so you learn why it's not a good choice. It's going to soak up a LOT of worker turns to get that city going.
    • [Even if an AI would grab it, it would be very easy for you to capture it]
    • The cow/gold should be settled before the gems spot. It's productive with much less worker activity, and will help you connect the two halves of your empire.
      • Also - you can chop jungles outside of your cultural borders, so you can clear out the jungle ahead of time, especially on that banana and one of the gems.
      • At least you can trade for iron working now - to chop the jungles.

    Other cities:
    • Glad to see those cottages going up near the capital.
    • You are working a 2 hammer unimproved plains hill in Tiwanaku. That is a crime. That is a terrible tile, even if you want to build a library. The worker that Cuzco is building should go to Tiwanaku, and focus solely on improving the flood plains in that city.
    • Ollan - that city looks good. Just keep cycling it from 4 -> 2 population. After the next chariot, look to build stronger units there. Chariots are not good to whip, because they are only 30 hammers.
    • Cori - looking good. Whip the terrace as soon as you can, so you can connect the bronze. Worker up there should farm all those green tiles. It'll have nice food, and ok hammers thanks to the marble and bronze and cow.
    • Humanga - Did that city just finish a terrace? If so, great! If not, stop building the Quecha, and work on the Terrace. Since you have a chariot there, the Q can wait. After the pasture is done, probably cottage the flood plains. Don't have that worker leave the city radius until then. That city is going to grow fast. Let it get up to size 4 now.
    Next Cities:
    • Settle that cow / gold. I'd go 1 SW of the cow at this point. If you road 1E of cow, the cow, and then 2 W of cow, and 3 W of cow, you'll connect the two halves of your growing empire with 9 worker turns. Machu Piccu's worker can do that. That city probably doesn't need a terrace any time soon, but you can slow-build it.
    • After that, there aren't more must-settle spots. So I think that means it's time for conquest.

    Techs:

    • Civil Service -> You have a nice beuro cap here. It's expensive, but very powerful. Spreading irrigation is situational, but nice. If you can tech this before you build oracle, you can oracle education, which is silly-good.
    • Hunting -> No need, unless you want to go for horse archers.
    • Mediation -> Needed for philosophy.
    • Priesthood -> Cheap and decent for Oracle, with the marble. Probably too good to pass up here, but in most games it's not a great move.
    • Poly -> No need.
    • Construction -> Catapults + bronze will let you conquer anyone for a good long while. You have a lot of land too, so chances are you'll have iron nearby.
    • Metal Casting -> Cheap forges are great with industrial leaders. They make whips stronger. They lead towards Machinery, and Maces are a very strong unit.
    • Aesthetics -> Not bad. It's good trade bait, but these rivals don't have much to give you in return, so meh. Great Library is a decent wonder when you have marble and industrial.
    • Horse Back -> Horse Archers are great for conquest. Still viable, and you really should at some point go back 30 turns and try it out sometime. It's very strong.
    • Iron Working -> Decent tech. Trade for it.
    Given the current tech situation, and that nobody has priesthood yet, I'd probably tech Mediation, then Priesthood, start the oracle somewhere, then tech civil service, and finish the oracle once civil service is in. This wouldn't work on higher difficulty levels, but sometimes you just gotta take advantage of what they give you.


    Trades:
    • Trade for Iron working. See what you can get. Consider selling off writing to everyone for the cash. Note how much more tech you have than them. They'll never catch up, so giving away a few techs only helps you tech even faster.
    • Don't bother with hunting or fishing. You can maybe get those in a forced peace deal later, or grab them quick later if you need it.
     
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