Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation
- Thread starter Murky
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You come off as willfully blind and as if you never bothered to read the article in full.
It makes several quite damning points, yet I haven't really seen any of them being addressed in the thread.
Instead it is just "bhah, German Schadenfreude!" and "nah, China will slow down" and "nah, we still have the biggest defense budget".
Sure, the US is not going to become a Third World nation anytime soon, but this is not what is claimed either...
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Because they're generally specious points. Nothing to address.
Ironically it's the people saying "nah, China will slow down" that you should be paying the most attention to, as they have their finger on the pulse of what is essential here.
That dismissive attitude is exactly what I am talking about.
I mean, you might be right. But how would we know without even a cursory discussion?
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Yes. I'm curious too.
Is there some kind of structural systemic reason for China's "inevitable stall"? Or is it something like China's dependence on coal-fired power, which might put some kind of ceiling on further development simply by choking the populace?
I can see China's growth has slowed down to ~8%(?) just recently. But I thought that was due to loss of markets in Europe and the US. Simply because people aren't buying so much.
Is there some kind of structural systemic reason for China's "inevitable stall"? Or is it something like China's dependence on coal-fired power, which might put some kind of ceiling on further development simply by choking the populace?
I can see China's growth has slowed down to ~8%(?) just recently. But I thought that was due to loss of markets in Europe and the US. Simply because people aren't buying so much.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Yeekim said:
Well, for example: one of the article's biggest talking points is America's partisan atmosphere. We are supposed to believe that the division between the Reps and Dems is going to tear the US asunder. But it doesn't take a political science degree to realize that this is quite a claim, especially when considered with respect to other countries that are supposedly poised to replace us. All that comes to mind is China and they aren't a proper candidate.
Regarding USA#1: I agree with other non-Americans that it is sometimes confusing. It's often used in such an over the top way in very inappropriate situations that I never really can tell if it's genuine, ironic or a self-aware combination of both.
I don't have a problem with people that are proud of the country they live in. And there are obviously a lot of things about the US where it is unarguably #1, so it's not as if everyone's deluding themselves into something here.
What bothers me is more that if there's a discussion about legitimate problems and the reaction is just "Doesn't matter USA#1" as if you're trying to ignore the problem and not acknowledge it's there. And I don't say that because I just love to see Americans admitting to problems, but because I think it's better for everyone to address problems instead of covering them up with other areas where you're doing great. That's true greatness imo.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton: "There's nothing that's wrong with America which cannot be solved by something that's great about America."
I don't have a problem with people that are proud of the country they live in. And there are obviously a lot of things about the US where it is unarguably #1, so it's not as if everyone's deluding themselves into something here.
What bothers me is more that if there's a discussion about legitimate problems and the reaction is just "Doesn't matter USA#1" as if you're trying to ignore the problem and not acknowledge it's there. And I don't say that because I just love to see Americans admitting to problems, but because I think it's better for everyone to address problems instead of covering them up with other areas where you're doing great. That's true greatness imo.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton: "There's nothing that's wrong with America which cannot be solved by something that's great about America."
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Yes, fine, but there is a vast gully of difference between admitting "OK the USA has some problems" and asserting that "the USA is doomed to second-bestness." Second-best to whom is never adequately addressed.
Borachio
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I'm very confused now.
If we assume that all peoples and nations are equally resourceful (and there's no reason to think otherwise) then, all other things being equal, population size must surely win out, in the long run. Depending on what you mean by "long run".
So what might a person conclude?
China or India? China + India?
The only real resource is the human resource?
If we assume that all peoples and nations are equally resourceful (and there's no reason to think otherwise) then, all other things being equal, population size must surely win out, in the long run. Depending on what you mean by "long run".
So what might a person conclude?
China or India? China + India?
The only real resource is the human resource?
See below. What is US actually "best" in?
And what would these be? Besides defense spending...and aforementioned ratio of prisoners per capita?
Being unrivaled military powerhouse is not to be scoffed at, of course... but what exactly has the US got to show for it lately?
I mean, North Korea has larger military that South Korea, but where would you rather live?
Oh, I never really wanted to defend Spiegel's doom and gloom article. It addresses some real problems, but vastly overestimates their consequences.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Why does it have to be "best" at anything? We're talking about geopolitical power and relevance here.
e: OK, I see the contradiction. "Second-bestness" was poorly phrased. I just can't think of any other way to communicate that the US has all the allies and the guns and will continue to have all the allies and guns for the foreseeable future.
Universities? The Olympics?
Yeah, as I said, you still have the biggest defense budget. That is a fact nobody contests. The question is, what is it actually good for?
kochman
Deity
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Way more than you seem to realize...
Military
Universities
Space exploration/tech (we're winning the space race)
A zillion other technologies
Entertainment media (from music to movies)
GDP
Finance/Investment
Off the top of my head
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Credit where credit's due.
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