The End of Free Speech in Germany

Not quite. You may not be aware of this, but in Germany (unlike in Turkey or Russia) the executive has no business with the judiciary. In practical terms, if the government (as this is not a personal decision of the chancellor) would have said 'No, there is no reason to prosecute', the government is acting as the judiciary. Which it obviously shouldn't. That's the legal delicacy. The political delicacies include the fact that people - no matter how the government decides - will blame the government. As you clearly demonstrate. Even though the government has merely abstained from a decision. As it should. That covers the political delicacies - in part.

Secondly, the refugee deal agreed with Turkey should have nothing to do with this. Certainly Erdogan didn't mention it. But feel free to complicate things if they're not complex enough for you.
 
point is that in this particular instance it was not "no there is no reason to prosecute", or "yes there is reason to prosecute" but "yes it is in the interest of the German government to prosecute" (whic they chose) or "No it is not in the interest of the German government to prosecute" - that is the sole reason that provision even is in the law in question. Its a purely political question and has zero bearing on the division of power however much Merkel wants to make it about that by cloaking her political decision in one on principal about division of power. By the way her decision is not one about whether to allow prosecution anyways as Erdogan actually pressed charges as a private party anyways so it was merely to allow prosecution to go forward on an additional charge which theoretically could come with higher penalties.

Pretending that the Refugee deal had nothing to do with it does not make it so - the sole reason for the decision now is the political reality that the government does not feel it can allow itself to cross Erdogan publicly.
 
The latter sums up neatly the predicament I mentioned. However, seeing as this is basically an archaic law, the only choice to the government was whether to actually make a statement or not. Whichever way they chose, they'd get criticized. Whether the refugee deal - embarassing enough in itself - had anything to do with that decision is pure speculation. I don't personally support Merkel's recent attitude or policy change, but that's quite beside the point.

The bottom line is: Erdogan will have his prosecution. (Which, in all likelihood, will result in absolutely nothing.) Had the administration chosen to disallow prosecution, it would, in fact, have taken a similar stand as Erdogan himself in Turkey does. However, things work a little differently in German. As Mr private person Erdogan is likely to find out.

The detail of the administration having 'a say' in judicial affairs is entirely academical. Germany is not Turkey. Ergo, Merkel - despite opposition from the SPD - had little choice in the matter. In Germany the government doesn't interfere with the judiciary, even if it - still - has the discretion to do so. That's the key legal point.
 
This guy wrote a ridiculous article in the Daily Sabah, link below. First, he thinks the EU used criticism of the lack of press freedom to strongarm Turkey into the EU deal. Instead Europe was the one pushed into ignoring Turkey's human rights abuses to avoid another million people coming. If he thinks it's unfair of Turkey to house the majority of refugees, well why did Turkey agree to it? And the deal is very advantageous to Turkey.

Then he says Turkey has greater press freedom than USA. Yeah I'll believe that if the POTUS shuts down the New York Times like Erdoğan did with Zaman. And they recently blocked Sputnik news. Why? Are they saying Sputnik is a terrorist organization like their usual excuse for arresting journalists? Has America blocked presstv even though they are very anti-US?

And then he says the PYD and YPG are terrorists but Turkey is also against Assad. Like they want to have it both ways. There aren't enough Turkmen for Turkey to support to where they'll make gains against ISIS. Turkey could negotiate with the PKK to bring things to like they were before instead of the current problem which is devastating parts of the southeast.

http://www.dailysabah.com/op-ed/2016/04/16/is-press-freedom-under-attack-in-turkey
 
The detail of the administration having 'a say' in judicial affairs is entirely academical. Germany is not Turkey. Ergo, Merkel - despite opposition from the SPD - had little choice in the matter. In Germany the government doesn't interfere with the judiciary, even if it - still - has the discretion to do so. That's the key legal point.

It really sounds like you're not understanding the idea of prosecutorial discretion - a quintessential function of the executive. From what others have said, that discretion is explicitly given to the government in relation to this law. There is no interference with the judicial branch by exercising that discretion.
 
It really sounds like you're not understanding the idea of prosecutorial discretion - a quintessential function of the executive.

Prosecutorial discretion is, obviously, at the discretion of the prosecutor, not the executive. The fact that this particular - outdated - law makes an exception to that, as you say, quintessential discretion, is precisely why it's outdated.

In lay terms: it's not the government's prerogative to prosecute or not to prosecute. That is a matter for the prosecutors. That this particular law hands the government a special prerogative by way of exception, does not imply the government should take it. That is at the discretion of the government. The government decided not to exercise its - exceptional - prerogative. Given the idea of separation of powers, this is, legally speaking, the only correct decision. It is, may be assumed, primarily for this reason that this particular law is scheduled to be abolished.

From what others have said, that discretion is explicitly given to the government in relation to this law. There is no interference with the judicial branch by exercising that discretion.

On the contrary, that is precisely what would be the case should the executive have chosen to exercise its prerogative.

As has been mentioned with regard to the FBI request to provide a backdoor to an Apple iPhone, there's no such thing as a 'one time only' action when it comes to law. Every legal action sets a possible precedent. This would be an additional reason for the abolishment of such a law.

But more to the point, the fact that a law gives the government discretion does not negate the fact that it breaches the separation of powers. Which is, in fact, what this law allows. The government, in my opinion wisely, chose to ignore this executive discretion - which is quite something else than prosecutorial discretion. The latter belongs, as the term already implies, with the prosecution.

Summing up, the issue seems to be seeing this particular law not in the wider context of law. Or rather, in this particular case, people would like the German government to have made a political decision to the effect of not allowing prosecution altogether. Admirable though that may be, from a legal point of view it would not have been correct. That Merkel takes the blame for not making a legal decision (to prosecute or not to prosecute) political, is the obvious effect of this. But the two should not be confused: from the point of view of legal consistency this was the right decision - politically 'incorrect' though it may be.

Seeing as people have also suggested Merkel folding in view of the refugee deal with Turkey, perhaps it is of interest to remind of Merkel's initial stance when faced with this 'refugee crisis': she welcomed refugees - with the result of taking the political backlash from our xenophobic good citizens. We now see Merkel also taking the political blame form politically correct good citizens. It would appear Merkel can do no good whatever her stance. Yet in all this Merkel has been the one with the correct principle: there is no legal right to refuse refugees. On the contrary: there is a legal obligation to welcome refugees. It is ironic to see Merkel then take the blame for an arrangement she rather would not have, but has been forced to uphold in force of upstanding xenophobic Europeans who have no clue about the 'European values' they claim are being threatened. It's neither refugees nor Erdogan threatening European values: it's Europeans themselves, forgetting the very values which are the foundation of the political union that is the EU.

But of course, none of that is a legal matter. Or is it?
 
Merkel is quite clearly the worst chancellor of post-war Germany. And the most saddening aspect is that she'll get another reelection in 2017. I can't believe that everyone is still cheering her despite the all the policy blunders and massive damage she's done to Germany.
 
^I can't believe she was hailed as the best thing back when the only thing different from now was that she did not cause issues to her uber-racist vassals ;)
 
Merkel is quite clearly the worst chancellor of post-war Germany. And the most saddening aspect is that she'll get another reelection in 2017. I can't believe that everyone is still cheering her despite the all the policy blunders and massive damage she's done to Germany.

As much as it pains me, I have to disagree. Merkel is really, really bad, but I'm not sure she's as bad as Kohl who didn't do anything to integrate the "guest workers" and completely messed up the economic transformation of East Germany. Or Schröder who practically abolished the social market economy and should be in prison for violating the constitution with Germany's participation in the Kosovo war.
Merkel has mishandled almost every important issue that came up during her leadership, but I think she deserves at least some credit for reforming her party to the point that the CDU is now "almost not reactionary" on social issues, and getting rid of some of the most deplorable members (Roland Koch, Friedrich Merz...).

Let me reiterate: Merkel is really, really bad, but it could be worse.
And I wouldn't be so sure she'll get another term. I think the refugee flip-flop and the Böhmermann affair will cost her personally , and the CDU will continue to lose veotes to ehe AfD.
 
Yes, let's have some more opinions: according to Bild am Sonntag 66 % of Germans disagrees with the government's decision and only 22 % has understanding for it. Interestingly, most commentators in German media conclude that legally this is the right procedure. Understanding seems to be the keyword here.

It's a good thing laws aren't made by popular opinion.

Oops, forgot to mention some more facts: Mr Erdogan has had 1,800 prosecuted since august 2014, according to German TV station ZDF. That amounts to roughly 3 per day.
 
As much as it pains me, I have to disagree. Merkel is really, really bad, but I'm not sure she's as bad as Kohl who didn't do anything to integrate the "guest workers" and completely messed up the economic transformation of East Germany. Or Schröder who practically abolished the social market economy and should be in prison for violating the constitution with Germany's participation in the Kosovo war.
Merkel has mishandled almost every important issue that came up during her leadership, but I think she deserves at least some credit for reforming her party to the point that the CDU is now "almost not reactionary" on social issues, and getting rid of some of the most deplorable members (Roland Koch, Friedrich Merz...).
...And thereby destroying the German party system and alienating millions of right wing voters. Look, the most recent state elections resulted in massive gains for a new force to the right of CDU/CSU despite rising turnout. That's unheard of. I don't think the media have properly reflected over this. We're witnesses of a transformation (or destruction) of our party system wih great consequences. Merkel is locking Germany in an endless grand coalition, where voting doesn't matter anymore because there's no room for party competition anymore. Whatever you vote for, you'll get a super coalition of CDU/CSU, SPD and Greens. And they are all more than happy to share the honey pot together. A few more years of this, and Germany will look like Austria or France. Unlike you I believe the CDU desperately needs people like Merz. Much like the SPD needs the Lafontaine's of this world.

A few years ago, I might have agreed with you. But the scale of the mess she created in Euro area politics and in this refugee crisis and the long term political, economic and social consequences of her actions dwarf all the bad stuff Kohl and Schröder ever did. When Merkel's house of cards collapses one day, she (and we?) may be lucky and it happens after her retirement, things will get really, really bad.

The only thing that can stop Merkel from getting reelected is a coup within the CDU. But CDU leaders didn't have the guts to do it so far and I doubt they ever will. The SPD is dead, and with what they do, deservedly so. Thus the "Social Democrats" will never finish ahead of the CDU in 2017. And if CDU/CSU and SPD don't manage to get 50 % of the seats in the Bundestag, the Greens will happily join the coalition. It would be an honest move as Merkel essentially has become a member of the Green party.
 
Pretending that the Refugee deal had nothing to do with it does not make it so - the sole reason for the decision now is the political reality that the government does not feel it can allow itself to cross Erdogan publicly.

Bot bother. Agent327 is very good at pretending, and trying to sweet-talk people into whatever the "western establishment" finds convenient. Which changes just as often as Eurasia and Oceania switche alliances in that satirical book. But be a good citizen and pretend you don't notice that. I keep wondering which agency he works for.

Damn, I risk sounding like r16.

A few years ago, I might have agreed with you. But the scale of the mess she created in Euro area politics and in this refugee crisis and the long term political, economic and social consequences of her actions dwarf all the bad stuff Kohl and Schröder ever did. When Merkel's house of cards collapses one day, she (and we?) may be lucky and it happens after her retirement, things will get really, really bad.

And it's not just in Germany, France is even more advanced down that path. The UK may yet avert it. But Europe is headed for a lot of social and political conflict, grand coalitions won't keep a lid on the discontentment that is brewing already into revolt. The question is just who will eventually manage to channel that...
 
Merkel is very sympathetic and this making many people (not just Germans) blind. Even when people completely disagree with her, they still hope that she will change her opinion in time.
 
She's also a good politician though.

And by that I mean she knows how to change her opinions to whatever they need to be to resonate with her voters.

Well, she used to have that skill at least..
 
Bot bother. Agent327 is very good at pretending, and trying to sweet-talk people into whatever the "western establishment" finds convenient. Which changes just as often as Eurasia and Oceania switche alliances in that satirical book. But be a good citizen and pretend you don't notice that. I keep wondering which agency he works for.

First time I've heard presenting facts called 'sweet-talking'. But I've noticed text analysis isn't your forte, so soit.

I note you have not a single comment on what was actually said. Thanks so much for your ...informed opinion.
 
It would be an honest move as Merkel essentially has become a member of the Green party.
Despite all the right wing tears, no she hasn't.
 
Despite all the right wing tears, no she hasn't.

Hmm.
The CDU is turning into an only slightly more conservative FDP and the Greens have been a slightly more environmentalist FDP since the turn of the millennium.
They all kind of blend together into a melange of only superficially different businesses-before-people factions.
 
what's wrong with sounding like r16 ? ı certainly like my silent , like almost dignified approach to stuff . Say , the newspaper link which has been found like curious . It's standart in Turkey where everybody is against the country ; despite the fact that those enemies of the country does nothing against the A-K-P , like ever ...

germans have joined the chorus of giving another victory to the Party . It's insulting we hear here and now that my German is unused since 1989 during which ı was a rather bad student at high school or maybe 93 during which ı was a terrible university student , can't tell myself . So when the PM is insulted , the New Turkey calls on the evil enemies who plot the downfall of the country . Hence the country is owned by the Party this means the evil enemies like face the fury of the Party and they fall back . All the resistance Berlin ever offered to Ankara was a police raid on the biggest br_thel in Europe due to charges of tax evasion and the like . And this is straight from an hardcore opposition newspaper which implies there's a link to Ankara and offers no proof except rather weak innuendo . It's fear , not love that keeps the Party . Not only in charge but together as well .

merkel could have said to ignore it and it would be ignored and the refugee deal would be upheld . Do you know that to support the refugee deal Ankara allows Greeks "invading" islands in the Aegean which are like Turkish territory by treaty and not mere claims ? At least they are sacking officials who declare on the social media that the best Turk is a dead Turk . Apparently the tours to the islands start from 52 € per head ...
 
Hmm.
The CDU is turning into an only slightly more conservative FDP and the Greens have been a slightly more environmentalist FDP since the turn of the millennium.
They all kind of blend together into a melange of only superficially different businesses-before-people factions.
I disagree, the political platforms of the parties are still quite distinct. It's more that the electorate has been lulled into a sense of complacency where politically the only winning move is not to play, and Merkel is the master of not moving. The success of this strategy in turn has further imposed this political climate on the system.

So the differences are minimized because the current climate brings people to the fore who de-emphasize them.
 
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