NSA spying - When is the line crossed?

[bhsup]

Are you saying the military court charged manning with being a traitor? That was the actual charge? "You are accused of being a traitor." The actual word traitor was used? Cuz I just did CTRL-F on this page and traitor doesn't appear on it. I'm not being a pedantic jerk here. I am specifically using traitor instead of accusing snowden of committing treason because of the specifics of what treason is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_charges_in_United_States_v._Manning

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'm saying that Manning was acquitted of the treason charges:

COL. DENISE LIND, the U.S. Army judge who heard the charges against Pfc. Bradley Manning for the leak of tens of thousands of secret documents to WikiLeaks, offered a ruling that will echo long after the sentencing of the 25-year-old private. She acquitted Pfc. Manning of a charge that leaking the secrets was “aiding the enemy,” or the highest form of treason, while convicting him of lesser charges that may still bring a long prison term.

Col. Lind did not explain her decision, which goes to the heart of a debate that has been raging with multiple prosecutions underway of leakers and disclosures by Pfc. Manning and Edward Snowden of classified materials. In effect, Col. Lind declared that leaking is not necessarily tantamount to treason. Certainly, traitors have betrayed the country before and will do so again, but it is an important distinction that not every leak of a government secret rises to the level of treason, and leaks can often play a vital role in shaping public opinion.

 

[bhsup]

Yes, see, NOW you are saying treason and earlier you were saying traitor. I am glad we're in agreement that the two are not synonymous. Me saying someone is a traitor does not mean I am accusing them of treason.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Only, again, I'm not stating anything of the sort. Bradley / Chelsea Manning is clearly no traitor because he/she was acquitted of treason charges.

How could you possibly still not understand my own opinion in the matter after I stated "no authoritative account of Bradley/Chelsea Manning will now claim he/she was a traitor"?

 

[Farm Boy]

Yes, see, NOW you are saying treason and earlier you were saying traitor. I am glad we're in agreement that the two are not synonymous. Me saying someone is a traitor does not mean I am accusing them of treason.

Words are tricky things. We use different ones for the same things depending on the spin we want to give them. If Snowden had actually started killing Americans in large numbers with his own two hands and we weren't particularly ashamed of what he was doing we might even call him a "rebel" or "Confederate."

Head of state is effectively the state.

That runs against the American perspective on government to the best of my knowledge. If other Americans see it differently I'd be curious as to what spin they have on it.

 

[Rashiminos]

In the vein of the title:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ort-to-spy-on-global-networks-a-940969-3.html

Take, for example, when they intercept shipping deliveries. If a target person, agency or company orders a new computer or related accessories, for example, TAO can divert the shipping delivery to its own secret workshops. The NSA calls this method interdiction. At these so-called "load stations," agents carefully open the package in order to load malware onto the electronics, or even install hardware components that can provide backdoor access for the intelligence agencies. All subsequent steps can then be conducted from the comfort of a remote computer.

Line crossed... Yes/No?

 

[peter grimes]

If this hardware is being delivered to another government, then No.

If the hardware is shipping to a private citizen or retail point of sale? Definitely.

 

[Takhisis]

Spying is a type of attack. If you spy on your own population then you're viewing them as enemies.

 

[Zelig]

Line crossed... Yes/No?

It's fine if they get a warrant from a non-secret court.

Anyway, standard operating procedure for individuals running illicit operations for years has already been to purchase standard laptop from retail stores in person, with cash.